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A Few Words About While we wait for A few words about...™ The Rodgers & Hammerstein Collection -- in Blu-ray (2 Viewers)

KPmusmag

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Carousel isn't right, either, but I'm not sure the problem is as severe as K&I. SD first and then BR in these comparisons. Notice how the skin tones stay natural even in the dark scenes on the SD, while they are cold on the BR. Also notice that there is more detail in the dark scenes on the SD. In the June scene, the costumes look more vividly colorful on the SD than they do on the BR.

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Stephen_J_H

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SD looks artificially sharpened and boosted, which is not unusual for SD. There is also a flatness to skin tones in the SD captures, which appear more naturally graduated in the BD captures. Differences in colour can also be attributed to fading.
 

Will Krupp

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Although darker, I have to say I much prefer the look of the CAROUSEL blu in terms of color tone.

Interesting that there also seems to be image missing here as well.
 

ahollis

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Tom Logan said:
It will be interesting to see if all screenings are at 60FPS.
Yes it will, when Peter Jackson was discussing this for Hobbit, we learned that our "older" digital Projectors (installed in 2001) could not be upgraded to that Frame rate. The rest of the "newer" digital projectors could be upgraded to show the higher frame rate but at a cost of around $2500 each. We choice to pass on the higher frame rate. Haven't had discussions on Avatar 2 yet. Waiting on more information from both studio and Christie.
 

bryan4999

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Will Krupp said:
Although darker, I have to say I much prefer the look of the CAROUSEL blu in terms of color tone.

Interesting that there also seems to be image missing here as well.
Hm, I don't, especially in the "June" scene. I find the warmer colors on the SD more pleasing.
 

Will Krupp

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bryan4999 said:
Hm, I don't, especially in the "June" scene. I find the warmer colors on the SD more pleasing.
I'm sorry but ALL I can think of when ever ANYBODY mentions "June is Bustin' Out All Over" is the supreme spectacle of Leslie Uggams forgetting the words during a performance on the National Mall and just making them up as she went along. My friend had this on VHS about 20 years ago and it would make us HOWL!

 

CMNash

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ahollis said:
We keep comparing CAROUSEL's SD and the Blu-Ray as if the SD is correct. It is entirely possible that the SD was enhanced while the Blu is closer to being correct and true to the Deluxe Color scheme
And of course, it's been stated in this thread -- and in many other threads too -- that we cannot use previous home releases as reference material. Yes, the previous DVD was brighter but it looks like it was contrast and/or gamma enhanced. As RAH would caution, one has to go back to the earliest prints (perhaps an answer or internegative print) to find out what was intended. As it is now, Carousel is pleasing to watch. Perhaps they referenced timings from prints, and what we are seeing is within the range of 'original intention'.

However, I also understand many of the complaints. On the one hand, there are pressures to present the film as near original as possible to please the 'authentic' crowd. On the other hand, a colourist and/or mastering engineer has to calculate what will project a reasonable image in the various home set ups. What may look good on the big screen, may not exactly have the same effect with multitude of variations out there in home theatre and projection. Furthermore, the expectations of the 'non-authentic' crowd may be very different than those of the 'authentic' crowd. This ultimately affects sales.

Is there a compromise? Possibly. But I'm not exactly sure what it is.
 

CMNash

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Will Krupp said:
I'm sorry but ALL I can think of when ever ANYBODY mentions "June is Bustin' Out All Over" is the supreme spectacle of Leslie Uggams forgetting the words during a performance on the National Mall and just making them up as she went along. My friend had this on VHS about 20 years ago and it would make us HOWL!
I nearly died watching that! Thanks for the link. With all the made up words, she was almost channelling the vocal style of Patti Lupone. (PS. I actually like Patti Lupone. But her diction and enunciation is all over the place at times.)
 

Joe Caps

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When I lived in Los Angeles, I was invited to many "private" showings of many films
One was at the TV aacademy, a stereo showing of Carousel. interestingly made up of different reels from different prints, including first release faded deluxe, some original IB Tech Prints and British Tech prints from the original release.
The prints were nice and bright.
Example - the first scene with misses mullin should be easy to see, even though at night.
"This was a Real Nice Clambake," is a night scene but lit by lamps and campfires.
there is no accounting why it is so dark on the new Blu.
 

rsmithjr

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I was able to make some gamma and brightness adjustments to Carousel (plus a bit of green) that made me very pleased with the result. Considering the first print I saw in 1961 was totally cyan (but otherwise perfect), I guess things are getting better. :)

The King and I is still a different story. I tried another evening of adjustments to it and it just doesn't make it. Comparing to my now-treasured LD, one of the frustrations is that deeply blue objects on the LD have a bluish-gray look. For example, the kralahome's shirt in the waltz scene near the end is a combalt blue on the LD (and the most recent 35mm print I saw of it). My efforts are mainly adding green and red while subtracting blue, and that shirt ends up gray.


Bob
 

chadHobbick

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So are the versions of South Pacific and Sound of Music the same as the previously released versions?

Sound of Music is my first RH musical I ever saw, then Oklahoma, and just recently Carousel which I fell in love with and ranks high in my favorite musicals list. I have yet to see State Fair, the King and I , and South Pacific (even though I already own the original Blu-ray release) but I will get to them soon.

