Universal's DVD-18s (1 Viewer)

[smithb]

Originally Posted by TravisR

After playing probably more than 3,000 discs (maybe even 4,000) in multiple players over more than a decade, I've had three problems with discs freezing up and all of them were Universal's DVD-18s. When I got replacement copies, they all worked on the same players. Given that situation, what are the odds that it wasn't the disc? I'm not saying that every DVD-18 is bad but clearly there were many more problems than normal with the ones that Universal was selling. If there wasn't, why isn't Universal still using them?

I don't discount that. There are obviously more layers and I believe the layers are closer together. So I agree they are probably more DVD-18's prone to manufacturing issues then probably other approaches with less layers. But when someone has had as many issues as some have reported where if not all DVD-18's, the majority of them don't play in certain players, then I think the players have to take some of the blame for incompatibility issues.

When DVD players first came out we started with single layer single sided and souble sided disks, then single sided dual layer, then finally dounble sided dual layer. When player manufacturer's come out with new models they don't just rewrite the firmware from scratch and redeisgn hardware disk readers each time. They tweak here and there and reuse many parts. It is very likely many players still use designs from the very beginning with only incremental changes. Therefore, it should not be surprising if even some newer models still have issues with DVD-18's.

So I am sure some of the blame can be the disks, but evidence could also point blame to some player manufacturers.

- Could some disks be out of tolerance, yes.
- Could some player have issues supporting disks at the outer range of tolerances, yes
- Could some players handle disks outside of tolerance, yes
- Could some players just be incompatible with any DVD-18's, yes.

There is a whole realm of possibilities here then to just put all the blame on the disks themselves is all I am trying to point out.

 

[smithb]

Originally Posted by Nebiroth

If it was player related the problem would be consistent. For example, if it was a problem with Player B, then it would refuse to play every copy of a specific release.

Not necessaily. Disks are manufacturered to a level of acceptable tolerance within the DVD-18 spec. Some players have a higher level of tolerance then others. Each disk can meet the spec but actually be within different degrees of that tolerance.

So player A may actually be able to handle some disks outside of the accepted tolerance and still play fine. Player B might not be able to meet the accepted tolerance but can handle the better ones just fine but not those closer to the outer range. Since each disk or pressing can be different the results will be varied.

So it is quite possible for a player to basically handle all DVD-18's produced within spec while another only handles specific ones. Again, I agree the manufacturing of DVD-18's obviously has more issues. But to think that all player manufacturers are in the clear related to this issue I think is flawed.

 

[Bryan^H]

Bottom line Universal wasn't to blame initially. It was the piece of S%*#T manufacturing plant in Mexico that churned out millions of bad discs. Not only were they to blame, I remember finding glue residue on the actual dvd-18 discs I bought....TWICE. I didn't even bother trying to scrape it off, I simply returned the sets. Where in the hell was quality control..........why no recall on a faulty product? That's where Universal comes in. Problems should be fixed, product can be recalled.


DVD-18's are faulty software. It took a while to learn, but thankfully most studios have eliminated them.
Those of you who have Universal dvd-18 sets, and have had no problems. Good for you. Just pray the next dvd player you buy down the line will be compatible with them.

 

[mdnitoil]

Originally Posted by Bryan^H

Bottom line Universal wasn't to blame initially. It was the piece of S%*#T manufacturing plant in Mexico that churned out millions of bad discs. Not only were they to blame, I remember finding glue residue on the actual dvd-18 discs I bought....TWICE. I didn't even bother trying to scrape it off, I simply returned the sets. Where in the hell was quality control..........why no recall on a faulty product? That's where Universal comes in. Problems should be fixed, product can be recalled.


DVD-18's are faulty software. It took a while to learn, but thankfully most studios have eliminated them.
Those of you who have Universal dvd-18 sets, and have had no problems. Good for you. Just pray the next dvd player you buy down the line will be compatible with them.

And therein lies the issue of these discs for me. I've lost count of the number of people who have reported that the discs are giving them trouble well after the initial successful viewing(s). For as long as we have these discs in our collection, there is the potential that they will eventually fail on us, even if it's only because we had to finally purchase a new player.

I'm also not entirely convinced of the Mexican manufacturing plant story. There are folks to this day that are still leaving feedback on Amazon complaining about brand new copies of these discs failing. That Mexican plant story is at least 5 years old now.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

Originally Posted by smithb



I don't discount that. There are obviously more layers and I believe the layers are closer together. So I agree they are probably more DVD-18's prone to manufacturing issues then probably other approaches with less layers. But when someone has had as many issues as some have reported where if not all DVD-18's, the majority of them don't play in certain players, then I think the players have to take some of the blame for incompatibility issues.

My player at the time was able to play most DVD-18's, but not THE BELA LUGOSI COLLECTION not THE HAMMER HORROR COLLECTION. I had no problems with DVD-18s of the AIRPORT FILMS, THE MUNSTERS SEASON SETS, or any of those multi-film ABBOTT AND COSTELLO VOLUMES. So if it was my player, why didn't all DVD-18s screw up? They didn't .... at least not yet.

