VistaVision--film by film chat and vote (1 Viewer)

[Jack Theakston]

KING CREOLE was shot with a plain old Mitchell BNC:
The confusion with many Paramount titles is that people assume that the backwards "F" framing device seen on many prints was a VistaVision-only implement, and it wasn't.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Nice to see you posting again Jack, we've missed your contributions.
And that Aspect Ratio cross was getting MIGHTY heavy at times!

 

[Richard--W]

Yes indeed, do post more often, Jack.
Everybody loves the Aspect Ratio Thread.

 

[Richard--W]

Which will probably happen with this title along with Rio Bravo in the not too distant future.Crawdaddy

Do you have insider information, or are you indulging in wishful thinking?
I remind you that the so-called restoration of The Searchers is now SIX YEARS old going on SEVEN YEARS old. Since 2006, Warner Brothers has flooded the market with a corrupted disc that they mis-represent as an accurate representation of the film. That's a long time not to own up and correct the error. There is no indication that they ever will. Quite the opposite in fact. Instead of letting the blu-ray go out of print, as they did Rio Bravo, they keep repackaging it and in so doing keep perpetuating the corrupted film. Each repackaging makes the possibility of a corrected disc, and of a proper restoration, more unlikely. A proper edition of The Searchers seems further away than ever. Further, WHV has released other DVDs and blu-rays with similar problems and there is no indication these will ever be corrected, either.

Such a rant!

That's not fair.
I realize that you have a relationship with Warner Home Video.
Does that absolve them of unprofessionalism? of being held accountable? or merely of being criticized?
Look away, Robert.

 

[Malcolm Bmoor]

I have no insider knowledge or relationships but this message seems ungracious. RAH has already explained that a more accurate result would now be possible so I suggest you hope for another issue but meanwhile remember the detail, passion & dedication of the descriptiongiven a fe wyears ago of how the present offering was achieved. I believe this writer is being unreasonable.

 

[Richard--W]

Ned Price's chronic habit of oversaturing films with yellow, evidenced in a number of disparate DVD and blu-ray releases, calls his explanation of The Searchers 2006 transfer into question. I can't fully accept his explanation. Additionally, there is no statement or acknowledgement of any kind whatsoever on the DVDs and blu-rays that there is anything wrong with the transfer. It is being represented as the color timing John Ford intended. Which is far from the truth.
I'm not referring to the problem of faded negatives or elements nor the failure to check the separation masters.
I'm referring to the color timing, done by a human being at a console, after the restoration is delivered.
Two different steps.
There is nothing unreasonable in expecting professionalism.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Richard--W /t/310885/vistavision-film-by-film-chat-and-vote/360#post_4000991
Do you have insider information, or are you indulging in wishful thinking?
I remind you that the so-called restoration of The Searchers is now SIX YEARS old going on SEVEN YEARS old. Since 2006, Warner Brothers has flooded the market with a corrupted disc that they mis-represent as an accurate representation of the film. That's a long time not to own up and correct the error. There is no indication that they ever will. Quite the opposite in fact. Instead of letting the blu-ray go out of print, as they did Rio Bravo, they keep repackaging it and in so doing keep perpetuating the corrupted film. Each repackaging makes the possibility of a corrected disc, and of a proper restoration, more unlikely. A proper edition of The Searchers seems further away than ever. Further, WHV has released other DVDs and blu-rays with similar problems and there is no indication these will ever be corrected, either.
That's not fair.
I realize that you have a relationship with Warner Home Video.
Does that absolve them of unprofessionalism? of being held accountable? or merely of being criticized?
Look away, Robert.

Actually, I don't have any relationship with Warner Home Video. I've met and talked with some studio people, but that's the case with other studios too. Anyhow, I find your critical comments just darn right mean and nasty with little decorum.








Crawdaddy

 

[Richard--W]

My posts regarding The Searchers are straightforward, blunt, correct, honest and in a constructive spirit, although after six years of waiting for Warner Brothers to do something about the transfer, I concede my disgust with them is beginning to show.
Their handling of The Searchers has not been in good faith. It shows a disrespect for the filmmakers and for consumers who spend their money in good faith, which in turn invites the harshest criticism.

