Why are they putting out all of these bombs? (1 Viewer)

[John Carr]

When it comes to TV shows, one persons POS is another ones treasure. It all boils down to taste.

However, I have a broad point of view when it comes to TV shows in general, since I've been watching TV since 1950. My first TV show was the Howdy Doody Show! (And, no, I do not want to own this TV show on DVD!)

Frankly, current TV programming is both more banal and more innovative (thanks to the influence of cable) than at any time in the past. The success of the Sopranos and shows like Northern Exposure, Moonlighting et al have widened the taste barrier. While I grew up with (and still love) shows like Leave it to Beaver/Topper/Father Knows Best/Have Gun Will Travel ect., I find the new 'freedom' and unusual concepts (shows like Dead Like Me, Firefly and Carnivale) of today's TV shows to be both worse (reality shows) and better (cable oriented fare) than ever before. So I'm just enjoying this great watchable feast.

And, as a reformed video taper, TV on DVD couldn't have come at a better time!

 

[Deb Walsh]

A lot of the shows we view now as classics had stumbling beginnings - and I do remember All in the Family had trouble getting started, finding its audience, overcoming people's hesitance, etc. It was, in its time, shocking television and not what people were used to watching. I knew people who found it distasteful, and would turn off the set when it came on. But every so often, a show has a champion, willing to ignore the naysayers and let the show find it place and build an audience. It's not uncommon for those shows to grow into classics over time because they had the opportunity to grow, period. Of course, after All in the Family, Norman Lear was considered to be a god, and could basically do no wrong in terms of television development (which leaves me still puzzling over how his Hot L Baltimore didn't make it - I loved that show more than any of his others).

I think today, we're seeing more of that nurturing happening on the DVD front (rather than on network), where a show may not have had the support of the network, but it does have the support of the studio (i.e., Firefly, Wonderfalls, Keen Eddie). On rare occasions, you see both happen, like with Arrested Development.

Stargate SG-1 is another good example of a series getting a network commitment, enabling it to find its audience. When Showtime first contracted for the series, they made an upfront commitment for 44 episodes, allowing the series to develop knowing they had 44 episodes in which to tell the story. And now it's a worldwide phenomenon in its own right. Had they started with a 13-episode commitment only, the gate might well have shut on them in the first season.

 

[Gord Lacey]

Mark, the studios are making money off these POS limited releases that you dispise, so when they see you bitching about them every few weeks you're dubbed one of the vocal minority and your opinion is discounted quite a lot. I've sent some studio people links to your posts where you have valid points, but they know your "rep" and dismiss what you say. Maybe if you could make fewer posts on the subject and back them up with proof you'd make a better impression. Just a suggestion.

Peter Staddon explained sales the best when he spoke about "active" and "passive" fans at the TV-DVD conference. They're more interested in releasing sets where the fans are active since those sell more. Try comparing the number of "FireFly" fan sites to the number of "NYPD Blue" fan sites, then look at how well the shows did in the ratings. I bet "NYPD Blue" did way better in the ratings, but "FireFly" sold more on DVD because of the active fans.

Gord

 

[DaveGTP]

*cough* B5-spinoff Crusade on TNT *cough*


Some shows do well, but not well enough, in the ratings, to stay around. Some of these shows are quite good, or have a very dedicated fanbase (like Joss Whedon's fans).

I haven't seen JMS's Crusade spin-off, but from all reports it experienced a lot of network interference and politics that were basically the reason for its premature death - it had decent ratings (as flawed as the ratings system is).

I remember I had a friend that used to go home so he could watch Crusade when it was on TNT. At the time I had only seen seasons 1 & 2 of B5 (its air times were jerked around a lot, long story) and we made fun of him. Now, I would be driving home too!


