Why dont i like bass? (1 Viewer)

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

It would probably make more sense if you actually had a BFD there for hands-on as you read.

In the meantime, perhaps you could fix your signature? Or at least delete the moderator's big, bold message?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Rutgar]

Allen, If your SVS sub has a variable crossover adjustment (I'm not really familier with SVS subs), you might want to try running it with you mains as satellites, and lowering the crossover frequency to 40, 50, or 60Hz. Bypassing the LFE out in the Yamaha (telling the Yamaha "NO" subwoofer). Then set your mains to "large", and your other speakers to "small". If it improves your sound, then keep it that way. If not, then you can put all back, and try the BFD. But in my opinion, at 90Hz, your Yamaha is crossing way too high for your sub, and your mains.

 

[Ned]

Did this guy ever measure his damn in-room response?

 

[Allen Marshall]

with what Ned?

Sorry wayne, i didnt think other people could see that.

Rutgar do you mean if i like it better with my subwoofer off and my Fronts on large then keep it that way???

 

[Allen Marshall]

The thing that bothers me about calibrating is you calibrate it to a certain spot. 3-4db over 75db or what have you. My problem is, that's only suffecient bass if your listening at or close to reference. Either cause i dont enjoy watching movies that loud or maybe i just dont enjoy the sound of my Athenas that much, or more specifically the center speaker!

But they're are times i like to watch it louder. All movies are different that's while im constantly changing the settings to suit each type of movie and i wish my reciever would save those settings away. For instance my settings right now are 20hz mode with one port plugged, 180 degree phase, crossover disabled, 1/2 gain and my sub is about 6db hotter then my speakers.

I was watching Kill Bill Vol 1 crazy 88 sword fight on DTS at -7 reference under those settings and my subwoofer is 15ft away for those who dont know. I originally had it at -11 reference but once i got used to the volume i turned it up. Not specifically to raise the speaker volume but so there was more bass cause i couldnt get enough of the thuds when some of the guys hit the ground. That's an example of me warming up to my subwoofer opposed to my earlier impressions. But as you can imagine, i cant keep it at that level for all movies. If i watched other movies that utilize bass more often it'd be one of two things. 1. Holy crap run for the hills 2. I'd be damaging my sub.

Generally i like to have my volume at a modest -10 to -20 range and my subwoofer 6-8db hot. I just wanted to clear that up if equalizing with constant setting changes creates a problem. When my sub stopped working for like 5 seconds during the bubble scene on the matrix revolutions i had it at the same settings i stated above and either -1 or 0 reference. Until then i always looked so highly of the PB2+ that i figured i didnt have to worry about it while i componsated for the matrix revolutions being mixed sort of quiet. Not that im dissing this ridiculously powerful $1200 machine.

Do any of you guys with far away subs watch movies like me?

 

[Rutgar]

No. I'm saying connect your sub and mains as a "satellite" system, using the subs built-in crossover to handle your bass management, instead of the Yamaha. You will still be using your subwoofer. If your Yamaha has independent "Power-in/Pre-out" connections, then you need to use those for connecting the sub this way. Otherwise, you will have to use the speaker level inputs on the sub, in order to "satellite" the mains with your sub. You have everything you need to do this, it's just a matter of connecting all the wires in the right places.

 

[Ned]

With what?

1) SPL meter
2) spreadsheet program (http://www.openoffice.org/ is free)
3) spreadsheet

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Allen, that last sentence is incomplete and doesn’t make any sense. Nevertheless, don’t confuse calibrating with equalizing. Calibrating is setting the various speaker levels in relation to each other (including the sub). Equalizing is smoothing the sub’s response. Once you equalize the sub you can set (calibrate) its level anyway you like. One had no affect on the other.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Allen Marshall]

Ned i havent read the necessity of doing it in learning about subwoofers, that's why i've never done it.

it does to me but i guess thats cause im the one who said it Wayne. Does it just preprocess some stuff coming from the reciever before it hits the subwoofer, meaning that once i take it out everything goes back to the way it was?

Rutgar, is that another way of saying hook the mains up to the subwoofer and have another set of wires going from the subwoofer to the mains on the reciever?

 

[Allen Marshall]

Ned what am i supposed to do? i opened up the spreadsheet in that program. I feel like a 5 year old looking at a scientist's microsoft excel project :frowning:

 

[Rutgar]

Well, you're half correct. Yes, you want a set of speaker wires (Front L & R Channels) to go directly from the receiver to the sub. Then have another set of wires go from the sub to your Rt. and Lt. main speakers (not back to the receiver). It should explain how to do this in your SVS manual. Once this is done, in your setup menu in the receiver: Set your mains to "Large", and set the rest of your speakers to "Small". Also, make sure your receiver is set to "NO" subwoofer. At this point, all of your Bass Management will be done by the SVS. You can then set the crossover frequency lower, and see what it sounds like. Again, I'm not real familiar with your particular sub. But, you should be able to cross it down to 40, 50, or even 60Hz. If not try the lowest crossover frequency it has, and see if that improves your sound. If things don't improve, or sound worse, you can alway put everything back the way it was originally. One final note, make sure and read your SVS manual to make sure it can be wired this way. Maybe another SVS PB-2 owner can chime in as well, since I don't have an SVS sub. But, it should be able to be connected this way.

