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Would You Care if 2nd Disc SE Features were SD?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Paul_Scott, Feb 10, 2006.

  1. Paul_Scott

    Paul_Scott Well-Known Member

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    I'm going back and forth on whether i should pick up some enticing looking 2 disc SEs from Warner. I would rather wait for the HD version, but if the HD version arrives with few of the SE features ported over and at higher premium, i'm torn as to whether it will be worth it as a casual fan of a certain film.

    then i got to thinking, how much of a premium would it be to just press double the amount of the second, supplemental discs and bundle the excess with the HD version of the film.
    surely not going to the trouble of authoring 2 seperate discs in two seperate formats would help keep the cost down somewhat...wouldn't it?

    would you care if special features for these films were only available in standard definition editions for a while?

    i'm figuring most people in this particular forum could probably care less about special features anyway (i'm of a like mind most of the time as well)- but i will admit that on casual interest material, they do help sway me one way or the other.
     
  2. Daniel-M

    Daniel-M Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't matter to me.
     
  3. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Well-Known Member

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    For me it's always about the movie presentation first and foremost...

    but...

    my preference would be for "extras" on HD discs to be hi-def when possible.

    Think of what those documentaries on LOTR would look like in full 1080!
     
  4. Mark Lucas

    Mark Lucas Well-Known Member

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    Documentaries could be in SD since that's what most of them are shot and mastered in, but deleted scenes, trailers, and production material should be presented in HD at least.
     
  5. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Well-Known Member

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    To elaborate on that point...

    *legacy* SD documentaries should be presented in native SD form...let your own gear up-convert and don't let the studios do a (bad) job at trying to "fake" HD out of what was SD video to start with.

    But *new* documentaries made after the launch of HD media ought to be SHOT in HD. If the studio chooses to only create SD documentaries, then that's a problem. Documentaries ought to be shot 16x9 HD from this point forward if the studio gives a darn. Footage from people's video cams is exempt from this rule...but "profession" full-length documentaries that are *not* shot in HD are not taking advatantage of what they ought to.

    BTW, most of the documentaries for LOTR sets were shot in HD, and downconverted to 16x9 SD for the DVD release.
     
  6. Rob_Walton

    Rob_Walton Well-Known Member

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    I'm hoping for slightly more intuitive use of extras on this new format. So instead of the endless and repetitive stream of making-a-film docs (only really of interest on older movies, in my opinion) we should hopefully get more tangential material which relates to (and elaborates on) key plot elements. Jaws should have a documentary on Sharks, or the evolution of underwater photography. Lawrence of Arabia could have a piece on the war as it really was back then, or one on the history of British involvement in the area. Star Wars movies of course would have to be about toy manufacture, or perhaps how models are always better than digital effects! Since many docs of these types use film they'd look a good deal better in HD than SD. Unfortunately though something tells me we're set to get more of the same old same old...
     
  7. Paul.S

    Paul.S Well-Known Member

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    Not sure that's accurate.

    I think the issue of whether we get "legacy" supps at all is going to be a vexing one. I agree that new docus should be shot hi def and presented that way on the DVD. Indeed, I think some of the sharper producers started shooting their docus HD a coupla years ago (i.e., I think Charlie de L.'s work on Gladiator: EE and BHD: Deluxe, yesh?).

    But will we even get significant supps in the first wave of HD releases? I can see the studios releasing bare bones discs, positing that the premium element of the first wave is the fact that they're HD releases and holding off on supps for unfortunately a couple of years. And I think that approach would be justified by the flawed notion that vidphiles/early adopters aren't interested in supps. I want both the HD movie and all legacy supps the first time around but I'm bracing for disappointment and complicated collection decisions in terms of having to hang onto SD SEs due to a 'naked" HD release.

    Given the storage capacity of the HD formats (not to mention aesthetics and media storage space issues), I'd be less than interested in an approach wherein most/all HD releases are mated with a SD disc for the supps.
     
  8. Ryan Peddle

    Ryan Peddle Well-Known Member

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    That is so ridiculous for studios to think this way. I am certainly not a videophile, but I definitely consider home theater and DVD/movies to be a serious hobby. Considering I have 300+ dvd's and many of them I have waited beyond the first release simply to avoid double dipping. So when it comes to having bare bones HDDVD/Bluray discs, ESPECIALLY when there are dvd versions already out that have extras...that ticks me right off. Perfect example is Batman Begins. It is a recently released title on DVD which had simultaneous releases of 1 disc and 2 disc version. Now why can't they either do the same of the new formats or just take the supps on the dvd release and port it over to the new format. My blood is boiling at all these easy to solve issues.
     