And I will be buying this short-run series next week, or as soon as I have the money. And I would consider a lot of your older stuff crap - it's all in the eye of the beholder. In this case, the eye of the buyer. I even agree with you a little (don't even get me started on releases of reality TV). A little respect please, for differing viewpoints. I don't bash on your releases, you don't bash on mine, please.

I imagine we'll end up with Firefly at some point, since we seem to have taken a liking to Buffy so far (on S2)


My wife had a show she watched for a few weeks called "Pasadena" on FOX. It was abruptly canceled after the 2nd week. She still complains about it when the subject of cancellations comes up. If it came out she would buy it - if just to see where it was going - since she never got to see it.

 

[Steve Phillips]

Look, 90% of TV is junk, then and now. It's the law of averages. Why argue about it?

I love lots of old TV series, and some new ones too. The mix of good, bad and in between in the same now as it was then.

When we think of TV classics from a particular decade, we are talking about only a tiny number of the shows that actually aired during that time. For every classic sitcom, there are ten more terrible, forgotten ones.

People who argue about how old TV was the best and the new stuff is terrible (and vice versa) are simply tiresome to me.

Watch (and buy) what interests you and quit bashing people who feel differently.

While you are at it, open your mind a bit to older stuff if you are younger and vice versa. You may be surprised that your preconceptions aren't entirely valid.

Myself, I just bought MAKE ROOM FOR DADDY, WONDER WOMAN, and FAMILY GUY...and I don't judge them by "when" they were made but by how much I enjoy them.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

I have questioned the effectiveness of using the internet to gage what will or won't sell in the past, and think that it can be problematic. Note, I never said that the internet was totally useless in this area just that there can be other factors outside of the internet that might have a greater impact than the net itself. Having said that I think Peter Staddon has it right on.

I don't think its simply enough to come on HTF or another message board and say I'd buy a season set of show X, as that doesn't really translate in the minds of executives. But more active fans that go beyond simply posting at a dedicated message board, but host and maintain websites, and not just websites but thriving websites are a better way of using the internet to gage how well a show might do.

 

[Carlos Garcia]

I stopped watching prime time TV shows as soon as Seinfeld ended. To me the TV industry no longer exists...I just keep my DVD player on all the time.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Crusade is a rare case. Ratings had absolutely nothing to do with the show's fate, for the simple reason that the show was cancelled and production on it halted about six months before the first episode ever aired. For various reasons TNT did not want the show and wanted out of its contract, so the network made increasingly absurd demands and changes until JMS refused to continue working under those conditions and Warner Bros. backed him. TNT got away with paying for only 13 of the 22 episodes it had signed for (they tried to cut-off post-production funds for the last five to be completed, but Warner Bros. drew the line at that. They had almost taken TNT to court over payment for the other 9 episodes, until someboy realized that the shareholders of Time Warner, Inc. would ultimately end up paying the lawyers on both sides of what could be a very expensive bit of litigation. ) Shooting wrapped in February of 1999. TNT aired the 13 completed episodes as "limited series" starting in June or July of that year. The ratings were quite decent for cable, mostly comparable to B5 S5, but as noted they counted for nothing. TNT didn't want the show under any circumstances, the actors' contracts had all expired by then, the sets had been struck and the shooting stage taken over by another production. TNT used its exclusive rights to the Babylon 5 reruns to ensure that the Sci-Fi Channel was unable to pick up Crusade and make it some sort of success. (SFC would not risk going forward with Crusade if it didn't also have B5.)0

I think that the Crusade set will be worth the price of admission just for JMS's no-holds-barred account of what really happened to the show in the interviews and commentary tracks.

Regards,

Joe

 

[Chet_F]

I'm a Sci-Fi junkie. Just about ANY TV show released that has to do with that subject is going to be on my wish list. I think the studios seem to be aiming for the best market when it comes to DVDs. And that, simply put, is the roughly 18-28 age group. It's all about the greenbacks. I enjoyed Firefly while it aired(when I could find it) and enjoyed it even more as a DVD release. Unless you have seen more than a few episodes you haven't given it a fair chance. It's one of those shows that grows better with every new episode. Can't wait for the movie!!