I'm not glad to hear about the King and I having so many issues. Why does it seem when a studio puts out these box sets of never before released discs to the market, ala the Alfred Hitchcock set last year, there are always some films that fall through the cracks when it comes to being prepped for Blu-ray. I wonder if Amazon asking for an exclusive is somewhat at fault for this? Is it possible they rushed the studio?

I'm going to pop in the Todd-AO Oklahoma this weekend and based off of everybody else's raves I'm excited for this.
 

Rob_Ray

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THE SOUND OF MUSIC is definitely the earlier release. When I put the new bluray in my machine, it asked me if I wanted to resume where I had previously left off watching.
 

OliverK

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CMNash said:
And of course, it's been stated in this thread -- and in many other threads too -- that we cannot use previous home releases as reference material. Yes, the previous DVD was brighter but it looks like it was contrast and/or gamma enhanced. As RAH would caution, one has to go back to the earliest prints (perhaps an answer or internegative print) to find out what was intended. As it is now, Carousel is pleasing to watch. Perhaps they referenced timings from prints, and what we are seeing is within the range of 'original intention'. However, I also understand many of the complaints. On the one hand, there are pressures to present the film as near original as possible to please the 'authentic' crowd. On the other hand, a colourist and/or mastering engineer has to calculate what will project a reasonable image in the various home set ups. What may look good on the big screen, may not exactly have the same effect with multitude of variations out there in home theatre and projection. Furthermore, the expectations of the 'non-authentic' crowd may be very different than those of the 'authentic' crowd. This ultimately affects sales. Is there a compromise? Possibly. But I'm not exactly sure what it is.
Mastering for home theater is easy: Make it look reasonably close to what it looked like in first run theaters with the added advantages of digital technolgy these days and be done with it.If things are done right there are little to no complaints about color and contrast, just look at movies like Dr. Zhivago, King of Kings or The Ten Commandments.Regarding The King and I and to a lesser degree Carousel they just don't look right - this is not a question of the SD/HD being the ultimate versions (they aren't) but the Blu-ray simply being off or very far off. I am sure fading played a role in this new "look" but I also happen to know that with the proper digital tools the final look even with fading elements doesn't have to be like with the BR of The King and I.
 

classicmovieguy

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Rob_Ray said:
THE SOUND OF MUSIC is definitely the earlier release. When I put the new bluray in my machine, it asked me if I wanted to resume where I had previously left off watching.
LOL - Isn't that funny? It also works with editions of the same film released in other countries - my Blu-ray machine can't tell the difference between my AU and US discs of "How to Marry a Millionaire". Its actually a very clever, time-saving feature I wish other labels would start incorporating.
 

OliverK

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rsmithjr said:
I was able to make some gamma and brightness adjustments to Carousel (plus a bit of green) that made me very pleased with the result. Considering the first print I saw in 1961 was totally cyan (but otherwise perfect), I guess things are getting better. :) The King and I is still a different story. I tried another evening of adjustments to it and it just doesn't make it. Comparing to my now-treasured LD, one of the frustrations is that deeply blue objects on the LD have a bluish-gray look. For example, the kralahome's shirt in the waltz scene near the end is a combalt blue on the LD (and the most recent 35mm print I saw of it). My efforts are mainly adding green and red while subtracting blue, and that shirt ends up gray. Bob
From the caps Carousel looks as if some adjustments would make it look much more pleasing, this also worked for Cleopatra. The King and I looks too far gone to me to compensate for and obviously we should not have to worry about that in the first place - please get your act together Fox!
 

Steve Tannehill

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The set showed up in the mailbox this afternoon. I've started with Oklahoma! and all I can say is Wow! The shots of horse riding through corn are astonishing. When we see Aunt Eller churning butter, it looks like she is 3D in the foreground. The picture is so clear.
 

KPmusmag

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CMNash said:
And of course, it's been stated in this thread -- and in many other threads too -- that we cannot use previous home releases as reference material. Yes, the previous DVD was brighter but it looks like it was contrast and/or gamma enhanced. As RAH would caution, one has to go back to the earliest prints (perhaps an answer or internegative print) to find out what was intended. As it is now, Carousel is pleasing to watch. Perhaps they referenced timings from prints, and what we are seeing is within the range of 'original intention'.

However, I also understand many of the complaints. On the one hand, there are pressures to present the film as near original as possible to please the 'authentic' crowd. On the other hand, a colourist and/or mastering engineer has to calculate what will project a reasonable image in the various home set ups. What may look good on the big screen, may not exactly have the same effect with multitude of variations out there in home theatre and projection. Furthermore, the expectations of the 'non-authentic' crowd may be very different than those of the 'authentic' crowd. This ultimately affects sales.

Is there a compromise? Possibly. But I'm not exactly sure what it is.
I respect the concept of not using past home video incarnations as reference. However, when a white glove that is obviously intended to be white and has been white in the past is now blue - and an odd shade of blue at that - it seems to me that it is worthwhile to look at what has gone before and ask why. It would make a lot more sense to me if that glove had been blue in the past and was now white with restoration technology.
 

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