 

[benbess]

When I got my blu-ray player about 4 years ago one of my first discs was The Searchers. And when I played it I was wowed. Beyond that, my jaw literally dropped. After seeing the VistaVision logo since I was a kid and never understanding what it was all about it was a sudden revelation to experience the depth, richness, and dimensionality of a filmic image like that. And, as we all know, the film is a tough and spectacular classic with an amazing script, beautiful cinematography (that influenced Lean's Lawrence!), wonderful music, great cast, etc. And yes, even the first time I wondered if the colors were off. Someone made a mistake, but it was still probably the best the film had looked since the late 50s.
I do hope WB gets around to doing a mark II version of this film.

 

[Richard--W]

If you want to see how THE SEARCHERS should look in color, and just how far wrong the 2006 transfer is, compare it (and SHE WORE A YELLOW RIBBON for that matter) to this 1949 documentary shot in Monument Valley:
No willful over-saturation of yellow, no surreptitious colorizing, no subtraction of other colors in the spectrum. Just Monument Valley the way it looks.
Besides you'll really enjoy it. TALE OF THE NAVAJOS is an excellent documentary western and a beautiful film in its own right. Additional footage from this shoot was used in a Traveltalks documentary, I believe, which airs on TCM occasionally.

 

[Adam Gregorich]

Originally Posted by Richard--W /t/310885/vistavision-film-by-film-chat-and-vote/360#post_4001078
My posts regarding The Searchers are straightforward, blunt, correct, honest and in a constructive spirit, although after six years of waiting for Warner Brothers to do something about the transfer, I concede my disgust with them is beginning to show.
Their handling of The Searchers has not been in good faith. It shows a disrespect for the filmmakers and for consumers who spend their money in good faith, which in turn invites the harshest criticism.

Accusing someone of willful and deliberate artistic rape is about as far as you can get from "a constructive spirit", especially when Robert Harris, an expert in the field says that they did the best they could with the elements they had at the time. By all means feel free to let people know that you don't care for the color and advocate to have it re-done with modern tools, but you need to tone down the way you are advocating as your comments are over the line and not appropriate.

 

[Adam Gregorich]

Just an FYI re Warner releasing Paramount titles. While their agreement covers almost 700 Paramount titles, WB is limited to releasing 100 of them on Blu-ray.

 

[Richard--W]

Accusing someone of willful and deliberate artistic rape  is about as far as you can get from "a constructive spirit", especially when Robert Harris, an expert in the field says that they did the best they could with the elements they had at the time.  By all means feel free to let people know that you don't care for the color and advocate to have it re-done with modern tools, but you need to tone down the way you are advocating as your comments are over the line and not appropriate. 

Not so.
Again, I have conceded that my disgust with Warner Brothers is beginning to show.
Some of us knew what was wrong the minute we read Ned Price's responses on digitalbits and associated the oversaturation of yellow in The Searchers with the oversaturation of yellow in other films he supervised for DVD and Blu-ray release. What he did to The Searchers is not an isolated incident, and the other instances do not always stem from the same raw stock.
On the contrary, perpetuating this willful and deliberate artistic rape of The Searchers for several years is over the line and inappropriate and, again, calls for blunt speech and the harshest criticism. Instead of telling me off, you should be demanding that Warner Brothers do the right thing by The Searchers, one of the most important and cherished works of art of the 20th century.
Assuming that Warner Brothers did in fact do the best they could with the preservation, what happened after the preservation at the color timer is another matter.
I do not insist that you agree, but with all the outrage being expressed on HTF over other films (and aspect ratios) my statements are quite mild and fit right in.

 

[GMpasqua]

Originally Posted by Richard--W /t/310885/vistavision-film-by-film-chat-and-vote/360#post_4001113
Instead of telling me off, you should be demanding that Warner Brothers do the right thing by The Searchers, one of the most important and cherished works of art of the 20th century.
Assuming that Warner Brothers did in fact do the best they could with the preservation, what happened after the preservation at the color timer is another matter.

Well, what ever you do you shouldn't demand Warner Bros. do anything. Should should request they do something, much like Fox did when they gave us the new "Patton" Blu-ray

Studios do not purposely issue bad material, it's usually issued due to dead lines that need to be met, or results which are beyond the knowledge of studio executives. If a film is badly transfered sometimes the decision is - either "release it as is, or not at all" only so much cost is budgeted to a title and in reality mistakes happen more often than not and cost too much to correct


keep in mind, the people in Home Video are businessmen with marketing degrees, they usually never went to film school and know little about the actual film preservation process

 

[Richard--W]

After six years of stonewalling the issue a polite request isn't going to get you anymore of a response than a polite demand. See previous posts.

