WHV Press Release: The Lord of the Rings Trilogy (Blu-ray) (1 Viewer)

[Stephen_J_H]

Originally Posted by Jarod M



Home theater enthusiasts are the only reason Blu-ray exists.

Economics are the only reason Blu-Ray exists. The technology companies and the studios put their R & D money behind BD because their revenues were dropping from DVD. It had reached near saturation point and prices had dropped to the point where DVD was ceasing to be profitable, so the companies decided to do what they do best: make it bigger and better and see if the public will bite. It took a lot longer because of the economic downturn, but it now appears to be working.

To suggest that this was all driven by HT enthusiasts is foolish and naive. They've had their influence, but technology will continue to advance as long as companies see a buck to be made.

 

[Brandon Conway]

Re-read what I said. The sales of the home theater enthusiasts are a drop in the bucket.

Look, I am well aware that many studio policies have been changed/improved with constructive criticism/feedback from the Home Theater community. But in the vast majority of those cases, it was not because of verbal pitchforks and torches, nor because of a sales boycott by a small, if rabid, section of the consumers. Especially on a title where their percentage of the whole potential sales demographic will be much smaller, like LOTR.

No, primarily there has been change when calm, collected, constructive criticism is received, and its especially helped when individuals with specific ties to the studios, be it Penton on blu-ray.com or Robert Harris, or Bill Hunt, confirm the issue as legitimate. That is when the studios listen and things improve, not when you have hyperbolic nonsense such as "WB just took a shit on LOTR, and I wish Feltestein would shove these Blu-rays up his ass" - which is a nearly verbatim quote from a deleted post at blu-ray.com by the way.

Now, THIS forum is usually much more civil. And I'm not saying the HTF community can't assist in helping things change for the better, But in terms of making a difference through sales boycotts - not gonna happen.

Home theater enthusiasts are the only reason Blu-ray exists.

Continuing to profit from Home Video sales is the reason Blu-ray exists, period. Now, is it to the studios' advantage to satisfy the more discerning modern consumer in order to gain that sale? Certainly. But let's not kid ourselves here. It's true the studios have learned that if you satisfy the HTF demographic you nearly always satisfy the less enthusiastic consumer, but that's merely the general policy to maximize sales. Deadlines, marketing departments, film elements, authoring costs, prioritizing the catalog, the general law of diminishing returns, etc., plays a part in reducing the efficiency of that ideal.

Did it help those who bought the original versions though?

In the case of Sony and The Fifth Element, they offered to upgrade for those who bought the first release. Still doesn't help those who bought the terrible House of Flying Daggers disc that came out at the same time as The Fifth Element V1, but then again, there wasn't a PR reason to re-master that one.

 

[Jarod M]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H



Economics are the only reason Blu-Ray exists. The technology companies and the studios put their R & D money behind BD because their revenues were dropping from DVD. It had reached near saturation point and prices had dropped to the point where DVD was ceasing to be profitable, so the companies decided to do what they do best: make it bigger and better and see if the public will bite. It took a lot longer because of the economic downturn, but it now appears to be working.

To suggest that this was all driven by HT enthusiasts is foolish and naive. They've had their influence, but technology will continue to advance as long as companies see a buck to be made.

I wish them luck with the 3D stuff for home use, especially if they don't have the support of most home theater enthusiasts! Maybe the master for FOTR will be fixed by the time they release it in its 3D version. By the way, it would be foolish and naive to suggest that Blu-ray is now working the way that the companies wanted it to work when they threw all that R & D money behind BD.

 

[Jarod M]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Conway



Home theater enthusiasts are the only reason Blu-ray exists.

Continuing to profit from Home Video sales is the reason Blu-ray exists, period. Now, is it to the studios' advantage to satisfy the more discerning modern consumer in order to gain that sale? Certainly. But let's not kid ourselves here. It's true the studios have learned that if you satisfy the HTF demographic you nearly always satisfy the less enthusiastic consumer, but that's merely the general policy to maximize sales. Deadlines, marketing departments, film elements, authoring costs, prioritizing the catalog, the general law of diminishing returns, etc., plays a part in reducing the efficiency of that ideal.

I agree. But this isn't about a marginal title, where the added expense cannot be justified. LOTR made 3 billion dollars from theatrical exhibition alone. It will still bring in many more millions over the next several decades, without much more investment being made to ensure that continuing return. And the release of The Hobbit will boost LOTR's profits even more.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

Originally Posted by Jarod M

Quote:

By the way, it would be foolish and naive to suggest that Blu-ray is now working the way that the companies wanted it to work when they threw all that R & D money behind BD.

Well, it's working now, but it took them almost 4 years to iron most of the glitches out. I would also note that nothing ever works exactly the way it is intented to, but usually winds up working close enough for public consumption. That's reality.

 

[Simon Massey]

Simon-
Could you provide your screen size and viewing distance? Thanks.

Sure

Screen size is 60 inch - viewing distance is about 3m

 

[David Wilkins]

Originally Posted by Brandon Conway

You vastly overestimate the reach of home theater enthusiasts on the internet. Their lost sales are the proverbial drop in the bucket.

Besides, the street date for this release is still 10 days away. Who's to say that Warner won't do such an interview/statement? If they were to do one, they would certainly time it for a few days before the actual street date, not 2-3 weeks before.

What about the 'Pirates of the Caribbean, Curse of the Black Pearl' framing issue, or the 'Gangs of New York' transfer issues? I'm sure there are a couple of others that I'm forgetting. The volume raised (or begun) in forums such as these, do have an effect, in my opinion.

 

I honestly feel that if the studios see the comments on boards such as this, that many times things will be corrected for future releases.

