Universal Blu Ray Catalog Releases - Quality Control Issues (1 Viewer)

[TravisR]

...Universal can sure as hell spend a bit of cash on a new transfer for Jurassic Park, a film that is going to make them a fortune on blu ray.

They'll make even more money if they don't do a new transfer. Even if it turns a miniscule fraction of their buyers away, it's a safe bet that they're still going to end up making more money by using what they already have. I'm not saying that's right but it's the way it is.

 

[Dave H]

They'll make even more money if they don't do a new transfer. Even if it turns a miniscule fraction of their buyers away, it's a safe bet that they're still going to end up making more money by using what they already have. I'm not saying that's right but it's the way it is.

Agreed, that is what is driving a lot of this.

 

[Kevin EK]

Malcolm, I think you've made your position fairly clear here.


I understand that the decision-making here does not make sense to you, and I appreciate that you've clarified that you'd like to see all the reviewers pan the lack of a new scan for the release.


Unfortunately, this will not be the case, other than in a very few cases where people are having issues with the things you're bringing up.


You've unfortunately misunderstood my postings regarding the EE, so I'll be clearer here: What is to you a more egregious problem that you immediately noted and cited is to me a less noticeable problem. On a 65" plasma, I wasn't looking around the screen to see if I could find mild EE anywhere. I was looking to see if there was anything that was distracting me, and there was not. When you reposted your screencaps with your arrows, I went back and checked the Blus to see that yes, there is some mild EE that is not only not distracting me, but is so mild that I would not have noticed it if you hadn't made an issue of it. This may not make sense to you, but most people, including home theater enthusiasts, will have to hunt to find the EE here. I'm fairly certain that most people looking for it will already have been expecting it and thinking they will find it in the first place, based on either their opinion of Universal releases or the comments they've been hearing about this release. I believe you're implying something about my ability to detect mild EE in a Blu-ray release, but I'd prefer that you simply make your statement if you're going in that direction rather than the implication. It's possible that you're trying to say something else, and I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt there. This is the same unfortunate territory you entered when you were making comments about wanting me to invest in a projection system. I'm glad for you that you have that level of equipment, and that you can spot these issues right off, but we all have different setups, and we all have different things that pop for us in these releases.


I'm sure that Adam will let us know his appraisal of the situation, regardless of how I score the release. The one thing Adam expects from me is that I be honest in my writing here - he and I don't need to agree on everything and the world would be a far less interesting place if we did. If he thinks there's a PQ issue, he'll say so. I expect that if Robert Harris thinks there a PQ issue here, he will do the same.


As for whether it's realistic to expect a new scan at 4K from any studio, I can only remind you that this is a decision that gets made by each studio for their own reasons. And as we've established, none of us is qualified to tell someone else how to spend their funds, the same way none of us is qualified to tell Steven Spielberg whether he should or should not approve a transfer. You imply a lack of care from Universal when we don't know that this is the case in this situation. That's the same logic that was used when Do The Right Thing came out on Blu two years ago and the crowd jumped on the idea that somehow Universal had snuck a bad new transfer past Spike Lee and Ernest Dickerson. Experience has taught us that this was not the case, so I'm not inclined to go down that road this time either.


What we've established here is that you don't feel that this release is up to the standards of other Blu releases of Spielberg films and you're citing what you have admitted are minor issues. I understand and empathize with your opinion on this, and I anticipate that you'll voice it again within the thread of my review of the trilogy. Time will tell if a large number of viewers find those issues to be a problem for them, or if most people enjoy the release for what it is.

 

[Paul_Warren]

Just watched JP2 The Lost World. Happy to say the picture quality is in places jaw dropping with an amazing amount of detail & incredible colour & texture detail. This may well be the new 1997 reference Bluray catalog release its that good!! The scene where you first meet Julianne Moore's character in the jungle looks so good it could have been filmed this year. Universal did a very decent job on JP2 as the transfer is top notch & the sound is also incredible. So well done for that as many scenes have the "pop" only reference transfers give & this really puts you right into the action. I have absolutely nothing negative to say about this transfer its very pleasing to the eye!! Also check out the reflection @ 1:59.53 its a Steven Spielberg cameo eating popcorn watching the TV News report with Jeff Goldblum, Julianne Moore & Vanessa Lee Chester!!! That's how much detail is present so to be totally fair Universal can do some excellent work on catalog bluray transfer's which still begs the question what on earth happened on JP1...... perhaps the velociraptors went into the telecine room & got their claws into the DNR controls!!!!