 

[Ned]

4) Download test tones. Burn to CD or play from PC.


Allen

Mount your SPL meter on a tripod at your listening position. If you don't have a tripod you can hold it approximately where your ears would be.

Set meter to C weight, Slow response.

Set receiver volume very low and play the 20hz tone. Adjust volume until it reads 80db. Don't touch the volume knob again until you're finished.

Now play each tone and put the db reading into the Raw SPL column (far left).

When you've done all the measurements the graph is done. The blue line is your uncorrected response. Later if you get a BFD, you would measure again and put those measurements into the Raw SPL BFD column. Now the pink line shows your corrected response.

Keep adjusting the BFD until you get a reasonably smooth graph. The figures in the .xls file are my last sub measurements. Notice how the 50-60hz range dominates. Your room probably has similar peaks that drown out other frequencies. Hence the need to measure and correct.

 

[Allen Marshall]

alrighty Ned, when i come home from Dinner i'll get to that. Thanks!

Rutgar, i gotta run but when i get back i'll read your post (so i have time to read it clearly)

 

[Richard_M]

Not to be disrespectful, but you if you are plotting your in room response you don't need to have your system playing as loud as 80dB, this could be detrimental to your speakers and hearing.

As long as the sound is above the noise floor you can plot you’re in room response at lower levels.

 

[Ned]

80db in the sub range isn't loud at all. You can use 70db as your baseline but then outside noise can affect the readings. Just moving while the tones play can register at 70db. Any sub worth measuring can handle 80db tones in a short session.

 

[Allen Marshall]

i went on an impulse today/sorta got pissed and brought my subwoofer into my room cause i hardly ever get to use it or experiment with it, especially during the olympics. My room is 14x16 and it's at the foot of the bed (my bed is up against the wall) going longways, about 3 1/2 feet from both walls. I have surround sound on hear but bad speakers, Sharp bookshelves with a 8" sub, 4" midrange and a tweeter and a KLH center speaker and KLH satellites on my walls for rears with a 100x5 Kenwood reciever that has both DD and DTS but not PLII.

It was hard to get it up the stairs by myself so i just tied it to my dogs and let them bring it up (genetic defyingly big snow dogs as they are).

This is gonna be temporary i just wanted it to be in here for awhile, i'll eventually bring it back down. Ultimately once my sister finds a house and moves out it's going back into my original hometheater dedicated room.

This reciever settings works alot different then my yamaha. The speaker levels arent a long bar like my yamaha, it just goes from -10 to +10. My yamaha doesnt let you change the level of the fronts, just if you want the sound to come more out of the left or the right. The kenwood lets you change the front levels, so what i did was i knew my rears would be softer cause they're farther away and smaller, so i put them up to +10 then got them to 75db, then i put my fronts up to whatever level it would take to get 75db and it ended up being +8 and my center +7.

It also doesnt let you mess with treble or bass. I also dont have the controller cause my dogs chewed it up when they were puppies.

My problem is, i left my subwoofer at the same exact settings, kept the subwoofer level at 0 cause i figured about -5 or -6 would be equivelant to it calibrated

But it's comming out really softly. So i bumped it up to +10 just to get some noise out of it, i put it at -27 reference and it wasnt even really making much noise. I made sure the plugs were in right and tight. I turned subwoofer on on my reciever and put all the speakers to small. I had to turn it up to like -12 reference before i heard what i should normally hear at -45 reference. But that did put it loud enough for me to hear it and woooo, it sounds 1000 times better in this room. Gain is still 1/2 and all the settings are exactly how i left them.

Any ideas guys?

 

[Allen Marshall]

Im watching the matrix as we speak and it sounds better...in a way im not sure how to describe, but on the whole it's still exactly how i described it before. Like bouncing a ball on the wall, maybe if you throw it harder or softer or on an angle you can get it to sound alittle different but the sounds are still so closely related to the ear.

I think it's fine now, it seems like when i turned it off and turned it back on the subwoofer was alot louder but it still seemed alittle quiet. But then i noticed it's just harder to tell when your lying on a bed.

 

[Mary M S]

This I believe generally would not make an enormous difference (unless your speakers are out of polarity) and is most often a minor tweak with sometimes only marginally noticeable differences to the room. Since it cannot affect all frequencies as regards cancellation. Usually a tweak generally done last to fine-tune and help flatten response.

I notice you have mentioned your phase is set to 180 twice in the thread with no mention (or I missed it) of attempting to adjust it for best SPL level at the listening position.
Have you tried checking to determine the best setting for your phase for each room and respective listening positions?

 

[Allen Marshall]

Yes i have.