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WTF? AvP just melted my SVS! (1 Viewer)

DanielKellmii

Supporting Actor
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Messages
523


Guys, the "box" is what got me in trouble in the first place. ;)

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Spoilers Follow
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But really, it is terrific. But I want the cylider because it does so much for so little. The cube is ideal, but it just doesn't have the same WOW factor as a large tube. Next on the list is a new entertainment center and a 3rd child. Oy!!!
 

Edward J M

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Messages
2,031
I watched this movie over the weekend in DTS 5.1. My system is calibrated with Avia to Dolby Reference Level at Master Volume 0.0. My subwoofer is calibrated for a flat response (relative to the mains) in the 30-200 Hz region. I do have some room gain below 30 Hz, though.

I used Master Volume -14, which was quite loud (DTS tracks tend to run a few dB hotter than their DD counterparts anyway).

While the nuke was impressive, the hottest bassy scene in the movie is actually in the opener (I didn't grab a time stamp, sorry). It's just a friggin' huge moody bass hit (i.e., not an explosion or a bomb, etc.).

While it really didn't tax the PB12-Ultra/2 in the 20 Hz tune, it did rattle the drywall behind the subwoofer, the protective screen on the HDTV, and various other small objects across the room. I know from experience when a bassy scene rattles most things in the room, it's pushing 115 dB at the listening position.

So I would say AVP is mastered extremely hot, and that reference level playback for this DVD (at least with the DTS track) can be achieved at around MV -14, if your system is calibrated to Dolby RL with Avia at MV 0.0.

Again, AVP is another good example of a DVD in which the overall playback level is really mastered on the hot side, AND is has a few massive bass hits to boot.

This type of DVD would be extremely taxing on any single 12" woofer at MV -8, and Tom V was pretty spot-on - I think you would be pushing 120+ dB (if the sub could deliver it uncompressed) on bassy peaks at that volume setting.

Again, the signs of dynamic compression should be obvious before the woofer clacks itself into oblivion, but I can see how this DVD could catch someone off guard. ;)

Regardless, I would say the original poster is a good candidate for dual co-located CS+ with the SVS01 black box infrasonic filter set to 20 Hz (actually kicks in about 19 Hz). This will buy another 6 dB of headroom after recalibration, and considerably more resistance to bottoming from spurious infrasonics present below 15 Hz.

Overall, I think the Crown K1 (great amp choice BTW) at 550 watts into 4 ohms is a good match for the dB12 woofer, but this is a very gutsy amp with tons of clean power (Crown typically underrates its amps) that can smoke just about any single 12" woofer if you really put the pedal to it.

I think you would be very happy with an upgrade to dual CS+ and the Marchand Bass Box. Clean headroom is hard to describe until you experience it, but it sounds like you are a true Subhuman, and that means serious woofage, even in a small room. :emoji_thumbsup:
 

Ilkka R

Second Unit
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
270
Real Name
Ilkka
Ed, thank you for this post. It's funny how many people think that RL is the RL, no matter what movie they are watching. *Many* soundtracks are mastered extremely hot (especially DTS tracks), I mean +10dB's, so it would be very disasterous playing these tracks at RL! AvP is one of the worst examples...

The whole RL idea loses it meaning when people who are mastering these things don't do their jobs properly. Basically this is a race of the "loudest" soundtrack. :frowning:
 

John S

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2003
Messages
5,460
That is an excellent point Ilkka R....

I find more and more, the engineers on many soundtraks don't take it near serious enough and are generally all over the place. New movies seem to be the worst offenders. I love the "Race to the loudest soundtrack" comment... so true...
 

Edward J M

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Messages
2,031
If your subwoofer is calibrated flat or near flat, and the vocals are hovering at 75-80 dB, and the bass peaks are at 112-113 dB (c-weighted fast), then you are listening at Dolby Reference Level, no matter what the master volume says.

While I support calibration to DRL with Avia because it provides a baseline we can all benchmark against, we cannot control the DVD mastering level. If people want to see how their preferred playback level compares to DRL, then they need to break out the sound meter instead of simply referencing the master volume setting.

