A Few Words About While we wait for A few words about...™ The Rodgers & Hammerstein Collection -- in Blu-ray (2 Viewers)

[Rick Thompson]

So, what have we learned here?

The King and I is a complete botch, color-wise, and heads should roll.
The King and I looks fine.
The King and I looks great and I like the color.
I like the DVD better.
The DVD isn't accurate.
Hang the colorist (perhaps some would prefer the crimson-faded Eastman prints color)

Oklahoma! ToddAO version looks amazing but the sound is a complete botch. Heads should roll. Recall!
Oklahoma! ToddAO version looks amazing and sounds amazing with its wide dynamic range. Bravo!

Carousel is too dark and the iTunes version has different color (read better)
Carousel is a tad dark but the color is right.
Carousel looked nothing like this
Carousel looks great, best ever on home video.
Heads should roll/Bravo

State Fair looks okay considering its age and the fact that Fox threw away all its three-strip negatives.

The Sound of Music is old news. But I distinctly remember a golden hue somewhere and Julie Andrew's blonde hair is some other color. What the hell?

South Pacific is old news.

And there you have it. Everyone is right, everyone is wrong, everyone knows everything and no one knows anything - in equal measures. Hence, the wonderful world of Blu-ray.

Great post. We're at a situation where William Goldman's dictum about Hollywood applies: "Nobody knows anything."

 

[Noel Aguirre]

Agreed. The soundtrack has a very wide sound stage with good depth. Instruments are carefully delineated. It's one of the best musical presentations I've heard from a BD. In my system, the vocals are not as prominent (compared with the instruments) as in the 4.0 CinemaScope version. I assume this was a choice made intentionally in the mix, but it may account for some of the complaints. To my ears, though, the sound is not muddled or botched. It's fantastic.

A 20 year old Oklahoma THX LD is better. You should n't have to crank it up so high- Fox messed up Hello Dolly the exact same way. No oomph. And there is a echo in some schemes.
For comparison The King and I is the way sound should be on a disc.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Great post. We're at a situation where William Goldman's dictum about Hollywood applies: "Nobody knows anything."

Maybe true, but we sure like to act like we know something.

 

[Tom Logan]

So if Goldman's dictum is correct, and Goldman is himself a Hollywood insider, then of course we can't trust his dictum.

More to the thread point, I appreciate the expertise, the screenshots, the impressions, the confessions of subjectivity, and the technical assistance offered in these threads. At the very least, it's a copout and meaningless hyperbole to retreat into "Nobody knows anything." People in this thread definitely know their shit, even allowing for differences in hardware, set-up, and sensory acuity.

And I, for one, want to hear from them.

 

[nealg]

Color issues aside...

Regarding the i-Tunes vs. Blu-ray "King and I" caps above, the i-Tunes image appears squashed, or horizontally stretched. Faces and bodies appear correct, or I should say, more natural, in the blu-ray caps.

So, at least the blu-ray has one thing going for it.

 

[Hollywoodaholic]

You might need a lithium to get through this thread due to the mood swings from those who were so ecstatic and looking forward to this release to those who soon went blue at the King and I coloring.

When I think of all the times I've watched these movies on black and white round tube television screens, or with faded colors, pan and scan, tinny audio, green scratch lines running down the picture and non-stop commercial interruptions, well... count me in as someone very contented to have them like this. I was not even expecting to ever see blu-ray editions. It didn't take much to please us before, but we sure got picky.

I thank my mother for taking me to these live plays as a child, constantly playing the original Broadway cast recordings, and making me a fan of these films for life as a way of remember her gift of the love of music, staying the cock-eyed optimist, finding our way through the dark storms of life, and embracing love when we can find it. The joyful dance I had with my mother at my wedding was a fun waltz to "Shall We Dance," and I quietly (and poorly) sang "O What a Beautiful Morning" to her as she lay dying in hospice a few years ago.

I'm happy with these.

 

[bryan4999]

So, what have we learned here?

The King and I is a complete botch, color-wise, and heads should roll.
The King and I looks fine.
The King and I looks great and I like the color.
I like the DVD better.
The DVD isn't accurate.
Hang the colorist (perhaps some would prefer the crimson-faded Eastman prints color)

Oklahoma! ToddAO version looks amazing but the sound is a complete botch. Heads should roll. Recall!
Oklahoma! ToddAO version looks amazing and sounds amazing with its wide dynamic range. Bravo!

Carousel is too dark and the iTunes version has different color (read better)
Carousel is a tad dark but the color is right.
Carousel looked nothing like this
Carousel looks great, best ever on home video.
Heads should roll/Bravo

State Fair looks okay considering its age and the fact that Fox threw away all its three-strip negatives.

The Sound of Music is old news. But I distinctly remember a golden hue somewhere and Julie Andrew's blonde hair is some other color. What the hell?

South Pacific is old news.

And there you have it. Everyone is right, everyone is wrong, everyone knows everything and no one knows anything - in equal measures. Hence, the wonderful world of Blu-ray.

