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A Few Words About While we wait for A few words about...™ The Rodgers & Hammerstein Collection -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

John Maher_289910

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Joe Lugoff said:
About Hollywood fiddling around with GUYS AND DOLLS:

I read somewhere that the reason "Bushel and a Peck" was removed from the film version was because Samuel Goldwyn didn't understand what those words meant. He assumed they were "dirty," slang for women's and men's thingamajigs, respectively.

I'm well aware that just because you read something in a book that doesn't mean it's true, but with Samuel Goldwyn, it very well might be.
That's funny. I never heard that, before. It might be true. I always assumed it was done for Oscar song consideration. The same reason "My White Knight" was replaced by "Being in Love", in THE MUSIC MAN. You have to have an original song.
 

John Maher_289910

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Mark Booth said:
I don't care what Hollywood changes as long as the film is entertaining.

That pertains to films based on true stories too. Hollywood can do whatever it wants (as far as I'm concerned) as long as they produce something that entertains my brain. If I wanted to see the "real" story I'd watch a documentary.

Mark
I don't either, especially if the changes are done for cinematic purposes. It's when they're not, (like GUYS AND DOLLS and HOW TO SUCCEED..., and others) that it bothers me.
 

Mark Booth

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Chuck Pennington said:
I think this deserves posting again.

Some reference material:

http://www.theasc.com/magazine/june05/postfocus/page1.html

http://cineric.com/films/restoration-showcase/#3

http://cineric.com/films/restoration-showcase/#7

These are very interesting articles about the 2005 film restorations of CAROUSEL and THE KING AND I. Pictures are included.
The cineric article links a publicity still for the 'King and I' (taken from a slightly different angle than what we see in the film). Here's that image:

i-Ccxv4v5.png



Here is the corresponding screenshot (as close as I could get) from the Blu-ray:

i-RLXk5Z3.jpg



As "too blue" as the 'King and I' is through most of the Blu-ray, many of the closeup shots are much better. And, in this case, the royal blue sash that Brynner is wearing has become quite a bit less royal.

Mark
 

CMNash

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Mark Booth said:
As "too blue" as the 'King and I' is through most of the Blu-ray, many of the closeup shots are much better. And, in this case, the royal blue sash that Brynner is wearing has become quite a bit less royal.
I understand what you're getting at. However, there is one problem in this comparison: the camera used to take the publicity shot might not (most likely not) be using the same film stock that the motion picture camera is using. Different film stocks react and record light very differently. I learnt this the hard way when I was learning about 35mm photography in high school. The Kodak stock I was using emphasised reds, whereas the Fuji stock emphasised greens. It nearly drove me crazy.
 

Wayne_j

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Lromero1396 said:
Judging by Fox's past reputation, a reissue of The King and I is not going to happen. I'm very displeased, since I've put off seeing the film for a long time to wait for a superior presentation. Alas, the color palate has been modernized with too much blue. Or it could be due to yellow dye fade.

In any case, it doesn't look like '50s DeLuxe color, which is tragic.
FOX did correct Patton.
 

rsmithjr

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Mark Booth said:
The cineric article links a publicity still for the 'King and I' (taken from a slightly different angle than what we see in the film). Here's that image:

i-Ccxv4v5.png



Here is the corresponding screenshot (as close as I could get) from the Blu-ray:

i-RLXk5Z3.jpg



As "too blue" as the 'King and I' is through most of the Blu-ray, many of the closeup shots are much better. And, in this case, the royal blue sash that Brynner is wearing has become quite a bit less royal.

Mark
This is something I have already noted generically. While "blue" overall, the Blu-ray color timing actually takes true blues and makes them a sort of muddy greyish blue. Another example from the film is the Kralahome's shirt near the end. It is a cobalt blue in the 2005 DVD and also the new 35mm print (which I have seen), while it is this funny muddy blue on the Blu-ray.

This makes the film almost impossible to correct by adjusting your projector's settings. You add enough yellow to make the flesh tones and golds look reasonable, and the true blues become grey.
 

bigshot

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Mark Booth said:
As "too blue" as the 'King and I' is through most of the Blu-ray, many of the closeup shots are much better. And, in this case, the royal blue sash that Brynner is wearing has become quite a bit less royal.
When I look at color correction, I usually look to see if there is a lot of separation in hues. When all of a specific hue are shoved together into the same hue, it usually means that a drastic correction has taken place. Looking at your images, there is a lot more variation in the hues (particularly in the light coming in the window at the rear) on the blu-ray. The flesh tones and gold are better too. The top publicity image looks like someone shoved a whole bunch of red into it.