>>Joe, your whole argument can easily be voiced the other way as well. "THIS PLAYER IS COMPATIBLE WITH ALL DISKS CREATED FOR R1". I can take every statement made and easily reverse it, but I won't for the sake of time and space.

Bottom line is, it is the DVD-18s which were (wisely) discontinued; not the players, whatever the brands were.

My player has been more then capable of playing any and every disk I have thrown at it (including every DVD-18), except a few disks with obvious imperfections (scratches and such) on the surface.

Same here originally - and then I was the one who came online and tried to tell people their players were the problem (my belated apologies). Until I realized I'd been wrong, that is --- and had a problem for myself. The DVD-18 technology is a finicky one, a faulty one. Universal ultimately realized it and came to their senses and STOPPED USING THEM.

So if:
- Player A plays a specific DVD-9 disk, and
- Player A plays a specific DVD-18 disk, and
- Player B plays the same DVD-9 disk, and
- Player B can't play the same DVD-18 disk

You automatic assume it has to be the DVD-18 disk? Doesn't make sense to me. My first assumption would be Player B is the problem because it is the only variable in the equation that is inconsistent.

And what if PLAYER B plays some of the DVD-18 discs, but not all?

There are obviously more layers and I believe the layers are closer together. So I agree they are probably more DVD-18's prone to manufacturing issues then probably other approaches with less layers. But when someone has had as many issues as some have reported where if not all DVD-18's, the majority of them don't play in certain players, then I think the players have to take some of the blame for incompatibility issues.

Doesn't it make more sense to just stop using DVD-18 technology (which is what ultimately happened)? Why should fine and fully functioning players which have already played 3000 DVD-9 discs successfully be put out to pasture just because of a couple of faulty /clunky DVD-18 cheapies?

 

[Joe Karlosi]

Originally Posted by Bryan^H

Those of you who have Universal dvd-18 sets, and have had no problems. Good for you. Just pray the next dvd player you buy down the line will be compatible with them.

Exactly. But also, they can eventually screw up even in players which previously played them successfully first few times!

 

[RickER]

You know whats funny. The people who are saying that nothing is wrong with the DVD-18 technology, probably have a few that have gone bad on them, and they just dont know it. After all, i bet its been a few YEARS since most of us have watched EVERY disc we own.

The only single sided discs i ever had trouble with, were those first Anchor Bay titles. That rotted on the shelf. But they were also a known problem. Just like the DVD-18s are a known problem.

My Adam-12 Season 1 is an example of a DVD-18 set that played fine when i bought it. About a year or two later disc 1 side 2 started to lock up at the layer change. The only way i found out, is cause a friend had the same trouble with his. BOTH of us had a working set when it was new.

Scott, you mention that Amazon still has negative feedback on these discs, even 5 years later. They are the same discs! I promise they have not gone out for a second pressing. Its the same stock from 5 years ago. Most people stopped buying the things after a while. I wonder how much better sales would of been on shows they gave up on, that used DVD-18s, instead of single sided discs?
Adam-12 is now being released by Shout! Factory, and season 4 is coming out soon. Single sided discs!

I dont own ANY DVD-18s now. Packed them up, and sold them.

Universal, i will NOT buy any of your DVD/Blu-ray flippers either. Stick them! This guy is flipper disc free!

 

[Randy Korstick]

Wow all these years I've been going about it all wrong, but after reading this thread I realize that players can't be at fault so since:
I've had no problems with DVD-18'sNo problems with DVD-14's
No problems with DVD-5's
But I have had about 10-11 problems with DVD-9's most of which played fine with replacements and since this is the most commonly produced disc there is no question there are more returns with DVD-9's than any other disc and we ruled out players as a possible problem then we should start complaining more to DVD company's to stop using DVD-9's since they are obviously faulty.
Or maybe we need to realize the DVD format is a faulty format and we need to switch to Blu-Ray or something else.

 

[Jeff Willis]

I can speak from primarily a TV/DVD side of things but the few problems that I've had with std DVD's over the past 5 yrs has been with the DVD-18's. But my problems haven't been as numerous as some here have reported. The one thing that I don't know much at this point is the DVD-18 "lifetime" issue. I haven't pulled hardly any of my DVD-18 sets out for a re-view in a long time so I may have more problems on the shelf than I'm aware of at present.

The thing that I've been more curious about since the advent of the (std) DVD format is the apparent incompatibility between DVD players, and how they react to a common disc when playback is attempted. I've run across several DVD-R's that will play on one player but not another. It would seem to me that the DVD format should be a completely transparent format by this time, since the format has been around since, 1997? I don't understand why we still see a difference in playback from Brand "X" vs Brand "Y" players. I have several DVD-R's that just won't play on my Pioneer player but will play without a problem on my JVC.

Is this just due to the DVD-R "burn" format vs the factory "pressed" format or are there some that also see this problem with pressed discs between players?