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Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Ronald Epstein, Sep 18, 2008.
Okay, so right out of the gate...
How good should we expect the 3D on our displays to be?
I have seen some outstanding 3D from this film at CEDIA on
displays specifically made for the format. However, I am
skeptical over how good this will actually look on home displays.
From the package it appears that they'll be using an anaglyph encoding of the film, which just means blue and red fringing placed on object outlines to suggest 3D in a color film. The red/blue cellophane glasses will trash the color values of the film and the 3D will be weak in the extreme. So you'll have lousy image quality and lousy 3D.
No lossless = no sale. Thanks again for a half-assed product Warner!
I guess I shouldn't be too surprised with Warner, after all, they rarely included lossless tracks on their HD-DVDs, so they're following suite here. It's quite sad really as the format demands it, and, the space is there for it. That was the main reason I stopped buying HD-DVDs, no lossless.
My wife and I just saw this film a few weeks ago in Digital 3-D at the local multiplex, and it looked fantastic.
The 2-D version will likely look great at home, but the 3-D version will not come close to the 3-D experience in the theaters. The analglyph 3-D format being used on the DVD and BD still produces headaches and works best on black and white movies.
I'll wait until REAL-D develops a home version of their technology.
how can you tell anything from that pic above.
the glasses look like they are not the red and blue version.
and the art on the disc doesn't look like it says anything.
^ Agree, the glasses aren't obvious what the lenses are. OTOH, I've never seen a set with polarized lenses that didn't have the frames made of plastic (doesn't mean they aren't out there...), and those look like cardboard. [Or maybe they mean the *glasses* themselves are 3-D, which will sure make handling them easier...]
Geez, I have tried watching some analglyphic 3-D stuff at home and it doesn't seem to work for me, maybe my eyes are screwed?? Hope this will be better.
Are people assuming because it only says DD that there isn't lossless audio? Or are they making a best guess based on some recent events?
Note the remark that you must buy NOW if you want to get the 3-D version. And at least you can download the 2-D movie, rather than include a digital copy and calling it a 2-disc set. Hope the SD is a DVD-18, what with it being a flipper...
I saw the advertisement and was interested until I saw that it was only going to have a lossy Dolby track. I have passed up other titles that I really wanted and this title will be no different. I hope that WB can get there act together and offer lossless audio on every Blu-ray title.
This will be anaglyph, I can assure you. The only other ways to do home 3D are the quasi 3D Pulfrich Illusion (Darkened lens over one eye which gives the illusion of depth depending on lighting cues and horizontal movement) and field sequential, which requires an outboard processor box and LCD shutter glasses, and will not work with progressive displays.
As for polarized glasses with cardboard frames, they did exist @ one point; I had a pair from when I saw Spacehunter: Adventures in the Forbidden Zone in 1983.
^ If it truly doesn't have lossless audio then I won't be buying it anyway (talk about another flick that should have it).
I notice I might have spelt anaglyphic incorrectly, but probably not in the WB case...
Craig, you DID have it right. This anal-glyphic 3D will look like ass.
^ That spelling was a (Freudian) slip, I do try to spell correctly even though I also like joking around...just lucky this time...
I also really hate to dump on WB (re the audio), they have been so good with their DVD releases through the years, going back to Contact which was one of the very first DVDs I bought. Something doesn't seem right there now. I expected them to be leaders in technical home video presentation. They certainly have the corporate ability and the knowledge. Something has been derailed, there has been a definite change in interpretation as to what is important in how a movie looks and sounds for home video. They may be right on the marketing side according to however they account their numbers, but other studios are certainly blowing past them on the technical side for new movie BDs. They should match, otherwise be known for inferior BD product.
I think you can set your guilt and concerns aside, Craig. I don't see any need to dump on Warner. Let's not forget that Warner Home Video just released the spectacular "How the West Was Won" restoration on Blu-ray. Plus they've released wonderful HD discs of catalog titles like "Casablanca" and "The Adventures of Robin Hood." If something derailed and resulted in those releases, let's pull a few more rails off the track.
Failure to provide lossless audio and tossing in an anaglyphic 3D version as an extra for an utterly inconsequential film is really not something to condemn them for, IMO. I enjoyed this movie in the theater because it was simple fun, but it's not a particularly good movie and definitely does not deserve royal treatment.