  9. Mark Zimmer

    Mark Zimmer Well-Known Member

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    Considering a lot of studios still like to put extras on DVD in nonanamorphic widescreen, I'm not putting a lot of faith in the notion of HD extras being a given. But I'd expect better presentation from things like LOTR where the director is actively interested in the DVD experience.
     
  10. Mark Lucas

    Mark Lucas Well-Known Member

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    How much do you want to bet that Paramount's titles still don't have the friggin trailer? [​IMG]
     
  11. PattyFraser

    PattyFraser Well-Known Member

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    As a LOTR fan with little cash to spare to buy into the new format right now what I would like to see is the previously unreleased material (deleted scenes, audition tapes, etc.) available on a seperate SD release-- a la the King Kong production diaries, so I could have access to that material without having to buy a new HD player for my component- only HDTV. But that ain't gonna happen.
     
  12. Shawn Perron

    Shawn Perron Well-Known Member

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    There are definitely 2 camps on this one.

    1) people that love extras
    2) people that could give a crap about extras and actually resent them when they take bits away from the main feature

    If the extras are all going to be on the same disc with the film, please please please don't waste bits for HD extras. If they get thier own disc, then HD extras would be cool.
     
  13. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Well-Known Member

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    Shawn,

    That's only a "problem" because DVD doesn't have enough bits to go around. Blu-ray has MORE than enough bits...and HD DVD may or may not depending on how much extras you're talking about (it's more like the DVD problem only in HD).

    That's why so many of us support blu-ray...have your perfect AV quality and eat your extras-cake too...all on one single disc!

    dave [​IMG]
     
  14. Shawn Perron

    Shawn Perron Well-Known Member

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    You are assuming that the studios won't just drop 4+ hours of extras onto a BD-25 or HD-DVD 30gig disc. In either of these cases, HD extras would lead to the same problem that DVD currently has. I know I saw one dual layer DVD that proudly bragged "with over 6 hours of extras"... this and the feature all on a DVD-9.

    In fact it's yet to be proven that the initial HD-DVD movies won't be shipping on 15gig discs. If they end up shipping single layer discs, HD extras will suck the life out of the bitrate.
     
  15. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Well-Known Member

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    Good point, but the "solution" isn't for them to use a *separate* disc as you first suggested...but rather to use the appropirately *dual-layered* disc option. Let's try to move away from the "2-disc" mentality when we think of fitting a feature and extras...once 50 gig blu-ray hits, that will be more than enough room for a full blown 1080P return of the king with HOURS of HD bonus material all on one disc.

    BTW, Disney has already said that they are "waiting" for 50 gig Blu-ray discs to arrive before they start issuing loaded SE BD releases...so they are addressing your fear of compromising the bit space of a 25 gig BD with too much bonus material.
     
  16. Shawn Perron

    Shawn Perron Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that Blu-Ray will mainly be single layer from the start. In a single layer situation using mpeg2 for video compression, I think HD extras are going to take away from the bitrate for the movie. A single layer HD-DVD will have even less room even if they don't use mpeg2.

    This time around, I'm not going to purchase any movie that they starve the bitrate on the main feature. HD should be a no compromise format from the start to avoid so many of the problems we had with DVD. Compromising the video quality of the discs defeats the very purpose of moving to HD. While extras can be nice to have, thier very name defines what they really are "extra".
     
  17. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you that I don't want bonus material to take anything away from feature-film quality.

    MPEG2 on a single-layer BD is great for a feature film (just like VC1 on HD DVD is great for a feature film) but doesn't leave gobbs of extra space for HD bonus items.

    However, the 25 gig limit of BD is only temporary...expect 50 gig to become available within a year of launch. And as I stated earlier, many studios *want* to use 50 gig discs for full-blown SEs to avoid the very kind of compromises you are concerned about. Disney has stated they they will WAIT for 50 gig for their loaded SE sets for this very reason. In other words, Disney is agreeing with you (how often can we say *that* about the studios...hehe).
     
  18. Paul.S

    Paul.S Well-Known Member

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    I prefer to call them by their original name "supplements." I'm eager to see the kind of work Jeffrey Schwarz and Charlie de L. will do in hi def.
     
  19. Rakesh.S

    Rakesh.S Well-Known Member

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    all i want is the movie in the best possible video and audio quality
     
  20. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Well-Known Member

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    All well and good. I think we *all* agree that AV quality of the feature film is *the* most important priority we all have.

    But comments like this:

    ...Still are trying to apply a "DVD mindset" to HD media.

    Folks...understand...a 50 gig Blu-ray disc has WAAAAYYY more than enough space for an artifact-free 1080P movie with lossess 24/96 audio *and* HD extras...with room to spare!

    As long as a studio does a decent job mastering/authoring...it's all ok. No need to say "no" to HD bonus material even on the same disc...just as long as the studio does it *right* and uses the proper codecs and disc-structure (dual layer BD) to make it happen.
     

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