 

[Brandon Conway]

Originally Posted by David Wilkins

What about the 'Pirates of the Caribbean, Curse of the Black Pearl' framing issue, or the 'Gangs of New York' transfer issues? I'm sure there are a couple of others that I'm forgetting. The volume raised (or begun) in forums such as these, do have an effect, in my opinion.

IIRC, the person who demonstrated the framing issue on POTC did so in a calm, constructive manner. And GONY had a prominent person such as Robert Harris explain the problems. IMO, these were effective ways to voice concern of quality control issues. The general rhetoric in regards to this LOTR release is well beyond calm and constructive. Nor has there been anybody with prominent access to those at WB speaking about it yet. This could very well be a Bram Stoker's Dracula (a total non-issue), or it may in fact be an actual issue. It's too early to know.

The closest we've got to any actual feedback are Jeff's statements. And he recently added this doozy:

I already stated that large amounts of noise reduction (far inferior to today's) were used during the post process on LOTR.

If that's the case, and in post-production back in 2001 they went DNR-like crazy in processing FOTR, there's really nothing they can do now to make it better looking.

 

[Paul Hillenbrand]

Here is a link where Robert Harris commented this morning on The Lord of the Rings Trilogy (Blu-ray) as a "New Line" Product that WB had to work with.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/3087500-post12871.html

 

[Brandon Conway]

What I gather from that is that Mr. Harris' typical WB contacts are less helpful in this instance where the film was a New Line product.

Here's hoping for further insight into what he stated (about "anomolies" and "eccentricities") here on the HTF in his patented "Few words about..." reviews.

 

[Jarod M]

The emphasis on New Line makes sense. We've seen some less than stellar New Line product on Blu-ray.

The thing is, there is no New Line now, so it is up to Warner to deal with any problems that arise in releasing these old New Line properties.

 

[CraigF]

It is still panic-inducing enough seeing the DTS logo on a WB product.

 

[Dave H]

Originally Posted by Brandon Conway




IIRC, the person who demonstrated the framing issue on POTC did so in a calm, constructive manner. And GONY had a prominent person such as Robert Harris explain the problems. IMO, these were effective ways to voice concern of quality control issues. The general rhetoric in regards to this LOTR release is well beyond calm and constructive. Nor has there been anybody with prominent access to those at WB speaking about it yet. This could very well be a Bram Stoker's Dracula (a total non-issue), or it may in fact be an actual issue. It's too early to know.

The closest we've got to any actual feedback are Jeff's statements. And he recently added this doozy:

I already stated that large amounts of noise reduction (far inferior to today's) were used during the post process on LOTR.

If that's the case, and in post-production back in 2001 they went DNR-like crazy in processing FOTR, there's really nothing they can do now to make it better looking.

What Jeff is missing, based on this comment, is that Fellowship should still have film grain structure in place. Fellowship has quite a bit of film grain structure missing in various scenes which supports the idea that additional DNR/filtering was used for the BD which was unnecessary. That is the issue. In addition, as has been pointed out, the broadcast actually has more detail than the BD in some scenes. This is a fact (although some want to deny it).

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarod M

The emphasis on New Line makes sense. We've seen some less than
stellar New Line product on Blu-ray.

The thing is, there is no New Line now, so it is up to Warner to deal with
any problems that arise in releasing these old New Line properties.

-------------------------------------

Except that Warner had previously stated that New Line titles that were already in the BD production pipeline *before* that operation got folded into Warner would likely get released as is (even though that was more than a year ago).

And as noted, the unexpected use of DTS (from the old NL days) on top of it being originally announced/expected a long while back suggests that this may indeed be a holdover production from the old NL days w/ the potential PQ issues linked to such.

Then again, it's not really like Warner itself has a particularly blemish-free recent history anyway.

_Man_

 

[Michael Reuben]

Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong


. . . the unexpected use of DTS . . .

Warner has been using DTS lossless on much of its recent Blu-ray product. I've been wondering when people would start to notice. Examples:

The Blind Side
The Neverending Story
Clash of the Titans
Where the Wild Things Are
The Music Man
Grumpy Old Men/Grumpier Old Men
Mystic River

 

[Bryan^H]

Quote from Highdefdigest review regarding the video quality:

"The Fellowship of the Ring' is a peculiar piece, as it is sporadic, random, intermittently brilliant and tragic...and yes, we're still talking about the video, here. Detail is far from consistent, as from shot to shot in any scene, it's almost like watching the film from multiple grade sources culled together. There are moments were distance shots boast brilliant clarity and the finest of minute detail, then a close up will follow that's muddled beyond belief. While I cannot say what created this issue, I can say that DNR (yes, Digital Noise Reduction) played a large part. There are numerous excessively smoothed and muddy moments, and they're hardly difficult to spot."


-Looks like I'll be skipping this after all......Oh well.

 

[Brad Vautrinot]

Just cancelled my pre-order for the above reasons.

Brad

 

[Flemming.K]

I ain't putting down money for this release. Looking af some DVD shots compared to the BD, reveals more details in skin on the DVD, even though hair is more detailed and sharp. Someone has been messing excessively with the blur effect. This looks BAD!

Like I rather watch my DVD of Gladiator upscaled than the new BD, because skin looks better, I will do the same for LOTR.

 

[Brandon Conway]

Originally Posted by Flemming.K

I ain't putting down money for this release. Looking af some DVD shots compared to the BD, reveals more details in skin on the DVD, even though hair is more detailed and sharp. Someone has been messing excessively with the blur effect. This looks BAD!

Like I rather watch my DVD of Gladiator upscaled than the new BD, because skin looks better, I will do the same for LOTR.

I've yet to see DVD-BD comparisons. All the comparisons I've seen out there are of an HD broadcast and the BD. Every review I've read has stated this release in much better than the upscaled DVDs from 2002-2004, no matter how negative the reviews have been.