WOW! You guys weren't BSing. One of the best tweaks I have ever implemented. (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Beverly]

another BIG believer in mattes... i have a 16:9 set, and i recently made mattes for watching 4:3 material. i just do not like some programming in stretch modes - especially sporting events.
the mattes have made all the difference in the world. mine are made out of black foam core with velcro... this weekend i will be making mattes for 2.35:1 DVDs!!!
don't knock it - it is a dramatic difference!

 

[Parker Clack]

I used black curtains and mattes on my front projection layout (the same one that Mike Knapp uses) and it really makes the picture stand out.
But this is what theaters have done with film forever. Take a look at any theater screen and they have the film masked off that the top, bottom and sides. I figured if they do it for film why not video. Nice to see this simple tweak adding so much.
Burke, I made a system that I could adjust the mask by lowering a top roller and raising a bottom roller to mask off the bars I needed to. I made a frame (painted flat black) the size of my screen image ( 6ft by 8ft ) and put stops about an inch apart up and down the frame. I would then just unroll the top on to the point I needed and attached it to one of the stops on each side and pulled up the bottom one and attached it to the other stops. I used curtain material and found that pleated material works better than a flat material with a front projection system.
I think I spent about $75 on it back in '88.
While we are talking about RPTV sets doesn't the new Sony HS series not output any video signal to the screen when no signal is present. In other words no greys but pure black because there isn't a video signal to the screen in the area of the "black bars"?
Parker
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[Brian Fineberg]

Where can I get the black foam you are reffereing to to make my mates. I think this sounds great and I want to try it but I am clueless on where to purchase the stuff. Help!!
-Brian

 

[Deane Johnson]

Wow Burke! You just made my day. I have a remote control, motorized masking system on my front projection screen and it cost me about $600. Eight randomly selectable aspect ratios (constant width, variable height) at the push of a button on my remote.
Let's see now, $600 vs $35,000. That's markup.
Deane

 

[Philip Hamm]

However, I find it mind boggling that something like that would be "the talk of the meet" and be more talked about than the other aspects of a HT. Crazy. I honestly can't fathom it making that much of a difference unless the set is waaaaaay off in the brightness and contrast level.

Actually my RPTV is as close to reference as it can possibly get. ISF Calibrated by none other than Louis Carliner. Still makes a huge difference. I was never the kind who was distracted by the black bars, I find them easy to ignore and am not distracted by them. I only use the mattes for "critical" movie watching. If I had a 16x9 TV I probably woul dnot bother making small mattes for 2.35:1 material. I heard about the mattes about two or three years before I finally tried it. When I tried it I wished I hadn't waited so long. The big thing they do as far as I'm concerned is they make the picture look bigger. This is important as my main seating area is far from my 50" NTSC (the TV is too small for the room, but the good thing is scan lines disappear at that distance

). Not having the black bars somehow fools the brain into percieving a larger picture.
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Philip Hamm
AIM: PhilBiker
Thsnks to all who came to my meet the 13th. Thanks especially to Andrej for bringing the SVS, Frank for the mouse pads and mugs, and for Phil for the "Phantom Menace" LaserDisc, which blew everyone away! No thanks to the gremlins who fiddled with my DTS decoder settings before the meet! Pictures coming soon!

 

[Dan M~]

>When I read 'Mattes', I though it said "mates", as in "Hey >there mates, look what I did".
Ditto!

 

[Jeff Beverly]

brian -
you can get black foam core at any art supply store. i got a 30"x40" piece for under $7. i cut the mattes to size with a matte cutter, and i attached the mattes to the television with velcro. very easy - very effective.
good luck!

 

[Brian Fineberg]

Thanks Jeff... I am out the door!!!

 

[Derrick_Ellis]

Okay, looks like I have a new project. $7 is sure cheaper than a 16:9 TV!
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Derrick Ellis
www.djderricke.com
[email protected]

 

[RichMiller]

Just wanted to put in my $0.02 and agree.
I've got a dinky 27" Philips Magnavox TP2785CI direct-view, and it can do the "squeeze," but it leaves a flashy white line of garbage at the new top of the raster when squeezed.
It was mainly to hide the flashy line that I went out and grabbed a $2.50 sheet of black construction cardboard at my local Kroger to make my mattes, but once I got them installed (with some Velcro I had lying around the house), I realized what a huge difference even this cheap expedient made. Nothing, save calibrating properly and discovering the squeeze itself, has made a greater difference in my enjoyment of non-4:3 material.
Try it!
-Rich
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Technophilia is like hemophilia...
In both cases bleeding oneself dry is a danger.