I haven't seen the blu-ray yet, so I'm withholding judgement for now. But that particular frame grab looks pretty darn good.
 

rsmithjr

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John Maher_289910 said:
Perhaps they should try fixing their issues, prior to release.
Completely agree. However, the issue under discussion was their record of fixing problems.

Personal comment: as a CTO of Silicon Valley firms, I have generally had a QA team reporting to me. I just wrote a test plan for the next release this morning. From this perspective:
1. The problems with these disks were instantly recognizable to me the first night I watched portions of the movies. Totally obvious, not subtle, anybody with any experience with these movies could have recognized "The King and I" color issue immediately. Doesn't require a professional QA team looking at the extant reference sources to see what is wrong with it.
2. When our stuff has bugs (yes, there is always something!) we fess up and fix it. Sometimes one person's bug is another person's "feature", but you learn pretty quick when you have made a blunder of design as well as of execution. Fixing things is often a great way to build customer trust because they see that you care and are responsive. People love being told that they were "right".
 

Chuck Pennington

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2005 HD Master
KINGANDImore00001.jpeg


2014 HD Master
KINGANDImore00002.jpeg


I made both of these captures with VLC using the same settings. I tried to get the exact same frame as rsmithjr as above, but couldn't quite get it - so I made a very close one from the Blu-ray myself. As you can see, we got the same kind of color and contrast on both of our captures.
 

Mark-P

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And yet her gloves are quite clearly white in both captures, so the blue tint obviously doesn't effect the entire movie. I don't think anyone has posted any comparison pictures of the blue faces in the "Uncle Tom" sequence so that we could see that they really were white.
 

Mark Booth

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bigshot said:
I haven't seen the blu-ray yet, so I'm withholding judgement for now. But that particular frame grab looks pretty darn good.
Most of the closeups look pretty decent. But I'm VERY confident that the sash that Brynner is wearing is supposed to be royal blue.

Mark
 

AnthonyClarke

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Thanks Doug for your very clear analysis of the Carousel audio track.
I can hear what you mean, but overall, I have to say BRAVO FOX for such a glorious transfer given what elements they had at their disposal.
I never thought I'd see Carousel looking quite so beautiful.
Much of the movie is shot at night or in twilight. The depth and clarity of these very dark shots is awesome. The velvety pools of water with their luminous reflections, the contrast of deep sky against carefully lit faces; these make for a wonderful viewing experience. I thought it looked promising on my 46 inch Plasma but last night I powered up my 150 inch projector and just melted into the landscape, the ambience and the emotion.
My immersion ended just five minutes before my wife's train from Melbourne arrived and I had to return to my normal Woodend environment. Can't wait for the next visit to this magic land, so beautifully renewed for us by Fox.
 

MarkW2

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I just watched the Uncle Tom's Cabin section of King and I on the sd dvd, and the faces are indeed blue, not white. I'm starting to think the blu-ray is going to be correct, and beautiful.
 

Doug Bull

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True 'Spooky' Story.

The other evening just after dark I was alone in the house watching and evaluating "THE KING AND I".
It was raining outside and the chilling atmosphere was punctuated by the occasional clap of thunder.

Suddenly I became aware of somebody (or something) banging loudly on the front door.
"Who the Hell would be banging like that and why don't they use the door bell?"
I pause the player, get out of my chair, meekly descended those stairs that sometime earlier I had bolted down when that parcel had arrived.

I very cautiously open the door to find that - there's no one there!!! :huh:
There are no wet footprints on the front verandah.
I call out, but there's no response.
"Maybe it was the back door"
I retreat to the back door, even more puzzled that anybody could be there as they would have had to climb over the high fence or open a locked side gate.

Again no one there. It has become somewhat of a scary puzzlement.

I nervously return to my chair to continue with the viewing.
I click the resume play button and would you believe, there is Deborah Kerr getting out of bed to answer a loud knock on her bedroom door !!.

The outcome of all this?
My Surround speakers are working very well, too well in fact.

What a Dick-head. :blink:

I'm too embarrassed to sign my name this time.
 

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