 

[Adam Gregorich]

Originally Posted by Paul_Warren

If anything I can take an educated guess its the cancelled HD-DVD master if its a brand new HD transfer then something went seriously wrong & I doubt Spielberg personally signed-off on this..... I do not expect most mainstream reviews to pick any faults as like with Star Wars no-one wants to rock the apple cart & lose the clickable adverts or future studio co-operation.

While I believe Universal Japan announced this for HD DVD, It was never announced for the US on HD DVD. In September of 2007 (could have been 2008?) I had dinner with a Universal Home Video executive (who is no longer with the company) and we talked about a lot of things including Spielberg on HD DVD. I asked about when we could see a JP HD DVD release and was told it would be a long time. They wanted to wait until there was enough of an installed player base where it would be a huge seller (like they did with Jaws on DVD) and I was told despite the fact that it wasn't "that old" of a movie it was in pretty rough shape and was going to require a lot of extensive work to get it ready for a HD release. Based on this I don't believe that it was ever officially prepped for release on HD DVD.


As to rocking the apple cart our reviewers call it like they see it, good of bad. HTF owners don't influence any of the review content. Kevin and the other reviews call it like they see it with NO interference from us. Kevin has had plenty of issues with Universal releases lately: Scarface, Fast Times, and some others. We have actually had requests from people involved in films he reviewed to make him "correct" a low rating, which of course we didn't do.

Originally Posted by FoxyMulder [url=/t/315636/universal-blu-ray-catalog-releases-quality-control-issues/30#post_3863316]
... i don't expect Adam to back me up, you are his reviewer and i imagine he will back your comments up before he backs what i say up, no problems there.

Kevin and I have agreed to disagree before and we will probably do it again. In this particular instance, I agree with him and its not because I feel the need to back him up. I had to look really hard to find any EE (pause during a high contrast scene, and move a few feet in front of the screen). When I would find it, I wasn't taken out of the film, it just wasn't that noticeable. I understand your point about the fact that you feel that this should be a reference transfer based on the box office and director, and I agree that there is EE, but I disagree about how noticeable or bad it is.

I have put a request into some folks to find out exactly what was done for the transfer and encode and to what extent Spielberg was involved. For what its worth I'm sure he had to be as Universal doesn't do anything to any of his films without his involvement and consent.


I seemed to enjoy the sound mix a bit more than you did. It wasn't Transformers 3, but it was a really good mix. Between dinosaurs and the jungle my surrounds got quite a workout. Subs too!


I think we can agree that its not a perfect video release, but I think we will have to agree to disagree how much impact the problems have when watching it. Its on sale here in the states for $36 shipped (check the roundup) and I think the set is an easy recommend at that price. As soon as I have any info on the video I will post it.

 

[Paul_Warren]

 

  Its on sale here in the states for $36 shipped (check the roundup) and I think the set is an easy recommend at that price.  As soon as I have any info on the video I will post it. 

 

@ $36 perhaps Adam but here in the UK cheapest price is £36 which is $58 on todays exchange rate!!!!! Look forward to hearing from Universal on the JP1 transfer.

 

[Kevin EK]

My review is now up, at long last. It took a long time to itemize out all the special features, but it's finally done.


You can read it HERE.


As it turns out, I was wrong when I said that this release was not from a new scan of the movies. I apologize for the incorrect statement. New transfers were done this year, and the project was done with full participation by Steven Spielberg and Amblin Entertainment.


I look forward to reading the reactions of forum readers after they have a chance to see the Blu-ray set and chime in.

