Why SACD is not bigger than it is... (1 Viewer)

[Felix Martinez]

Felix, I must disagree here as perhaps SACD Forum is strategizing that converging the two formats will make universal players the accepted standard and having a partial slice of a much bigger pie is better than all of a small pie.

Converging the two formats and making each try to be more like the other are two different things, and I agree with you.

But when I read about the goals of SACD II from High Fidelity Review (enhanced video content and improved copy-protection measures), I just have to say I hope those are not the priorities or the only goals to keep SACD on the right track...

Cheers,

 

[Michael St. Clair]

I have two PCs at home, and three at work. I have seven CD-R, DVD-ROM, burners, etcetera...seven total drives that can read CDs. Only two of the seven can read the redbook layer off a hybrid SACD perfectly...two of the others have horrendous skips and errors, and the remaining three do not recognize the discs. Many people like to listen to CDs at work. I am forced to use my 'compatible' drives as a source to burn copies of my hybrid discs so that I can listen to them on all of my machines.

At home I have three DVD players. One is an Apex that I use for region-free capability. It cannot play redbook layers from an SACD.

Two of my coworkers have Toshiba DVD players that are 3 or so years old at home. The DVD players work great on their standard-def sets, they have no need to upgrade. I send them home hybrid SACDs to try out. They don't play.

Don't believe the lies about hybrid compatibility.

 

[LarryDavenport]

I think it is still too early for me to say whether I prefer DVDA or SACD as I have only had a Universal player (Pioneer Elite 45a) for about a month, have about a dozen DVDAs and about that many SACDs plus all the Rolling Stones remasters/hybrids. And since I basically live in an L-shaped studio apartment I cannot set up my system for optimum performance (and I only have 4 speakers).

On the sound front I find that almost everything sounds better in hi-rez, but only the Stones remasters, the DVDA of Neil Young's Harvest, the two Grateful Dead DVDAs,and the SACDs of Miles Davis Cookin' and Muddy Waters Folk Singer "knocked my socks off."

I like the visual accompaniment of DVDA but will not buy another player if that is what I will have to do to enjoy the same on SACD2. I like the hybrid quality of SACD, except that they will not play on my MAC at work or my laptop.

With about 2500 CDs in my library and being that I will turn 40 next January I wrefuse to once again replace my collection on another format unless it is an album I cherish (or it's the Beatles), or that there is a lot of bonus stuff, or it is remixed to 5.1.

 

[cwhite]

I just bought "Masked And Anonymous" with the bonus SACD Bob Dylan sampler disc. Believe it or not, it's a HYBRID disc and this must be Sony's first hybrid disc. If Sony had introduced backwards compatibility with SACD in the first place, I don't this topic would be an issue.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

With about 2500 CDs in my library and being that I will turn 40 next January I wrefuse to once again replace my collection on another format unless it is an album I cherish (or it's the Beatles), or that there is a lot of bonus stuff, or it is remixed to 5.1.

Well I don't blame and I am almost 40 as well. I think you might change your mind over time, however, if big titles of your favorites groups show up (I want the Beatles too ) or if the costs of hardware/software continues to drift down.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

But when I read about the goals of SACD II from High Fidelity Review (enhanced video content and improved copy-protection measures), I just have to say I hope those are not the priorities or the only goals to keep SACD on the right track...

Felix, I am sure those are not the only goals and likely not big priorities.

It is amazing to me that so many people have posted messages that are critical of SACD II before we know the official or final details. There is a big assumption that these extra features will somehow force people to replace their entire SACD collections. I think that's a big leap that hints at a bias against Sony. Perhaps these will just be enhancements to the Super Audio experience. Nothing more, nothing less.

It is possible that these features are being added based on the wishes of the very labels that Sony wishes to court. That can only be good because it will create more music for us music lovers.

It is also possible its just a rumor and will not happen.

 

[Phil A]

Toshiba DVD players are noted to have problems playing hybrids. The 4700 Model which is a DVD-A machine also has reported problems cutting off the 1st few seconds of DVD-A tracks. I know a couple of people with this problem. The Toshiba 4800 DVD-A player I bought my brother would not play the AIX DVD-A sampler (it played the DVD-V side but not the DVD-A). Some other DVD players also have problems reading hybrids. There are many exceptions to perfect hardware/software performance issues. I believe (but could be wrong) the SACD standard for hybrids is that they will play in CD players. Due to variations on the original redbook standard some CDs are longer than 74 minutes (e.g. Beatles "1") and some CD players won't even play it. People have also reported discs that some universal players can't play.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Due to variations on the original redbook standard some CDs are longer than 74 minutes (e.g. Beatles "1") and some CD players won't even play it.

