Will EL CID, THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE, and 55 DAYS AT PEKING ever get a proper restoration and h (1 Viewer)

[OliverK]

Can someone explain that reference to me? Why would there have been "feature length Super 8mm prints released in the 1990s"??? Who would have wanted Super 8 prints of a movie in the 1990s? I never heard of this. Thanks.

These were still quite common in the 90ies. DVD had just started its rise at the end of the decade and not everybody switched to it right away.

 

[WadeM]

I would love a proper region A release of these films on blu-ray.

Criterion would be a dream.

 

[Doug Bull]

Why would there have been "feature length Super 8mm prints released in the 1990s"??? Who would have wanted Super 8 prints of a movie in the 1990s?

Thanks.

Probably the same people that are still buying them today.

Here is just one of many advertisements for 8mm films and equipment that appeared in the very latest copy of a certain Australian Film Collectors magazine.
There are still a large number of 8mm enthusiasts world wide.

As far as I know, these are all legit prints.
Sorry, but I will not pass on any other info regarding this ad as it might be against HTF rules. It was only used for reference regarding the posters question.

 

[Ejanss]

The films are not PD and presently controlled in the US by The Weinstein Company. Not sure when and if ever their agreement runs out.

They lost interest in the titles after poor sales of EL CID and FALL OF THE RIMAN EMPIRE. Which was actually their fault due to the poor transfers. I thought the transfers were acceptable, but just acceptable. I could never understand why they did not start with CIRCUS WORLD due to the popularity of John Wayne. That would have been a sure seller.

Yeah, was just about to answer that the Weinsteins did own the big-Bronstons, I don't know who DOES, at the moment.

 

[Robert Harris]

These films should need little in terms of actual "restoration."

A quality scan and image harvest along with a proper harvest of audio should do the trick, along with a bit of digital cleanup.

While 70mm prints would have been struck from EC and 55, the orig neg of Roman should be near pristine.

RAH

 

[RolandL]

These films should need little in terms of actual "restoration."

A quality scan and image harvest along with a proper harvest of audio should do the trick, along with a bit of digital cleanup.

While 70mm prints would have been struck from EC and 55, the orig neg of Roman should be near pristine.

RAH

AFAIK all the 70mm prints for Fall of the Roman Empire were flat. It would be cool if this could be released on Blu-ray in the full Ultra Panavision 2.76:1.

 

[Doug Bull]

"Fall of the Roman Empire" looks reasonably good on the German Koch Blu-Ray.
Colors are a little washed out, but it has decent detail and sharpness.

It is certainly the best quality video version so far, although it's nowhere near the quality of the French Blu-Ray of "Circus World" which is outstanding.

If you like FOTRE, then this is definitely the version to own.

The Picture quality on the German Koch Blu-ray of "El Cid" is a notch below that of "FOTRE"
It's sadly the best looking video version of "El Cid" available, so unless you're desperate, I would wait for something better.
Both Discs have removable sub-titles. Word of warning - Both discs are region 2 locked. ( will play ok with region 4 )

Doug.

 

[John Hermes]

The following has been added to the description for 55 Days at Peking on Amazon France (February 19 release date):
New High Definition masterFilm presented version Roadshow (opening, intermission and closing)" The last stand of Nicholas Ray" (46 ') by Christophe Champclaux , film historian : Back on the conditions of production and filming of a movie that was a huge success but still underestimated by moviegoers" The Boxer rebellion " ( 12'30 " ) by Christophe Champclaux , film historian : That was exactly the Boxer Rebellion What are the differences between historical reality and the film of Nicholas Ray ?" Boxers cinema " (6 ') by Christophe Champclaux , film historian : 55 Days at Peking was not the first movie to deal with the Boxer Rebellion"Ava Gardner, portrait" (19 ') by Linda Tahir Meriau , film historian : Back on the career of one who remains forever "The Barefoot Contessa "" Histoire (s) of China" ( 37'30 " ) : The filmmaker Olivier Assayas and rédateur chief of Cahiers du Cinéma Charles Tesson share their vision of 55 Days BeijingInterviews during filming (20 ') :- Charlton Heston- Mrs. Heston- David Niven- John Moore

 

[Doug Bull]

I'm concerned that 55DAP might have those dreaded forced French subtitles, but I'll probably order it anyway.
It does look as if they went to bit of trouble for this release.

Thanks for the info John.

Now I have to navigate that awful French Amazon site again.

