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What may drive hirez acceptance...

Discussion in 'Music' started by Lee Scoggins, Aug 16, 2003.

  1. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Well-Known Member

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    is cheap universal players.

    I was browsing the Pioneer 563 thread and that thing quickly shot up to 10 pages in length here on the HTF. Most of the posts appeared to be from people also wanting to buy the unit at least in large part for the added hirez capability of either Super Audio or DVD Audio.

    I guess at a price point of $152 (gotapex) and higher, these things are selling like hotcakes. The local retailers here in Atlanta report heavy sales.

    With the story on LSI producing the inexpensive new fully capable DSD/DVDA chips, I think we are going to see more of this.

    I am starting to believe strongly that most future DVD players will be capable for both DVD Audio and Super Audio. That could really drive some big titles to be released which, in turn, will further drive sales of universal players.

    Perhaps the format "war" is ending with a victory on both sides.

    What do you think?
     
  2. Marc Colella

    Marc Colella Well-Known Member

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    Until every DVD player (or the majority of them) includes DVD-A and/or SACD, and all newly released titles are offered on DVD-A and/or SACD... Hi-Rez will remain a format for the very few, while the rest of the world carries on with CD and MP3.
     
  3. Justin Lane

    Justin Lane Well-Known Member

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    Lee,

    Most people now of days are buying sub $100 players. Local retailers in the Northeast area of the United states report much heavier sales for these cheaper players than players in the $150-200 range. We will have to wait and see on further Universal players because up to this point the only two companies providing such units are Pioneer and Zenith, which does not have a reputation for the zenith of quality.

    If Panasonic (pro-DVD-A) and Sony (pro SACD), start putting out Universal players then there might be something to get excited about. Until then, I think it is difficult to draw any conclusions on the acceptance of Hi-res from an minute segment of the population found on a home theater message board.

    J
     
  4. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Well-Known Member

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  5. Angelo.M

    Angelo.M Well-Known Member

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    Lee, I certainly agree that the presence of an inexpensive universal player, with the prospect of more to come, is a good thing. I also agree with Justin in that I would not necessarily guage anything about general consumer tendencies based on our highly self-selected little 'consumer society' here at HTF.

    Where I think the problem lies is this: many consumers have spent the last 15 years or so replacing their vinyl collections with CDs, because, to the average consumer (and I'm not interested in a CD vs vinyl debate here!), CD represented a huge improvement, if not in sound quality than in convenience, durability, etc. The high-rez stuff doesn't, for most folks, I don't think, represent an improvement of the same order of magnitude. It looks like a CD! It feels like a CD! Whoa, it costs more than a CD! Wait, you tell me there are two formats? Yeah, yeah, I know...

    Folks are already scaling back on their redbook CD purchases, to the point where the music industry is sweating the retail side of things... Why would they be eager to buy into yet another form of prerecorded music, which isn't substantially different from the one they already own, at least in the terms they will likely hold critical.

    I'm not trying to insult the music-buying public. Actually, I'm giving them credit for being savvy consumers, in one sense. I think that SACD and DVD-A will continue to represent a very small portion of the market, and that redbook CD will be the dominant pre-recorded format for retail for a while longer. However, as you know from my other posts elsewhere, I think redbook CD will be trumped eventually, by DVD-Video of music content.

    Very interesting discussion...
     
  6. Seth--L

    Seth--L Well-Known Member

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    Putting improved resolution aside, even if the price on universal players drop, most people will need to buy a new receiver and more speakers to enjoy SACD and DVD-A. IMO, surround sound will be the selling point for the general public to buy into one of the high rez formats because all the people who listen to music primarily through their P.O.S. boom box or computer speakers will not give a crap about improved resolution. Think of it this way: look at how virtually all hardware and most software is DTS compatible and how few people actually playback DVDs in DTS (or Dolby 5.1 for that matter).
     
  7. Bill Cowmeadow

    Bill Cowmeadow Well-Known Member

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    Copy protection possibilities of DVD-A will provide the vehicle for studios to invest in Hi-rez titles and steer them from the red-book CD's of today. It's inevitable. Piracy/sharing has to end. Unlike software sharing/piracy, music is sought by all, those who copy software instead of buying, would probably never buy the titles they "steal". Music is a different animal. My next purchase in the HT arena will be a universal player.