 

[cineMANIAC]

I think we've reached a point where the studios don't feel that they have to consult with a Director or cinematographer to "approve" a transfer anymore, including bigshots like Spielberg. Cost is obviously one reason. Another one being that the studios own these films and they will do whatever they want with 'em. The days of major titles getting big makeovers are, for the most part, over.

 

[Kevin EK]

Luis, this was not the case with Jurassic Park. Spielberg and Amblin were involved in the process, which was extensive. I expect the same thing will happen when Uniiversal does Blus of ET and Jaws and probably 1941 as well. The Indiana Jones movies will certainly involve both Spielberg and George Lucas.


It's actually not expensive to involve the director and creative team, particularly if this is a movie from the last 30-40 years and the people are able to participate.


The track record to date - with the Bond films (all involving EON, the Broccoli company that has been making the movies since Dr. No), the ALIEN films and anything done by Ridley Scott, the Star Wars films, the Godfather films, and even the Star Trek films, has seen the original filmmakers or as many as are with us, actively participating. The Blu-ray release of Do The Right Thing 2 1/2 years ago was specifically color timed by Ernest Dickerson and approved by Spike Lee. Even the recent John Landis movies were approved by him, as he publicly stated at the time of their release.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by Kevin EK

Luis, this was not the case with Jurassic Park. Spielberg and Amblin were involved in the process, which was extensive. I expect the same thing will happen when Uniiversal does Blus of ET and Jaws and probably 1941 as well. The Indiana Jones movies will certainly involve both Spielberg and George Lucas.


It's actually not expensive to involve the director and creative team, particularly if this is a movie from the last 30-40 years and the people are able to participate.


The track record to date - with the Bond films (all involving EON, the Broccoli company that has been making the movies since Dr. No), the ALIEN films and anything done by Ridley Scott, the Star Wars films, the Godfather films, and even the Star Trek films, has seen the original filmmakers or as many as are with us, actively participating. The Blu-ray release of Do The Right Thing 2 1/2 years ago was specifically color timed by Ernest Dickerson and approved by Spike Lee. Even the recent John Landis movies were approved by him, as he publicly stated at the time of their release.

You say this was a new film scan, well someone messed up somewhere along the line and why on a new film scan does gate weave exist on the opening titles. ?


We are just going to have to disagree on this, and Spielberg has disappointed me with this release, edge halos no matter how minor should never exist on a blu ray transfer if a new film scan was done, i still have doubts about that, i don't know where you got that information from but why is there gate weave on a new film scan, why is there edge halos on a new film scan, no thats not just compositing i am seeing, its edge halos, its in the screencaps i provided, why would that exist on a new film scan unless Universal explicitly added sharpening to the release, if Spielberg approved this sharpened release then i find that quite unsettling.

 

[Kevin EK]

Malcolm, the gate weave may be a result of scanning the same source, and as we've noted, it's extremely mild and not a problem. As for the EE, we've also established here that this is a mild problem and not something along the lines of what's happening with West Side Story.

The information comes USHE, and I'm sure you can send them an email or phone message to ask them questions about how the scans were done.

Yes, Steven Spielberg and Amblin Entertainment were involved. And again, you can contact Amblin and ask about the EE. I'm sure they can give more information about the work done to make this Blu-ray set.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich

I didn't vote in the poll, because while I think they have titles with issues, overall they do a better job than not, so I would vote for:


Mostly yes but occasionally they fall flat on their face.


I just watched the first film and will be weighing in with my thoughts later today.

Same with me, I didn't vote because the voting options for this poll were limited.






Crawdaddy

 

[Scott Calvert]

Luis, this was not the case with Jurassic Park.  Spielberg and Amblin were involved in the process, which was extensive. 

Can you point to a source for this? I watched Jurassic Park last night. It looks like a Universal release. Old master further tweaked in the video domain. The credits have gate weave, which I personally don't mind but points to this being an old master. How many new 4K datacines have gate weave? Answer: none.

 

[Kevin EK]

Scott, unfortunately you're not correct here.

