Will you be rushing into the new Hi-Def formats in 2006? (1 Viewer)

[AaronMK]

It is more the DRM issues that I am waiting for the dust to settle on than the format war. Their attitude that DRM is a rule making tool as opposed to just a forensics or enforcement tool is unacceptable.

I am also a bit apprehensive about how the studios will use the interactive features. They already use the button prohibitions to try to force anti-piracy PSAs and trailers down our throats. I guess the "interactive version" would be a quiz on copyright law that must be successfully completed or a click wrap agreement the must be accepted before you can access the main menu.


Sans DRM and other studio crap:

The cost of Hi-Def for me is the cost of the capability to play content from all the studios, and the cost of the titles. My threshold would be $30 per title and $800 for combo player/combined cost of two players/player for format that wins the war.

A lot of people are saying that it isn't worth it to them because they don't have an HDTV. To me, it means being able to buy movies that are ready to take advantage of a future HDTV purchase, as opposed to buying more SD discs I would be tempted to replace, or not buying and enjoying movies in anticipation. So I guess my purchase threshold is really when replacement costs are greater than future proofing costs.

 

[Paul_Scott]

once again, asking people that do not currently possess the capability of taking advantage of either format, if they will be rushing out to buy into them, seems a little 'off' to me.

what value is derived from hearing someone who does not currently own a HD compliant display and/or who is not interested in purchasing one soon, say they are not going to buy decks and media they wouldn't be able to use anyway?

it would be one thing if the studios let loose a flood of hundreds of titles in the first waves and had thousands to choose from by the end of the year- but who is going to scrap thousands of dollars worth of gear just to watch a 1/2 dozen 'bloom off the rose' blockbusters of years past?

i think the studios should be hip to the fact that the majority of dvd fantics like those here, will not rush out to dump thousands of dollars on new gear just to watch a handful of titles.it would be a little more pertinet to see a poll that just sampled from people who actually have the capability now to take advantage of these to see how enthused they are, as its their buying habits that will determine the formats fates for the rest of you

 

[Craig W]

I am not jumping in this year, but I will probably go BluRay with the PS3 if it lives up to the hype.

 

[CraigF]

Paul_Scott: Generally I agree, but not re the question Ron asked. I bet MANY of us are strongly considering an equipment upgrade. Right now. Just don't want to get burned after a year, so are waiting to see the results beyond the talk. I've read here that there are people who bought displays a year ago that are not fully "compliant". Who needs the grief or disappointment? Let's see what they do, so we can make intelligent decisions. I say 2 years minimum. People have no excuse for getting burned when there's a *history* and the industry players aren't getting any more friendly.

[OT, Jeff Ulmer: I'm a bit dismayed to see Zardoz and T2 in the same thread. ]

 

[Jeff D Han]

I'm not interested in upgrading to hi-def any time soon.
I'm happy with my DVD collection right now, and as many
of you have said, the hardware and software would be
expensive and probably unreliable in the early stages.
If the software is being released as bare-bones, then
I definitely wouldn't be interested in buying (I like
to get loaded versions of my favorite films). I have spent
too much time and money in my library to start thinking
about chucking it in favor of hi-def (I know I would be
disappointed in most of my DVDs if I started getting
hi-def DVDs).

 

[Mark Lucas]

I will buy one of the first BRD-ROM drives. I've been bored of watching standard def dvds for the past few years and trying to make them look acceptable thru various advanced scaling methods has only added to my frustration. 480i scaled to 1080p is still 480i, just with the compression artifacts more visible.

Now, DVDs have been a great format for movies in their time. The mastering has dramatically improved from crummy D1 sourced transfers to full on hidef mastering. But it's still glorified digital NTSC. Laserdisc on a cd basically. Any closer than 1.5 screen heights and it gets ugly, and that's with the best material. I'm tired of sitting so far away!

 

[Joseph Bolus]

My current projector, an Infocus 4805, is a 480p native resolution device and does a beautiful job with component-fed SD-DVD. While my cable HD channels look stunningly better on this projector than SD cable, the difference between viewing say, Beverly Hills Cop on HBO-HD, and viewing the Beverly Hills Cop SD-DVD is minimal. The projector does provide a DVI input and, with an adapter cable available from Infocus, should be "good-to-go" for Blu-ray (which is the only format I'll ever consider purchasing); but right now I just don't "see" any benefit in upgrading.

I'll be replacing my Infocus 4805 with a 1080p consumer projector in July 2007 (or, perhaps, one of those new high-powered 3 LED-driven single-chip DLP RPTVs which should represent mature technology by then). At that point, if Blu-ray is the clear winner in the "War", I'll take the leap.

In the meantime, I'll continue to purchase all the SD-DVD's that I'm interested in. It's a given that any Blu-ray player that I may purchase in July 2007 will be backward-compatible with SD-DVD and will also provide more sophisticated upscaling than today's players, and a digital path to my new 1080p display device to boot.