The next buy for me is going to be The 4400. It just aired this last year. The episodes that I was able to watch were great and I'm sure the DVD presentation is going to be even better.

Most of the shows mentioned in this thread I don't even recognize. It would be very hard for me to justify a purchase of those older shows due to the fact that I have a great deal of TV shows, movies already waiting on my wish list. I imagine I'm not the only one with these type of buying habits.

 

[Joshua Lane]

You're not, my buying habits are similar... I've got a list of shows I'd rather purchase first (Smallville, Angel, Popular, etc) before I'd buy any of the classic TV series. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that I enjoy a more modern/dramatic style of TV show. And most of the older series coming out are either somewhat campy (Lost in Space) or sitcoms (Happy Days, Taxi, etc) and I'm just not a fan of either.

I'm a Sci-Fi junkie too ...definitely looking forward to the 4400, a complete blind-buy for me.

 

[Jason Harbaugh]

The answer to the original post is simple and Gord touched on it, the studios make money on these small releases. It is like any other business, you have a product that you already paid for and produced and is just sitting there. In the case of shows, you haven't been able to sell it to the networks so why not try selling it on a different medium, DVD's. You don't make any money letting your product sit in a warehouse. DVD's are a small investment with a potential for a large return. Pretty safe gamble for most tv shows that were short lived and still have an active following.

That's just what I picture the owners of these shows are thinking.

 

[Rutgar]

I agree Jason. Plus, I think the original poster is way off base with his examples. Wonderfalls was an interesting little show, that actually caught my attention the two times it was showed But, I don't think I'll buy the DVD. Firefly, on the other, was a show I never even heard of, before it came out on DVD. I bought it on a comment I read on the Digital Bits. By the time I finished watching the first disk, I was hooked. I've turned several other people on to the show as well, and they also are hooked. All saying, "I can't believe FOX canceled this show!"

Mark, if you only watched two Firefly episodes, and it was when the show was on FOX, then I would suggest that you are doing an extreme dis-service to yourself. Rent the first two disk from Netflix or BB (if they have it). Give it half a chance, and I think you will see how you've totally misjudged the show. After the first two disks, in proper order (another thing FOX screwed up on), you will be ready to see two of the best SciFi TV episodes ever written: "Out of Gas", and "Aerial" (the first two episodes on the third disk). After all of that, if you still think Firefly sucks, then there is either no help for you, or you just don't like quality written shows, with great characters.

 

[Carlos Garcia]

The sad part is, with old classic shows like The Odd Couple, Get Smart, Batman, and others not being released or even mentioned for a possible release, the average fan may turn to ebay and bootlegs as a last resort. This is alot of money that is going to pirates' hands, that would otherwise go to the studios. It's really a sad thing, but I guess sometimes if the fan isn't served their dish, they have to fix it themselves. I mean, time is not on the side of the fans who grew up watching alot of this stuff, so maybe they figure if they wait until an official release, they may die never having seen the release at all.

 

[Mark To]

I now have my friend in Canada recording Get Smart for me. It runs on TV Land there and the shows are complete, coming in at about 25:20. It runs 7 days a week and I will get my run that way. Batman I have the run on transferred years ago all from 16mm prints. Obviously not as nice looking as it would be remastered. I am holding off on transferring them to DVD to see what Fox does. I'll give them another half a year and if I don't hear anything I'll go ahead and transfer what I have. Another sale lost. As for the Odd Couple, I'm at the mercy of Paramount. Its really never been available uncut (other than the 30 or so Columbia House tapes) so I'll just have to sit and hope along with everyone else. And that's how I deal with this shows, on a case by case basis. I've been collecting for almost 25 years and I have many shows on tape. As I go through them I make decisions as to whether or not I foresee a DVD release. Unless I think its a show that I feel has to come out, I will live with what I have. I'm still ready, willing and able to buy plenty of releases but I'm also not holding my breath for a lot of shows.