 

[Richard--W]

I would like to toss a vote to ST. LOUIS BLUES. Never seen it myself, but as a Nat King Cole fan I'd buy a blu of it instantly.

St. Louis Blues has been a hard film to see for a long time. It never had a DVD release in the USA. I'd love to see it on blu-ray.
Nelson Riddle is not credited, as I recall, but he is responsible for original music cues and for orchestrating the source music in the film. Any music by Riddle from this period, when he was at his most innovative and traditional best, is worth listening to.
It may not be accurate biography but it's a dignified and solid character-driven drama with great music.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Richard--W /t/310885/vistavision-film-by-film-chat-and-vote/360#post_4001157
After six years of stonewalling the issue a polite request isn't going to get you anymore of a response than a polite demand. See previous posts.

Enough please!





Crawdaddy

 

[benbess]

I've probably lost track, but did Paramount release only two VistaVision titles to blu-ray so far? The ones I'm coming up with are White Christmas and The Ten Commandments, both of which of which are fantastic and I think must buys for any blu-ray collection of classic films. What happened at Paramount home video after that? My vague understanding from posts here a year ago is that Paramount spent so much on the astonishingly beautiful restoration of The Ten Commandments that they didn't make much (or any?) money on it. And then, if I've got this right (but maybe I don't), Paramount let some people go from their home video division, esp. as it relates to restoring classic films and putting them on blu, and handed over access to their library to Warner Home Video.
Is this more or less correct or am I just lost?
Anyway, if this is roughly what happened, on the one hand I'm sorry that Paramount gave up so easily on the treasures in their vaults, but on the other hand I generally love what WB does with its classic titles and look forward to seeing what they might do with the classic VistaVision titles in the Paramount library. What top 5 would you pick for WB HV to restore and release to blu?

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by benbess /t/310885/vistavision-film-by-film-chat-and-vote/360#post_4001268
I've probably lost track, but did Paramount release only two VistaVision titles to blu-ray so far? The ones I'm coming up with are White Christmas and The Ten Commandments, both of which of which are fantastic and I think must buys for any blu-ray collection of classic films. What happened at Paramount home video after that? My vague understanding from posts here a year ago is that Paramount spent so much on the astonishingly beautiful restoration of The Ten Commandments that they didn't make much (or any?) money on it. And then, if I've got this right (but maybe I don't), Paramount let some people go from their home video division, esp. as it relates to restoring classic films and putting them on blu, and handed over access to their library to Warner Home Video.
Is this more or less correct or am I just lost?
Anyway, if this is roughly what happened, on the one hand I'm sorry that Paramount gave up so easily on the treasures in their vaults, but on the other hand I generally love what WB does with its classic titles and look forward to seeing what they might do with the classic VistaVision titles in the Paramount library. What top 5 would you pick for WB HV to restore and release to blu?

Warner will distribute about 100 Paramount titles onto BD in the coming years. However, Paramount is still responsible for restoring their titles and will work with Warner to get those titles ready for BD releases.






Crawdaddy

 

[Matt Hough]

Originally Posted by benbess /t/310885/vistavision-film-by-film-chat-and-vote/360#post_4001268
I've probably lost track, but did Paramount release only two VistaVision titles to blu-ray so far? The ones I'm coming up with are White Christmas and The Ten Commandments, both of which of which are fantastic and I think must buys for any blu-ray collection of classic films. What happened at Paramount home video after that? My vague understanding from posts here a year ago is that Paramount spent so much on the astonishingly beautiful restoration of The Ten Commandments that they didn't make much (or any?) money on it. And then, if I've got this right (but maybe I don't), Paramount let some people go from their home video division, esp. as it relates to restoring classic films and putting them on blu, and handed over access to their library to Warner Home Video.
Is this more or less correct or am I just lost?
Anyway, if this is roughly what happened, on the one hand I'm sorry that Paramount gave up so easily on the treasures in their vaults, but on the other hand I generally love what WB does with its classic titles and look forward to seeing what they might do with the classic VistaVision titles in the Paramount library. What top 5 would you pick for WB HV to restore and release to blu?

To Catch a Thief was also released by them.