Why is there less love for TV OAR than for movies? (1 Viewer)

[Rob Gillespie]

Any TV I do watch tends to be in 4:3 mode (unless it's letterboxed in which case I'll 'zoom'), but that choice is down to me not wanting captions cut off all the time. I don't really give a toss what aspect ratio I watch the news in.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Most of my TV watching is either the news or sports. If someone wants to label me a heretic for watching that programming in stretched mode, please feel free. I would rather protect against burn-in than revel in the OAR artistry of CNN or The Weather Channel. Football and hockey do not bother me in stretch mode, but I usually watch golf in its OAR (I need the proper distance perspective, since the fairways and greens look too wide in stretch mode). I have grown very tired of prime time network TV, and usually will watch a DVD instead. The exception is Turner Classic Movies, which has become one of my favorite stations, and that is strictly OAR viewing.
I do have quite a few Academy ratio films in my DVD collection, and all of those are watched window-boxed, with black bars on the sides.
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My DVD Collection
AFI 100 Films to watch: 40 -> 5
[Edited last by Scott Merryfield on August 23, 2001 at 01:07 PM]

 

[Richard Kim]

A question to 16:9 owners: couldn't you just construct black mattes for 4:3 viewing, and set the side bars to gray to prevent burn in? After all, many 4:3 owners use mattes for widescreen viewing.
[Edited last by Richard Kim on August 23, 2001 at 08:53 AM]

 

[Mike I]

Most prime time programs produce the last 3 years or so have been shoot widecreen and framed for 4.3 anyway..So if you watching it 4.3 without stretching you are not watching oar anyway...
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[Edited last by Mike I on August 23, 2001 at 10:42 AM]

 

[Jason Seaver]

A question to 16:9 owners: couldn't you just construct black mattes for 4:3 viewing, and set the side bars to gray to prevent burn in? After all, many 4:3 owners use mattes for widescreen viewing.

I tried that (without the mattes), but after a while I found that the area corresponding to the left gray bar (but, oddly, not the right, or at least not to as noticeable an extent) was slightly darker when watching in full/theaterwide modes. Since there doesn't seem to be any way to adjust the brightness of the side bars on my Toshiba TW40F80 (? on the model number), I opted to start using theaterwide unless it became unwatchable that way.

 

[DaveF]

Watching TV is not my hobby. It's not what my equipment was bought for.

This is what I find most interesting. My sense is that if J6p came here and said, "Watching movies is not my hobby; I don't care OAR, just fill up my screen, " he would be overwhelmed by people trying to convince him why P&S is evil, letterbox is better, OAR respects the director's vision, etc.
But when it is flipped, by movie buffs with less interest in TV, then it's ok.
Perhaps I mis-read the forum's general attitude, but even if there was a replacement for P&S than stretched LB movies vertically, without cropping, to fill a 4:3 screen, most here would still desire to get J6P to watch the movie in OAR.
Or perhaps not. Maybe the OAR mantra is mainly to preserve the availability of OAR presentation (which as shown by Wonka is threatened). And how it is actually watched is of little concern.

 

[Mike I]

Once again if you are watching primetime shows 4.3 you are not watching them OAR anyway..They are shoot widecsreen and framed for 4.3
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[William Ward]

Since television shows generally are not chopped up for broadcast, Everyone gets to view them in thier original form. WS viewers choosing to zoom, or fill, or whatever in the privacy of our own home will not affect the way that J6P receives the program in HIS home.
J6P's movie tastes however, have just caused us to have three films only available modified(obviously) from their original theatrical versions. We don't have the option to view them properly as J6P does if we choose to zoom a TV show.
Now if they were releasing a season box set of said TV show on DVD we'd want it to be the way it was intended. If it was supposed to be 4:3 then make it that way. If it was 16/9 then release it that way(late seasons of ER)
We don't give a rat's tail what J6P does with his DVD in the comfort of his own home. We do care when his choices limit our viewing capabilities.
BTW, when my wife watches her Thursday(only day with "her shows") programs, she watches it letterboxed except for 'ER' which is zoomed unless it's not WS.
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William
Go Bucs!!
MyDVDs

 

[Mike I]

Since television shows generally are not chopped up for broadcast, Everyone gets to view them in thier original form.

This is the point I have been trying to make in previous posts, primetime shows for the last couple of years are filmed widescreen and are being chopped or framed for 4.3 so you are not watching them oar anyway..
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[MickeS]

William, GREAT reply! It's all about choice. A P&S DVD doesn't leave the OAR-lovers any choice. If someone preferred to watch OAR/widescreen DVD's cropped on the sides, I wouldn't give a rat's ass, as long as I can watch them in their proper format.
/Mike

 

[William Ward]

This is the point I have been trying to make in previous posts, primetime shows for the last couple of years are filmed widescreen and are being chopped or framed for 4.3 so you are not watching them oar anyway..