 

[OliverK]

Doug is probably right about the German Blu-ray being the best possible option today to watch FOTRE on something else than film. One should however remember that the Blu-ray is roughly about the same quality as the Blu-ray of Spartacus which is not held in high regard anywhere except perhaps with the people who decided to release it the way it looks now.Regarding El Cid the UK Blu-ray is slightly better than the German version as the colors have been adjusted in order to get rid of that strange orange leaning tint that can also be seen in the screencap that Doug has posted. Imo it is still a disgrace for such a magnificent looking movie, just look at King of Kings to get an idea as to how good it could look.As I wrote before regarding 55 Days in France: The company that worked on it also worked on Circus World PLUS my information is that it will have a 5.1 soundtrack so most people should be very happy with it. I have it preordered already and will just shift subs out of the picture if there are any.It is very bad luck for fans of El Cid that important markets (USA, UK, most of mainland Europe) have been at least partly saturated with subpar versions of the movie on Blu-ray and DVD as this means that efforts to work on El Cid had been postponed last I heard. The same goes for Fall with the added problem of Fall having been shot in 65mm which reduces the number of facilities that can work on it which may mean higher costs and together with its lesser popularity this makes Fall the less likely of the two to see a release in the near future.After having seen the effort that was made for The Leopard and knowing that Martin Scorsese has a soft spot for FOTRE maybe the film foundation will at some point revisit the hopefully still pristine OCN. I think that it is not a great but a good movie and it has some of the most striking visuals that I have seen on film.

 

[DP 70]

The BFI has a 70mm print of FOTRE which has the extra scene which of course is all pink but the 6 track is still ok.
Always hoping this will screen sometime in NFT 1 in the Southbank.

As Roland, I would like to see this in full 2.76.1 on Blu if ever released.

 

[Doug Bull]

Regarding El Cid the UK Blu-ray is slightly better than the German version as the colors have been adjusted in order to get rid of that strange orange leaning tint that can also be seen in the screencap that Doug has posted.

Thanks for that info Oliver.

I was unaware of the UK Blu-ray.
While I do enjoy "El Cid" it is not one of my favourite Bronston movies.
The skin tones do worry me a lot on the German Disc.

Is it worth changing the German disc for the UK one? How much better does it look?

Doug.

 

[OliverK]

Thanks for that info Oliver. I was unaware of the UK Blu-ray.While I do enjoy "El Cid" it is not one of my favourite Bronston movies.The skin tones do worry me a lot on the German Disc. Is it worth changing the German disc for the UK one? How much better does it look? Doug.

Doug,I am not sure what to say but to me with the changed colors the PQ is about on par with Fall. Would I recommend to rebuy it? Only when you feel you actually want to watch it soon after getting it.Otherwise better to give it a pass as there is the possibility of something better in the not too distant future.BTW: Found another Bronston on Amazon Spain: John Paul Jones which unfortunately is a horrible Blu-ray with possibly the worst noise reduction I have seen. It is worse than the first Patton Blu-ray and in comparison EL Cid and Fall look natural and quite detailed.

 

[john a hunter]

Doug,I am not sure what to say but to me with the changed colors the PQ is about on par with Fall. Would I recommend to rebuy it? Only when you feel you actually want to watch it soon after getting it.Otherwise better to give it a pass as there is the possibility of something better in the not too distant future.BTW: Found another Bronston on Amazon Spain: John Paul Jones which unfortunately is a horrible Blu-ray with possibly the worst noise reduction I have seen. It is worse than the first Patton Blu-ray and in comparison EL Cid and Fall look natural and quite detailed.

I have both Doug and like Oliver regard the UK as slightly superior .Also you don't have to change the soundtrack over from German with no gap in which to do it .
Cid is my favourite Bronston and IMO rivals Ben Hur as the "best" epic out there after Lawrence so I had no trouble getting two copies!

 

[Doug Bull]

Doug,
I am not sure what to say but to me with the changed colors the PQ is about on par with Fall. Would I recommend to rebuy it? Only when you feel you actually want to watch it soon after getting it.
Otherwise better to give it a pass as there is the possibility of something better in the not too distant future.

BTW: Found another Bronston on Amazon Spain: John Paul Jones which unfortunately is a horrible Blu-ray with possibly the worst noise reduction I have seen. It is worse than the first Patton Blu-ray and in comparison EL Cid and Fall look natural and quite detailed.

Thanks for the advice Oliver,
I think I'll give El Cid a miss for now and wait for a better transfer.

I've clearly overlooked that "John Paul Jones" was a Bronston production.
It's always seemed like a 100% Warner Bros production to me, even down to Max Steiner.

Warner Archives released it on DVD, does anybody know what the quality is like?

35mm frames from the trailer

Doug.

 

[Alan Tully]

The French, 55 Days At Peking sounds hopeful, but forced subs, & it's a pass!

 

[MLamarre]

I've clearly overlooked that "John Paul Jones" was a Bronston production.
It's always seemed like a 100% Warner Bros production to me, even down to Max Steiner.

Warner Archives released it on DVD, does anybody know what the quality is like?

Doug.

I don't have the disc, but they have this preview clip on YouTube:

 

[ahollis]

I don't have the disc, but they have this preview clip on YouTube:

I have the disc and it looks very very good. Excellent in fact.

 

[ahollis]

The French, 55 Days At Peking sounds hopeful, but forced subs, & it's a pass!

Yep. That's my thought too.

 

[Doug Bull]

Thanks guys.
I might try the Warner Archive disc.