 

[Mikel_Cooperman]

Netwoks are quick with their trigger fingers.Miracles is another series that was only on for about 6 episodes but they weren't all broadcast. Releasing them on DVD allows you to see episodes that were filmed yet not aired.



Funny but this was mentioned in Entertainment Weekly recently as one of the gems that got away and in large part because it premiered after 9-11 and people were watching news more than anything.
If it had been allowed to continue they may have had something as popular as Desperate Housewives.

 

[LizH]

My 65-year-old mother would prove them wrong on ALL counts.

She's got a DVD player and a collection of over ninety -- count `em, NINETY -- DVDs! (She gets them from everywhere: Big Lots, the used CD/DVD store, Columbia House, etc. She is nothing if not thrifty. )

Her tastes are eclectic. She likes comedy (HUGE Adam Sandler fan -- she has just about all of his pictures), the classics ("Casablanca", "Gone with The Wind", "The Wizard of Oz", etc.), and some sci-fi (Both Shreks, Disney's "Aladdin", and Spider-man 1 & 2 -- one of the few things we can agree on. )

You can't pigeonhole anyone. It's rather simplistic to say that everyone over 40 is only going to be interested in Donna Reed, "77 Sunset Strip", and "The Danny Thomas Show" (FWIW, I'm 32 and I enjoy watching Jack Benny and Bob Hope. )

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

Given that this discussion is not exactly viewed fondly by HTF, I will tread carefully, in making my comments. Mods feel free to delete or edit this post if you feel it necessary.

Carlos, I don't think that potential for a show to be bootlegged figures high in a studio's decision. Certainly not in the cases of older shows like Batman, and Get Smart. I would think that newer shows are more vonerable to bootlegging than those older shows in the first place.
Also, I disagree that your average fan would take this root. A hardcore fan, maybe but someone that only had casual interest in the show probably wouldn't care enough to seak out the show by these methods. More devoted fans maybe, but not your typical average fans.
Lastly, one only needs to look at the Star Wars trilogy for how much bootlegging might factor in to a studio's decision in general. The original trilogy may be the most bootlegged film ever, but that fact didn't influence Lucasfilm to go ahead and release the original theatrical version, nor did it make them rush to put out the DVDs any faster. So if its not a large factor for how one of if not the most popular film franchises in the world, its probably going to be even less of a factor for Get Smart and Odd Couple.

As for Batman it was my understanding that if the original series is going to come out, it will not be the decision of just Fox as I believe that Warner has a stake in this also and things have to be worked out. Its ot just a matter of saying show X will come out on DVD and then it just becomes so, as has been mentioned it may be that it is not cost effective to release older shows because of the money that would have to be spent just to get them ready for DVD. Money that would probably have to be factored in to the overall price for the set, and I think that it is more important with older shows than newer ones to keep the price down since the older ones aren't going to sell as many as the newer ones anyway, it may be difficult to charge $50 or more for a show that many people haven't seen in years because it never sindicated very well which is also a problem for some, although not all of these shows.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

But this is not necessarily something new. ABC once had a show called Turn On (their answer to Rowan and Martin's Laugh In) that was so bad it was cancelled during its first episode. The network received so many complaints about it that they actually pulled the plug after 10 or 15 minutes, in the middle of a commercial break. IIRC when the commercials were over viewers were greetedby a rerun of some other ABC show and Turn On was never heard of again.

Regards,

Joe

 

[Mark To]

That's actually an urban legend. The show ran in its entirety and was cancelled before the second show was supposed to run the following week. I know, I watched it.

 

[Rutgar]

Mark, You never answered my post. Would you consider giving Firefly half a chance, and rent the DVD's? I still think that after you get through a few of the episodes, in proper order, that you might change you mind.