Then why aren't the broadcasters putting them on in WS??? Like I said, if a show was supposed to be 16/9, then do it that way on DVD. I wouldn't mind if they did it that way in broadcast form but that may be tougher than doing it on a DVD box set that way.
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William
Go Bucs!!
MyDVDs

 

[Mike I]

Broadcasters are starting to do them widescreen on the non HD channels...NBC will have 4 of there dramas this fall in widescreen...ER, West Wing and 2 of their new dramas.
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[Lane Denson]

Well, this is a subjective "what is art?" response, but I tend to view your average television program as throwaway entertainment. There are some exceptions, but movies seem to be more artistically valid than TV shows on the whole. That's why I probably wouldn't think twice about zooming/stretching "Friends" (if I had a 16:9 set). Not to mention that zooming most TV content will get rid of those annoying network bugs
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I am funkier than you
[Edited last by Lane Denson on August 23, 2001 at 12:50 PM]

 

[DaveF]

It's all about choice. A P&S DVD doesn't leave the OAR-lovers any choice.

I agree that's a significant difference - non-OAR videos usually entails a loss of image to all prospective viewers, while non-OAR TV is (currentlY) a matter of scaled image, with no loss.
But doesn't a pro-OAR involve the promotion of proper OAR, regardless of quality of 'art', degree of image loss, or target market?
Anyhow, thanks to all who answered my silly questions I've got a pretty good handle on my original question now.
dave f.

 

[Sutjahjo Ngaserin]

Assuming it is really TRUE that MOST TV movies and serials are shot wide and then chopped off on the side, what is the true OAR? wide or 4X3?
I am confused because for years the widescreen fans hinted to me that Kubrick is a jerk because he doesn't understand OAR, if it was shown in the theatre wide, then wide is OAR! not how it was shot or director intentions. After all, what do the directors know about their movies anyway? We serious fans ought to know better, right?
This is why Kubrick and Camerons are offending the "wider is better" crowd, isn't it?
I think it is the paranoia of HTF Fans after years of seeing film being butchered by Pan & Scan process in home video formats, and they have gone extreme!

 

[Todd Hochard]

Watching TV is not my hobby. It's not what my equipment was bought for.

Amen, my brother.
Why should I give a damn about how I display broadcast TV? The broadcasters don't- I'm just following the example.
I didn't spend $5000 on a TV, so that I could look at side-bar burn in next year. Every film I watch isn't 2.35x1, so the risk there is lower. By the time those bars burn in, I'll be ready for a holographic stage.

Todd

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Why should I give a damn about how I display broadcast TV?

Why should I give a damn about how I display motion pictures?
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My DVD Collection

 

[Dwayne]

quote:
Why should I give a damn about how I display motion pictures?
[/quote]
You do realize that this is a Home Theater Forum , right?
Another thing people have to realize is that most people in this hobby are in it to recreate theatrical presentations to the best of their ability, sometimes even exceeding the quality.
If anyone disagrees with me, then take a look at your DVD library and tell me if the majority of your DVDs are based on television programming or film.
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-Dwayne
"And vidi films I would."
[Edited last by Dwayne on August 26, 2001 at 10:18 PM]

 

[Mike Brantley]

Actually, a good deal of my DVD collection includes material developed for television. Let's see.... From the Earth to the Moon, Star Trek, The Twilight Zone, The Sopranos, The X-Files, Farscape, etc. I'd own a lot more if only the studios would release the stuff quicker. I don't consider a movie, miniseries, series drama or even a sitcom any less an art just because it was developed for television. As with theatrical movies, there's much mediocrity, some truly bad stuff and some wonderfully worthwhile stuff.
I'm a TV critic, and right now I'm in the middle of screening the 10-part miniseries Band of Brothers that's coming up on HBO starting Sept. 9. This is high art, believe me.
With television materal as with theatrical films, I want the best presentation possible. The Sopranos is much more enjoyable in my home theater than it is on the kitchen TV set.
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Mike Brantley
Our Theater:
Mike & Cheryl's Screening Room

[Edited last by Mike Brantley on August 27, 2001 at 11:30 PM]

 

[Todd Hochard]

Thank you, Adam, for quoting only the part that suited you.

My point regarding TV is- there are many series (ER, West Wing, etc) that are shot widescreen, and that aspect never sees the light of day. At home, with my stretch modes, I have a choice, made by me, for me. No one else affected.
With 4x3 broadcast, I have no choice. With P&S DVD- no choice.
There are many series I have great respect for- Sopranos, From the Earth to the Moon, heck, even Ed . The things I care about get watched correctly. The drivel that I don't- well, they get stretched. Fortunately for me, drivel gets minimal face time in my house.
Regarding Band of Brothers- I very much look forward to this. A damn shame I can't get my HD box in time.

Todd