I mean NO disrespect to anyone who favors lossless audio -- I also prefer its wider dynamic range, improved clarity of dialog, and enhanced impact -- but I sincerely think that the emphasis on it has become a fetish rather than a preference for some people.
I'm not dumping on Warner; I'm just perfectly happy to wait until a more viable form of 3D exists on the home front.
We did a report on 3D in our Cedia Roundup Thread.
Basically, display manufacturers are revving up to offer 3D for the
home. I have seen some outstanding 3D in action, particularly from
Mitsubishi, who showed off Journey To The Center Of The Earth.
At one point, I watched fellow viewers jump back in their seats. I was
just getting to the party at that point and had just put my glasses on
so I missed the pivotal part. However, what I did see afterwards was
very good. Objects came directly off the screen right at the viewer --
just as impressive as what I remember seeing at Disney theme parks.
Da-Lite also makes 3D ready front projection screens.
We saw a demo of front projection 3D from the company. The
problem was, the demo material they were showing was horrible. It was
difficult to tell whether the front projection offered equal 3D quality to that of
what we saw on the Mitsubishi DLP.
As you can see, you need to buy a display that is 3D ready. These displays
are rather expensive. Additionally, Mitsubishi was showing it off on
a DLP display which doesn't help as many people are migrating towards
plasma and LCD flat panels these days. Another problem is, there are
many competing 3D formats. This means, once again, the consumer
has to choose between multiple formats and hope the one they choose
becomes the standard. Lastly, it seems there is little to no studio
support right now to get more 3D releases out there, which is
understandable since most early adopters don't have these displays
in their home.
I really hope that 3D becomes standard in the home one day. The
problem is, despite the fact we have seen 3D hardware at Cedia over
the past two years, I'll be damned if I have seen any of that hardware
in any store or it even being talked about on the Internet.
One last food for thought on 3D in the home....
Theaters have been losing patrons for years because of the ability
to replicate the movie experience in the home. Now theaters are
turning to 3D to bring those people back. Perhaps there is a struggle
not to rush optimal 3D quality to the homes so that theaters don't
continue to lose their share of viewers.
I'm guessing all of the 3-D video demos at Cedia used either polarizing 3-D glasses, or LCS (liquid crystal shutter) 3-D glasses running at 120hz. These are superior 3-D video formats that require 3-D ready/capable displays and often additional hardware.
So unlike the 3-D video segment of JOURNEY that you viewed at Cedia, the Blu-Ray version will be presented in the lower grade anaglyph version. Anaglyph 3-D is typically encoded as red/cyan (POLAR EXPRESS will be encoded this way) but from what I've heard, JOURNEY will likely use a slight anaglyphic variant- Perhaps Magenta and Green.
Anaglyphic 3-D is what is often referred to as "3-D ready out of the box" by the marketing folk. But... of course that doesn't make it GOOD 3-D. Color anaglyph 3-D on video tends to have more ghosting and distorted colors, due to the colored lenes as well as the restricted 4:2:0 color space used in Blu-Ray and DVD. Anaglyph Blu-Ray can offer a slight improvement.. but not much.
Before we let that get us down-
SMPTE, the CEA, and others are working on setting standards for 3-D video. This would help avoid marketing confusion and make it easier for studios when releasing 3-D videos. (be they classic 3-D titles from the 1950's, 80's and newer releases) in superior 3-D video formats. Let's hope everyone agrees on a unified standard and these anaglyph versions are temporary vs status quo.
They deserve better.
Newegg.com - iZ3D H220Z1 Black 22" 5ms Widescreen 3D Gaming LCD Monitor 250 cd/m2 700:1 - LCD Monitors
^3-D LCD display that uses polarized glasses to re-create 3-D. if u add polarized encodes on separate discs i think u can re-create the same experience @home using either TWO separate front projectors or buying displays like this. unfortunately that would make it profile 3.0 or somn and u need to re-upgrade all of ur equipment to keep up with hdmi 2.x spex MORE MONEY!
i have seen most of the 3-D movies on IMAX 3-D if possible. i just luv it! beowulf and journey 3-D aren't the greatest movie in the world content-wise, but the technology that they demonstrate shows that this is, indeed the future of commercial cinema and eventually home cinema. it is quite inevitable.
Actually, BD supports twin 1080p video streams, which is why CE manufacturers are seriously considering polarisation or shuttered glasses as a viable option for 3D ready displays. Will it require a next level Profile? Maybe, but I for one am looking forward to the possibilities.