Which new players offer scaling (1 Viewer)

[Brian L]

The quotes were from me. I may be wrong in my understanding of the term "scaling".

I take it to mean allowing the player to blow-up an image such that a non-anamorphic WS DVD will fill up more of the vertical height of the screen (at the expance of image to the sides.

All that said, strictly speaking, scaling could also refer to changing a 480i image to some other format. Several new players have been announced that will scale a standard DVD (480i) to HD resolution (10801).

Methinks the original poster was referring to the first explanation, but I could be wrong.

BGL

 

[Dmitry]

take it to mean allowing the player to blow-up an image such that a non-anamorphic WS DVD will fill up more of the vertical height of the screen (at the expance of image to the sides.

This would be zooming. Roughly speaking, scaling process would strip off 120 lines from the "black bar area" above and below the picture and then interpolate and inject 120 lines into the picture area. The resulting picture would have the same resolution as an anamorphic one and will look horizontally squished on a regular TV. There's no image loss on the sides.

 

[Brian L]

This would be zooming. Roughly speaking, scaling process would strip off 120 lines from the "black bar area" above and below the picture and then interpolate and inject 120 lines into the picture area. The resulting picture would have the same resolution as an anamorphic one and will look horizontally squished on a regular TV. There's no image loss on the sides.

FWIW, the original poster referred to it as "scaling". I would concur that zooming would really be what he is after.

Your description of scaling reads to me like the inverse of in-player letterboxing, where some amount of lines are tossed so that the picture will be correctly proportioned on a 4:3 set.

Not sure what purpose that sort of process you described would serve, but I really do not know much about scaling.

BGL

 

[Charles J P]

Since the original poster mentions scaling of non-anamorphic content as well as a set that locks in full, I am assuming he is talking about the scaling feature that made the Panasonic RP-91 popular. This is not the same as and has not generally been refered to as zooming. It has always been called scaling of non-anomorphic content wherever I've read about it.

 

[Dmitry]

Not sure what purpose that sort of process you described would serve

A few years ago most of the HD-capable wide-screen TVs had what is commonly referred to as "lock in full" on 480p input. That basically means that while you have a choice of several zoom/stretch modes for regular NTSC (480i) input, if you fed that TV progressive-scan (480p) signal, it would assume it to be 16x9. That worked fine for anamorphic DVDs, but presented problems for 4x3 LBX and full-screen DVDs. You either had to get a scaling DVD player or switch it into interlaced output when viewing non-anamorphix DVDs.

 

[Brian L]

A few years ago most of the HD-capable wide-screen TVs had what is commonly referred to as "lock in full" on 480p input.

I think a few still do.

If memory serves, the capability for a player to compensate for this has also been referred to by some manufacturers as having on board aspect ratio control.

So, the correct terminology seems to depend on what problem you are trying to solve, and with which player/TV you are trying to solve it.

Although I like to think I have a fairly decent handle on this stuff (as do most HTF readers) it sure as hell bodes poorly for anyone for whom HT is not a hobby. The average guy or gal does not have a chance in hell to get it right, audio or video.

BGL

 

[Brad Newton]

Although I like to think I have a fairly decent handle on this stuff (as do most HTF readers) it sure as hell bodes poorly for anyone for whom HT is not a hobby. The average guy or gal does not have a chance in hell to get it right, audio or video

That's me :frowning: , just trying to learn. So, what is the final decision on the Pioneer 45A. Does it have scaling or zooming & which is required to properly fill a 4:3 tv when watching a "widescreen" dvd. Some of the JVC players allow you to zoom to fill the screen, although I don't think that is the proper procedure.

 

[Charles J P]

Nothing special is required to properly fill a 4:3 TV with either anamorphic (encoded as 16:9) or non-anamorphic (encoded as 4:3 whether the image is 4:3 or widescreen letterboxed in a 4:3 window). Its people who have native 16:9 sets (or sets that do the 16:9 squeeze like Sony VVegas) who have problems, either because they have a set that locks in full mode or (like my projector) it just doesnt have a lot of zoom modes, so they end up with windowboxing (black bars on all 4 sides) or cropping part of the top off on 1.85:1 movies or they end up switching modes a lot watching special features. If you have a 4:3 set, you just tell the DVD player you have a 4:3 set. Its very simple.