It's a "no-brainer" to wait until at least then, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[MichaelScott]

I'm sitting it out, not so much that I'm waiting to see anything..but because towards the end of the year I realized I'm tired of having hundreds of dust collector's on my shelf. I'm in the process of selling off all the dead weight.

Being a mostly classic film fan these new formats do nothing to excite me all that much...most new movies are crap and not worth repeat viewings anymore any way..I mean really only the sick need to see Hostile in HD/Blu-Ray multiple times.

So what is there to be excited about?..gosh we get to hear all those new announcements of titles that weren't released all that long ago in regular DVD. Whoopee!!..now my enjoyment of the forums are less to have to weed through all the HD - Blu-Ray posts..whoopee!!

I read on the TCM that only 7% of classic films have been released on DVD(actually that may include VHS)..that won't change to much with HD as they will focus as ususal on important items like the 20th season of Survivor or whatever..as for the people that state, oh I can't enjoy DVD's anymore the quality is just so bad...please!!..stop it..it's embarrasing..you don't love movies or even care about them you just like your toys to impress.

 

[Barry_B_B]

Sorry, waiting for the dust to settle on this one...

 

[StephenP]

My plans are to wait for a 1080p projector in the $2k range before I jump in. In my opinion dvd's look pretty good on my flat panel display, but at 106" my projector shows their flaws. All this could go out the window if the ps3 launches with some hot games that I must have. So far not so much interest in the xbox360 with or without HD-dvd. I have all 3 current gen systems, but next time ps3 will be the only one I get I think. Not as much time for games as when I was a kid I guess, and Nintendo has let me down with games on the last 2 systems.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I'm getting my first HDTV this year. I'd like to be able to wait for the dust to settle, but my genes won't allow it. But I refuse to buy a dedicated player. I'm already getting a PS3. That'll give me a BR player as needed. I have an XBOX 360, so I'll get the HD DVD player for that (assuming it's priced < $300). From there, I'll see where we go. It *IS* going to affect my DVD buying habits, though. I'd love to early adopt, but I don't know the future, and I don't like to gamble.

 

[Leo Kerr]

I think Ron has an excellent reason for this poll, but should be encouraged for the Studio-Heads who might not actually want to read all of the posts, to ask a second poll.

Point 1: The poll is relavant, even if most of us don't have compliant hardware to start with, because, for the most part, we are the early adopters. And as I type this, 82% of early adopters give a resounding "Pass!" This should tell some hardware and software people that just because it says HD doesn't mean we're going to go out and snap it up.

Something that should occur to some of these people is, because we are the early adopters, means that we've already spent large amounts on allegedly "HD Ready" gear that only has analog component inputs.

Point 2: Ron's second poll should be "If you're not going to invest in HD-DVD/Blu-Ray this year, why not?" and list what appears to be the top five or six reasons in this thread so-far - Format War, DRM, content, incompatibilities, cost, or bugs/development. This might tell the Hollywood types that, "gee. Maybe it takes more than a 30 year old transfer on a crippled disc to get people to buy HD."

Side-note: I'm not suggesting that Ron posted this poll on behalf of the studio and hardware marketers. I, myself, find it very interesting. However, if I were a marketer, I would consider myself a fool if I didn't even look at a poll in such a place as this, no matter how unscientific it might be.

Side-side note: Even though I voted earlier ago to pass on this for at least a year, I am not anti-HD. I've been working with HD and pushing it for about five years now, and have worked lighting, engineering, and general grip /electrician rolls for a number of HDTV demonstration shoots. (720x60p Confederate Air Show shoot, 720x60p Angel shoot, for those of you who may or may not have seen some of the test footage from the Philips-Polaroid HD Camera.) I want HD to succeed. But I want it to succeed because it is good, not because it's the only thing out there. Unfortunately, there are already numerous, critical flaws - the maintenance of 59.94fps, 29.97fps, and 23.982fps (or whatever) frame rates for legacy NTSC frame-rate compatibility, for example.)

Leo Kerr

 

[WillG]

I am going to wait things out (although, like many, I may end up getting PS3 at some point after it is released) I have a HDTV but no HDMI. Has it been officially announced that Blu Ray will only support full resolution over HDMI? Seems from the responses, the answer is yes. If it has been officially announced, I must have missed it.

 

[Arnie G]

I have a hdtv with dvi but I'm waiting for now. I'm in no hurry to outdate my sizeable dvd collection. I think DVDs look pretty darn good. I wouldn't be unhappy if either new format failed.

 

[Max Leung]

I just thought of another reason to wait: Studios that support both formats using the same video master for Bluray and HD-DVD! Wouldn't it be a travesty if Warner released one movie on both HD-DVD and Bluray and THEY HAD THE SAME MASTERING because it would save them money? Given that HD-DVD has much less capacity than Bluray, I am certain the PQ would suffer if the video is the same bit-for-bit. :frowning:

 

[Dave Scarpa]

Ron, thanks for making this topic, it kind of bring back all those memories from 1997 when the forum Spearheaded DVD and was going full tilt against DIVX, and Non Anamorphic encoding (remember those days?) Anyhow there's alot more involved this time around.