Underworld is probably the worst offender I've come across recently. My system is calibrated to DRL at MV 0.0, and I can't comfortably listen to Underworld at more than about -15 MV setting.
 

Ilkka R

Second Unit
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
270
Real Name
Ilkka
Ed, I understand what you are saying, but RS is not good enough for those fast peaks. When I measured the PB10 I noticed that on fast peaks RS shows 2-4dB less (compensated of course) than what the true level is. So for RS right reference level would be around 108-110dB. Actually sounds do not have to be kicks etc. I was testing with Finding Nemo, submarine and Darla scene where I noticed that.

With a proper SPL-meter (e.g. B&K) that 112-113dB (c,fast) is quite accurate.

This why I would love to see more Matrix, SW1 type of mastered movies. Those RL is the true RL.
 

Jan H

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2001
Messages
2,007
Whatever the problem with your driver is, you're in good hands with Tom, Ron and SVS. I've been a customer for 4 years, through various upgrades, and these guys' customer service is unsurpassed in the home audio world. No worries!
 

Edward J M

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Messages
2,031

Good point Ilkka. The RS meter is a great tool for general balancing and calibration and no self respecting HT aficionado should be without one. But no one should kid themselves that this $35 meter will accurately reflect SPL peaks in the 110-115 dB range. There have seen several reports of bizarre RS meter readings (both low and high), when compared to reference quality sound meters like the B&K.

With that said, breaking out the SPL meter (even the RS meter) to determine the "approximate" playback levels for vocals and bass peaks is certainly still better than believing some arbitrary setting on the MV control is somehow equal to "X clicks from Reference Level". If all DVDs were carefully mastered to the exact same playback level, it would be a totally different story, but we know that is just wishful thinking. :)

This big disparity in DVD mastering levels certainly does diminish the relative importance of calibrating with Avia to 85 dB at MV 0.0. Channel balancing - yes - critical without question. But 85 dB at MV 0.0? Not as important anymore......and you can blame the recording studios.
 

Himanshu_S

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 24, 2002
Messages
93
chris_everett,

Shouldn't the sub be able to handle reference level? I am not running my PB10 at reference level but I thought it would be able to handle the reference level.

Thanks!

Edit: actually, I think this question should be answered by SVS.
 

Rory Buszka

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jun 5, 2002
Messages
784
To prevent this in the future, instead of getting a replacement Plus driver, get an Ultra driver. It should have way more peak power handling and linear excursion capability and is designed to be a direct drop-in replacement.
 

VinhT

Second Unit
Joined
Feb 14, 2002
Messages
357
Isn't this just a classic case of customer abuse? Not even using a proper infrasonic filter? Come on! I'm actually a bit disgusted that SVS covers such negligence, since it isn't even remotely their fault.
 

John S

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2003
Messages
5,460
Hmm.. Am I supposed to be putting this on all non-powered subs with external power amps? Man I have done a ton of these setups, and not one have I added a filter on.


Educate me please!!
 

JasonRabb

Grip
Joined
May 17, 2004
Messages
24
Hey gang, just a shout out to all of you for the assistance on this forum getting people up and running. I found it really wonderful to browse the forum (while at work, hehehe) and get my sound meter working and tuning up my new HSU sub with my B&W's. This is really a great place to meet, learn and explore the joys of home theatre. It also is a wonderful venue to get out those home theatre jitters..."if i plug this in like this will i mess it up?" A big overall thanks and cheers!

-Jason R.
 

John S

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2003
Messages
5,460
So did we ever get a resolve to the speaker issue on this one?? Would love to know how it all worked out in the end.

And/or did he play the movie again? Results?
 

Eric Hargrove

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Nov 24, 2001
Messages
153
I somewhat agree with VinhT. It appears Chris was asking a bit much from his sub but this is also what makes SVS such a great company to deal with. For those of us willing to take a chance, there are many Internet based companies that offer far more bang for the buck than the average brick and mortar store. Knowing that a company will back me up even when I admit to making a mistake is reassuring. I would agree with Edward on this one, Chris is definitely a candidate for a second CS+ and the blackbox is more useful than you might think. Highly recommended!
 

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