If the discs were manufactured out of redbook specs, then the label is to blame, not the hardware firm. The SACD redbook layer is tailored to be within normal Philips specs for CD layers.

Just speculation but it may be that there are some problems with laser precision on some units. If slightly out of spec they could be hitting the hirez layer by mistake or at least are confused by it. I do know that the laser wavelengths between redbook and DSD are very different.

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

But to be honest, SACD has been attracting more sales, more titles and more record labels than DVDA, so Super Audio must be doing something right.

If I may be so bold as to make an observation....

Classical music buffs such as myself are a small minority in the general music buying public, but I guess we are a much larger percentage of the "audiophile" public.

Between them, Sony (Columbia) and Philips [rant]own the classical music catalog.[/rant]

I considered a $700 hybred player, but decided to get a $400 Philips 963 instead because all the recordings I wanted were on SACD and none were on DVD-A.

Perhaps it's the classical music buffs who are driving the decision in hi-rez digital audio. How odd.

 

[Lewis Besze]

Lewis, check out the Steve Hoffman forum for clues on which DSOTMs are from Crest.

I already know the clues for the Crest press,I was looking for the US alternative?!
Does anyone know where can I get a non Crest but US manufactured DSOTM disc preferably for the same price?

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Between them, Sony (Columbia) and Philips own the classical music catalog.

Yes, and the quality has been excellent. Any San Francisco Symphony Mahler series is among the best in my collection as are the Channel Classics discs. I particularly like the Peter Wispelwey recordings. Perhaps it is fitting that classical, in exec's minds the bastard stepson of the industry, is driving the acceptance in large part.

There was a post on Grammaphone recently where 3 of the Top 10 recordings were SACD and many others are recorded in DSD.

 

[Lewis Besze]

I take it you don't know then, thanks.
Search came back negative to my question.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I guess you found it Lewis.

 

[Seth--L]

To clarify, Philips is part of Universal Music - which includes both Decca and DG (Philips has the smallest catalogue of the three).

The problem with classical music on Hi-Rez formats is that no one is releasing anything from their catalogue. Sony put out a good number of their Columbia/CBS recordings from the 60s and 70s in 2000, but lately they've only been releasing one or two catalogue recordings every few months. At this point Universal has only released 2 or 3 pre 1990 recordings on SACD (most of their SACD releases were recorded in the last 5-10 years). I don't believe EMI or RCA have touched their catalogues yet (for DVD-A). It also should be noted that for whatever reason, Universal Music is creating their DSD transfers from PCM masters, not the original tapes (doesn’t that defeat the purpose of SACD and DSD?).

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Universal Music is creating their DSD transfers from PCM masters, not the original tapes (doesn’t that defeat the purpose of SACD and DSD?)

Some are PCM and some are not. It does not defeat the purpose sonically (at least not 100%) because editing stations upsample and the consumer also benefits from new remasterings.

It is better to do native DSD or transfer from analog, but DSD is increasingly common on the pro side.

Life is good...and there are many more titles coming...

 

[Lewis Besze]

Not true. Many Sony discs come from Japan but are sold as U.S. discs. Also, many are coming from Terre Haute, Indiana. There is another US plant as well if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Stephen Best]

Most of your post is factually incorrect. Check my site below for actual substantiated information.

Stephen Best
SACDinfo.com

 

[Felix Martinez]

The problem with classical music on Hi-Rez formats is that no one is releasing anything from their catalogue.

How about catalog titles from Telarc and the RQR (Remastered Quadro Recordings) PentaTone Philips Classics titles?

I recently rec'd a number of these RQR titles, and in the case of Rachmaninov: Piano Concerto No. 2 (Eliahu Inbal/Radio Symphony Orchestra), it just blew my mind how great this 4-channel recording from the early '70s sounds! Rivals many, many newer hi-rez recordings...

http://www.telarc.com/sacd/title.asp...05AFURQ6QPB404

Cheers,

 

[Lee Scoggins]

How about catalog titles from Telarc and the RQR (Remastered Quadro Recordings) PentaTone Philips Classics titles?

Yes, I forgot these big labels. RQR is new to me, however. Quad recordings from the 70s!

 

[Seth--L]

Lee,

Catalogue implies recordings that are not recent.



I'd much rather have Mahler by Kubelik, Szell, Dohnányi, Haitink, Walter, Horenstein, and Barbirolli.