 

[Brian L]

So, what is the final decision on the Pioneer 45A. Does it have scaling or zooming & which is required to properly fill a 4:3 tv when watching a "widescreen" dvd. Some of the JVC players allow you to zoom to fill the screen, although I don't think that is the proper procedure.

As Charles said, nothing is required other than to tell the player you have a 4:3 set.

And no the 45A does not have zooming or any other internal aspect ratio control.

And yes, zooming of letter-boxed material is a hanging offense around these here parts.

BGL

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

As Charles said, nothing is required other than to tell the player you have a 4:3 set.

That's only true if you have a 4x3 set that doesn't do the 16x9 squeeze.

Scaling of non-16x9 content for OAR display in 16x9, which is the issue at hand, is useful for a few different reasons. One is for 16x9 TVs that lock into full mode. Another is for foreign films where you want subtitles to stay on screen, which will not if you use your TV zoom. It's also possible for the PQ to be better w/ player scaling vs TV zoom.

RE: the Philips 963sa, as of now, the verdicts is no scaling of the desired kind although it does provide a pillar box mode, which at least allows OAR viewing on TVs that lock in full. The pillar box mode is also good for OAR viewing of 4x3 full frame content like TV shows and concerts.

_Man_

 

[Dmitry]

And as if the issue is not confusing enough, there seems to be no option to watch a non-anamorphic 1.66 LBX DVD on a 16x9 TV without window-boxing or cropping picture unless your TV supports a 1.66 zoom mode.

 

[Dave F]

If a player can scale non-16x9 content for OAR display in 16x9, it will also look a heckuva lot better on a 16x9 tv. My Malata does X-Y scaling and the picture quality it leaps and bounds ahead of using the tv's zoom(or another player's zoom feature).

-Dave

 

[Brad Newton]

Nothing special is required to properly fill a 4:3 TV with either anamorphic (encoded as 16:9) or non-anamorphic (encoded as 4:3 whether the image is 4:3 or widescreen letterboxed in a 4:3 window). Its people who have native 16:9 sets (or sets that do the 16:9 squeeze like Sony VVegas) who have problems, either because they have a set that locks in full mode or (like my projector) it just doesnt have a lot of zoom modes, so they end up with windowboxing (black bars on all 4 sides) or cropping part of the top off on 1.85:1 movies or they end up switching modes a lot watching special features. If you have a 4:3 set, you just tell the DVD player you have a 4:3 set. Its very simple.

Maybe I didn't ask the right question. I understand about the selection of 4:3 in the dvd players setup, but I use the zoom button to get rid of the black bars on the screen when watching a widescreen dvd. Is there a dvd player that automatically does that, & what is that process called? Maybe that is a better definition of what I am looking for?

 

[Dmitry]

I use the zoom button to get rid of the black bars on the screen when watching a widescreen dvd

This forum is against such butchering of the movies. That should also answer your question about what the proper name for the process is. I recommend checking out Widescreen Advocate site for an explanation of why you shouldn't do that.

 

[Yumbo]

scaling - the Onkyo 800 has it.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Dmitry,

I guess if you need scaling of 1.66:1 non-16x9 DVDs, then your only option is the Malata's (or HTPC or something like it). From what I understand, you should be able to use the x-y scaling to "shrink" the scaled up image so nothing gets cropped--even to reverse the effect of TV overscan if desired. In fact, this is one feature that OAR diehards love about the Malata's.

_Man_

 

[Dmitry]

Man, thanks for the tip and correcting me. Since I have a projector and watch in a dark room, I can handle the occasional non-anamorphic 1.66:1 DVD — in a window-boxed presentation. Takes me just a couple of minutes to get into the movie and lose track of the borders.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Scaling... So if I have a 4:3 set, I don't have to worry about it.

But on my list someday, is a set that does do squeeze mode for anamorphic DVDs on a 4:3 set, so I will need it by then? But wouldn't I just switch the player to progressive mode, enable the squeeze mode on the TV, and would I be all set then?

(Thanks for pointing me here, Dmitri... )

 

[Dmitry]

Kevin, most likely a 4x3 TV set will never lock into the "squeezed" mode on a 480p signal so it won't be an issue.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Thanks...