I think it is interesting that everyone has been unanimously enthusiastic about the visuals of Oklahoma!, and yet divided to the extreme on King and I (and to a lesser extent Carousel). I watched K&I on Vudu last night at the highest quality they offer, they say 1080p, I have no way to verify that, but on my projector at 110" the detail looked great. More importantly to me, however, the color looked beautiful to my eye. If I could have that on blu-ray I'd be more than happy. But, then, I don't know anything.

 

[compson]

A 20 year old Oklahoma THX LD is better. You should n't have to crank it up so high- Fox messed up Hello Dolly the exact same way. No oomph. And there is a echo in some schemes. For comparison The King and I is the way sound should be on a disc.

I don't have to crank it up very high. I wonder if you have an amplifier issue.

 

[Michael1]

"And there you have it. Everyone is right, everyone is wrong, everyone knows everything and no one knows anything - in equal measures."

But some people present their opinions as if they are sure they know everything, while others are less adamant about it. Also, some people's opinions are much more persuasively argued than others' opinions, based on what is observable in these video transfers.

 

[Reed Grele]

And as Groucho Marx once said:

”Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west. And if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce, they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.”

 

[John Hermes]

I disagree and agree at the same time and vice versa and also versa vice. The clear answer is to put out a black-and-white version of The King and I. Problem solved.

Then Dr. Sven would start talking about the "color" of the black and white.

 

[ROclockCK]

Wait. That's a Costco? All the ones I've been to looks like a ginormous warehouse with no particular arrangement to their television section. Some are displayed on large shelves within an aisle; some on end caps; some on top of the actual boxes of television. They never made it fun or easy to do side-by-side comparisons.

Nope. That was just an example of the range of out-of-the-box HDTV images I observed. In Costco, they were all lined up at an angle on top of the warehouse rows. Actually, the differences were somewhat more dramatic than this photo...I didn't spot any from the same manufacturer which were even accidentally close.

This was not a scientific analysis, merely stray observation.

 

[lukejosephchung]

Due to the fact that my Wells Fargo checking/Visa debit account was fleeced by hackers in the Atlanta, GA. area 2+weeks ago, my shipment of this box set was delayed until payment could be made, which was 2 days ago...the discussion about the QC of these BD's is all over the map after reading 570+posts...I'll make up my own mind when my copy arrives on Monday...until then, I'll keep entertaining myself by reading the observations/opinions of the membership on this thread!!!

 

[MarkW2]

I can't wait till we an official review. From Robert Harris perhaps? It seems we have heard from only fans so far. We heard some interesting things about the set, but no official reviews yet.

 

[Matt Hough]

I can't wait till we an official review. From Robert Harris perhaps? It seems we have heard from only fans so far. We heard some interesting things about the set, but no official reviews yet.

My review copy has not arrived. His probably hasn't either.

 

[rsmithjr]

Areas like original color balance of a film are not totally a matter of opinion even though they are tricky. Three points:

1. There is a reasonable range for differing opinions.
2. Beyond that range, opinions are not reasonable. This is a statistical matter to some extent.
3. Most importantly, there are ways to narrow if not resolve the disagreement in a scientific manner.

Some things we can do:
1. Consult a number of people who saw it in original release.
2. Consult original dye-transfer prints if they exist. [I understand that The King and I had dye-transfer TRAILERS, does anyone have one?]

This is not just a matter of opinion or consulting an oracular authority to decide the matter. It can be handled rationally and scientifically.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Areas like original color balance of a film are not totally a matter of opinion even though they are tricky. Three points:

1. There is a reasonable range for differing opinions.
2. Beyond that range, opinions are not reasonable. This is a statistical matter to some extent.
3. Most importantly, there are ways to narrow if not resolve the disagreement in a scientific manner.

Some things we can do:
1. Consult a number of people who saw it in original release.
2. Consult original dye-transfer prints if they exist. [I understand that The King and I had dye-transfer TRAILERS, does anyone have one?]

This is not just a matter of opinion or consulting an oracular authority to decide the matter. It can be handled rationally and scientifically.

I have a hard time thinking anybody can remember exact details from an original viewing, almost 60 years ago.

 

[Doug Bull]

I disagree and agree at the same time and vice versa and also versa vice. The clear answer is to put out a black-and-white version of The King and I. Problem solved.

The end of the problem. ( or is it )

I personally think the grey scale is all wrong.!! The blacks are too heavy, the whites don't seem right, the dress isn't how I remember it and as for that edge enhancement...

Now where did I put my old "The King & I" soundtrack LP? I'm sure it has better sound.

Doug.

 

[AnthonyClarke]

Tomorrows' delivery day!
I've installed my brand-new 150 inch projector screen, done all projector alignments and everything's ready for tommorrow night's testings of each and every disc!
I just hope my B & W sound system copes with the Oklahoma sound levels! And thanks Doug for the King and I warning .. I'll adjust for less blacks and see if I can swap that dress for something simpler...

 

[haineshisway]

The end of the problem. ( or is it )

I personally think the grey scale is all wrong.!! The blacks are too heavy, the whites don't seem right, the dress isn't how I remember it and as for that edge enhancement...

king bw.jpg

Now where did I put my old "The King & I" soundtrack LP? I'm sure it has better sound.

Doug.

Not to mention being vertically and horizontally stretched. Recall! Rolling heads!