    Bill
     
  8. LanceJ

    LanceJ Well-Known Member

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    From what I can see here & in other forums, multichannel music fans (me included) are really into that format. There doesn't seem to be any gray area fans. So while we may make up a small minority of listeners, I think we are a stable enough group of buyers that the music industry could make some decent & consistent money (albeit small amounts).

    And we all know most "regular" people could give a rat's arse about the fine detail provided by the stereo hi-res tracks, in either 96kHz/192kHz PCM or DSD--it's just too subtle. Especially when heard over a $400 HTiB.

    So I think what would truly sell hi-res to more people is not so much hi-res but the multichannel aspect of either format. About 1/3 of my friends, acquaintances & family I let listen to my surround discs get excited about them (the others usually just say "Uh, O.K., so there's music coming from the back......so what?" [​IMG]).

    But for the public to get excited about MCH music, they need one little thing:

    THEY NEED TO KNOW MULTICHANNEL MUSIC EXISTS.

    None of the 14 people I've had listen to MCH music knew it existed before I demonstrated it--none.

    And this is in the last six months or so. Nine had vaguely heard of both sacd & dvd-audio because of Best Buy's banner thingies over their CD racks, but didn't actually know what they did.

    And as far as people balking at buying a surround system, get this: I was at Target a couple nights ago & they sell a complete 5.1 HTiB by Audiovox for......drum roll......139 bucks! I just so happened to have my Nightfly dvd-audio with me [​IMG] so I slipped it in and it, um, made sound! The Dolby Digital track sounded a little tinny (similar to a good boombox), but nothing irritating and the baby subwoofer actually had palpable bass. Yea, I know most people wouldn't buy this system because of its basic-ness, but since I've found out its mostly people under 25 that really liked MCH music (in my little sample group) & don't have lots of disposable income because of their other hobbies, this isn't a problem. They all said even $300 would be acceptable for a "nice" HTiB (FYI: they all were amazed that I had invested $1700 into an HT system--including turntable & VCR--and I don't even own a subwoofer or center channel yet).

    So if any industry people are reading this, y'all need to get your marketing butts in gear--we audio hobbyists can only afford so much free Heineken and mixed Planters nuts to expose people to multichannel music!

    LJ
     
  9. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Well-Known Member

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    Well, Lance and Angelo are getting to the heart of the matter: Most people — the so-vast-it's-not-even-funny majority of them — have not the foggiest what SACD and DVD-A are. To them, redbook CD is the best there has ever been. Thus, to tell them there are two superior formats invites either a blank stare or outright disbelief.

    The record companies, of course, haven't done much to help. It's sort of the way the commercial broadcast networks don't even advertise the fact they are broadcasting in high def.

    Very frustrating.
     
  10. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Well-Known Member

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  11. Rachael B

    Rachael B Well-Known Member

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    Lee, maybe torture or an S & M session would help you understand that MOST PEOPLE DON'T CARE ABOUT Hi-Rez audio!
     
  12. Justin Lane

    Justin Lane Well-Known Member

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  13. Rachael B

    Rachael B Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG] Justin, I'd get a black leather teddy and black boots for the occasion!!!!
     
  14. Justin Lane

    Justin Lane Well-Known Member

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  15. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Well-Known Member

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  16. Marc Colella

    Marc Colella Well-Known Member

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  17. Joe Casey

    Joe Casey Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, I'd be the first to applaud hi-rez going main-stream, but for my own reasons (I like it). I bet if hi-rez capability was included in every player/HTB and CD was replaced by SACD/DVDA, 99.9% of the buying public would NOT know the difference (nor would they care). Just my opinion.
     
  18. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Well-Known Member

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  19. Rachael B

    Rachael B Well-Known Member

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    Lee, nobody is bashing Sony. I own a bunch of their stuff. If it looks like a dog, walks like a dog, and barks...it must be a dog, eh? Sony has given up, to a great extent, on their own format. This is the reality. Their actions show this. Maybe they'll change course again? I hope so!
     
  20. Angelo.M

    Angelo.M Well-Known Member

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