 

[Scott McGillivray]

Well, consider me one of the "converted". I tried it out last night and am very happy with the results. I used black "Mactac". It works great! It even had a measurement grid on the back for easy cutting. I made two strips, attached the stick-on velcro and "presto", it made a huge difference. It is very quickly and easily put on and also easily adjustable.
One interesting note was the my friend thought I should also cover up the three LEDs that can be seen from my two subs and the TV itself. I may try that.
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Scott A. McGillivray
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan
"There is nothing wrong with you that I can't fix...with my hands." - Batman
Link Removed

 

[Patrick Sun]

Well, seeing is believing. On my crappy RPTV, the black bars are not richly black, they are a tad like faded black, so using the mattes to totally fill in this area with total blackness enriches the colors from the letterboxed video presentation. The mattes give me a little bit more use out of my RPTV (I wish it would just die so I could have an excuse to buy another TV). Also, I have a little bit of red bleed on the lower left hand side of the screen (no amount of convergence gets rid of the bleeding), and the mattes allow me to cover 1/8" of the bleeding and this is more pleasing to the eyes while watching films.
Sorry if my photos don't show the vast improvement (I just brighten up both pix to get consistent video material to show where the bars become dark gray without the mattes - 1/19/01), but it's definitely worth for $10 for the tweak, and it's not going to break the bank if you try the mattes and wind up not using them. Here's a direct link to my homemade mattes.
Without Mattes . You should see gray bars, not black ones.
With Mattes . You should see totally black bars.
The mattes don't quite work with my TPM LD due to the yellow Japanese subtitles causing a halo effect on the bottom of the letterboxed video from the light reflection off the mattes and it is more distracting than the subtitles themselves.
(Updated 1/19/01)
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PatCave ; HT Pix ; Gear ; Sunosub I + III ; DVDs ; Link Removed

 

[Sean_B]

I would think if you're television is calibrated right with Avia or Video Essentials the black bars are blacker than black. It is at least on my direct view toshiba. There is no need to hide the bars as they aren't seen.
just my .02
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//indcri//e

 

[Cees Alons]

Dustin,

...Mike, I'm sure that Cees was hoping you would keep that between just you and him.

LOL!
Yeah, another disappointment..
Mike,
Thanks for bringing it up.. reminds me of those days.. and makes me realize how unfortunate it is that I cannot make it to your BBQ last week of March. I would have loved to attend!
I tried to find the time, but we have some changes going on at my work, so I'm uhmmm, needed in the shark pond my office these days.
Cees

 

[Andy_S]

After reading this thread I popped in a movie (Jaws) to see what the black bars looked like. I never really paid any attention to them, but I thought I'd check it out. I have a 36" Toshiba tube TV and it has been calibrated using Avia. I noticed in the dark scenes the bars were not noticeable at all, but during bright scenes they were slightly brighter and more noticeable. I'm not sure what is causing it, perhaps the glass itself causes some of the light to refract and spread into the black bars? Whatever the case may be, I ran out today during lunch and bought some black foam-core poster board and velcro. I'm sure my wife is going to roll her eyes at this little project. Oh well, I'll just tell her that it was either this or a $7000 HDTV!
Oh, and for those who are bothered by the LED on their TV's, why not put a piece of black electrical tape over it? That's the first thing I did when I pulled the TV out of the box! I also did it to my DVD player, but I put a tiny pin-prick in it so I can see if the player is on (I have a Toshiba that allows you to turn the display off, so if there's no LED I can never be sure whether the unit is off or not).
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[MickeS]

I've been thinking about making some mattes. A few questions:
1. Are all movies of the same aspect ratio always located in the same spot on the TV, so you can have a fixed matte size for, say, 2.35:1 movies, and know that you can put it in the same spot every time you watch a 2.35:1 movie? Or do you have to manually adjust the matte for each movie (which seems rather tedious)?
2. Isn't it annoying to see the left and right sides of the TV between the top and bottom mattes? Or do you also put mattes on there?
Thanks,
Mike

 

[Cees Alons]

Mike (S),
No garantee in that department. And yes, it looks nicer if the mattes are all around.
So:
(1) The left and right mattes will always be in the same place (because the image will always be as wide as your screen) You can make something that fits exactly (and is simple to put on).
(2) Two horizontal mattes should be adjustable (e.g. fixed to the other part with two velcron bands).
Thus, your viewing area can ALWAYS be made to fit the actual movie. Remember that some films have their subtitles in the movie, some below the actual film frame!
Good luck,
Cees

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

I would think if you're television is calibrated right with Avia or Video Essentials the black bars are blacker than black. It is at least on my direct view toshiba. There is no need to hide the bars as they aren't seen.

False.
No set is perfect at holding BLACK AT BLACK. None, not even video monitors for production facilities. They are really good, but not perfect.
Now, home TVs, especially RPTV, cannot hold absolute black when relative picture level is light. No matter how much calibrating or talk of "blacker than black" you do, it simply cannot hold it perfect. Cannot.
The color of black is completely influenced by the surround white level of a picture. Even on a direct view Toshiba (which I own by the way), the black level shifts quite a few degrees of the picture content is completely white vs. if it is completely black.
Unless you spent $100,000 on your Toshiba direct view, it isn't perfect at holding black at black. I guess it all comes down to how sensitive your eyes are to the variances. I for one notice them, and mattes solve the problem.
Vince
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[Max Leung]

Would adding a hood and lining with Duvetyne help make the bars more "true black"?

I haven't tried that tweak yet...it might help, but probably not much (due to the limitations of the optics design in an RPTV...you still get reflections within the lens assembly itself that can't be corrected).
Too bad no one can do ISF in your area...although some calibrationists do tours once in a while (Micheal_TLV, Louis Carliner, etc. etc. check the rest of the forum).
You may even consider renting a colorimeter, such as the CA-1, and do the calibration yourself (a PC is required). See Link Removed .

 

[Ron-P]

So how could I attach it to my 35" tube TV, as picture tube is curved, the matte would not lay flat across the screen. Would I notice the gap at each end if I ran the matte straight across. Or, does someone have a nifty idea for attaching it to a curved screen.
Peace Out~

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