I will have to first wait out the format wars. There's no way I want to own two players unless Bill Gates brings out the announced Xbox360 add on HD-DVD cheaply enough. There's certainly Positives and Negatives to both Formats.

Second Equipment concerns. I just purchased a new LCD for my main Living room/Xbox 360 set. It's only 1368x768 for 720P, so it would'nt benefit from 1080i or 1080p resolution. My Basement Mits is 1080i but does not have HDMI (although there's rumors one of the formats might support HD over component, I'm not banking on it.) And Finally my Optoma H30 projector is only 800x600, no HD Love there, although I'm still quite happy with its picture.

Third the majority of titles comin in the first waves are rehashes, Sure I'd love to Have Batman Begins and Robocop in HD, but do I really want to buy these disks again?

There certainly is alot to ponder but I guess bottom line is I'm sitting out this round of being an early adopter. The only thing this is really making me do is cut back my DVD Purchases to TV Shows Only. I simply refuse to have to buy movies twice from this point on.

 

[RobertR]

Here's another reason to hold off on "jumping in" right away:

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/01/06/1g...omit_features/

Looks like the first generation of BR players will be missing promised features.

 

[dpippel]

I was an early adopter of DVD back in 1997.

I currently own a 57" rear projection HDTV with DVI input.

I currently own over 500 standard definition DVD titles.

Video and audio quality are THE most important aspects of the home theater experience for me.

That being said...

I WILL NOT BE AN EARLY ADOPTER OF HIGH DEFINITION DVD

There are several reasons for this:

1) I'm not buying two players, so until manufacturers start selling machines that can handle both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD at a reasonable price-point, or until one format wins out over the other, I'm sitting this whole thing out.

2) I have major concerns about invasive and obtrusive DRM. Sorry Sony et. al., but I'm NOT going to jump through hoops, install spyware on my PC, or deal with compromised video/audio quality for the "privelege" of paying my good money to purchase and use your media products. The industry had better pull their heads out of their collective, er, SAND and get something worked out soon, or the consumer marketplace is going serve them up a big steaming platter of sizzling, crashed and burned high-def DVD right quick. Doesn't *ANYONE* in the home video business remember DIVX?!?!

3) My third item is just an observation that has to do with the major difference between the rollout of high-def DVD and standard DVD. When standard definition DVD hit the marketplace, *ANYONE* with a television could buy a player, plug it in, and benefit from the improved video quality and ease of use it provided over VHS. High-def DVD, on the other hand, not only requires the consumer to have a HD display device but one equipped with a DVI/HDMI digital input. If the consumer doesn't have a HDTV to begin with (the vast majority of the market in the US), then that person is looking at a minimum cash outlay of $1500 to buy into high definition DVD. Despite the format war and DRM issues, IMO this is the single largest stumbling block to the success of either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. When you add in the aforementioned hurdles that the industry has self-imposed on the situation, acceptance and profitability for either format are going to be LONG rows to hoe. If the industry has any illusions of this thing going even nearly as well as the rollout of standard definition DVD, then I think they're all in for a nasty surprise. Just MHO.

EDIT: I just viewed the poll results for this thread. A whopping 81% of respondents are going to sit out the first year of these DVD formats. If a large majority of knowledgable home theater enthusiasts such as ourselves are going to give HD-DVD and Blu-Ray a pass, what about Joe Consumer? The industry NEEDS early adopters like us to get the word out, but it seems they're doing their best to alientate the very consumer group that would help spearhead the rollout. This doesn't bode well.

 

[Bill Cowmeadow]

Honestly, to me, my projector, screen and sound system offer as good as I get in the theater. I have no desire for the next big thing in home theater at the moment. What I would be far more interested in would be a low cost Hard drive server I could load all my current DVD's into and play at will.

 

[Glenn Overholt]

Sorry, I won't vote until I get more information, AND some things happen.

If the DRM issues are 'liveable' for me - so that I will be able to get a picture through my DVI/DHCP input, at something better than 480p, and I can connect my receiver up for at least the quality of audio that I am getting now, then I won't wait, except to hold out until there is a clear winner.

HD is going to have a 2 or 3 month lead before BR joins, and in today's market that is a long time. Any studio supporting both isn't going to wait for BR to get out on the market before they start cranking out titles. No, they are going to milk the consumers dry. Joe Public might start asking questions, but when he discovers that his favorite movie is out looking much sweeter than it was before, and he hasn't heard about any other (BR) format, he's going to buy, if he can.

Having said that though, I don't want to jump on any HD bandwagon just to double-dip my collection (1000+ titles) to death. No, I want to see catalog titles come out that have not come out on SD yet.

I am favoring BR, but that is partially because I don't know what their DRM specs are yet. I also don't think that BR is going to let HD get a 2 or 3 month lead too. If BR was supposed to have a Spring release (remember way back to 2005?) they are going to be losing tons of $$ every day that they wait.

Glenn