We contacted USHE about the new scans and mixes and got confirmation of what I have stated here and in the review thread.


I understand if you have some trouble accepting it, but those are the facts.


At the same time, I completely understand if you have some issues with the new transfer of JP1. These things are relative and affect people in different ways. What irks me may be okay with you and vice versa.

 

[Scott Calvert]

Scott, unfortunately you're not correct here.  We contacted USHE about the new scans and mixes and got confirmation of what I have stated here and in the review thread. I understand if you have some trouble accepting it, but those are the facts. At the same time, I completely understand if you have some issues with the new transfer of JP1.  These things are relative and affect people in different ways.  What irks me may be okay with you and vice versa. 

Who is "we"? Who is it from USHE that responded to "we?". Sorry Kevin, the only fact here is that new datacines don't display gate weave.

 

[Kevin EK]

"We" is Home Theater Forum, the site for which I write my reviews every week.


As to the specific name of the person at USHE who responded to our inquiry, that's irrelevant. I recommend you contact USHE yourself, or contact Amblin Entertainment yourself and let us know the response you get.


The facts here are that these are new 2011 scans and mixes. You may not appreciate the scans, but you're entitled to that opinion and we all respect that. And if this release does not measure up to your standards, you can always stay with the earlier DVDs or laserdiscs.

 

[Scott Calvert]

"We" is Home Theater Forum, the site for which I write my reviews every week. As to the specific name of the person at USHE who responded to our inquiry, that's irrelevant.   I recommend you contact USHE yourself, or contact Amblin Entertainment yourself and let us know the response you get. The facts here are that these are new 2011 scans and mixes.  You may not appreciate the scans, but you're entitled to that opinion and we all respect that.  And if this release does not measure up to your standards, you can always stay with the earlier DVDs or laserdiscs. 

New scans don't have gateweave.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by Scott Calvert


New scans don't have gateweave.

Exactly and a new master created from a new film scan from last year would not require digital remastering, there would be no edge sharpening to the extent that halos, however minor to some people, would be visible on the image.


Some anonymous source says its a new film scan created and i suppose i have to believe that despite seeing issues which would not exist with a new film scan, okay, if you say so.


As for the limited options on the poll, well, i just couldn't believe anyone would vote mostly yes but occasionally they release a dud, i never for one moment thought that was a reasonable option since their catalog releases, even relatively new titles like The Mummy exhibit dnr issues, and that film isn't that old and the HD DVD version looks far more film like and natural.


As for the "You may not appreciate the scans, but you're entitled to that opinion and we all respect that. And if this release does not measure up to your standards, you can always stay with the earlier DVDs or laserdiscs." That is an easy thing to say but the fact is that no one is saying this release isn't better than the DVD or Laserdisc editions, it is, some of us are saying edge sharpening would not exist on a newly created master taken from a fresh film scan from 2010, it just would not exist, if they really did do a new film scan then someone at Universal then decided to apply some edge sharpening, and Spielberg then approves that. ? Seems unlikely based on his past releases but you apparently were told this by an anonymous source.

 

[Scott Calvert]

Seems unlikely based on his past releases but you apparently were told this by an anonymous source.

I always love that. Like that is the definitive, final word on the issue. I always chuckle and think of Baghdad Bob or even Frank Drebin. You know that scene, "move along, there is nothing to see here" The Jurassic Park BD comes from an older digital master. I don't care what anyone says. The facts are right there on the screen.

 

[Kevin EK]

Scott and Malcolm, you guys can feel free to voice your opinions about the quality of the release, but the other things you're implying here simply don't stand up to the facts.


The person who spoke to us is not "an anonymous source" with whatever ominous idea you're implying there. The person is an employee of USHE who was happy to discuss the work that went into this release. This wasn't an investigation where the person was peppered with questions of "Why did you allow EE on these discs?" or "Why didn't you make sure the wobbling credits were fixed?" or "Can you show us photos of Steven Spielberg looking at each frame of the scan?" If you're this unsure of the facts we've presented here, I again recommend either or both of you to contact USHE and Amblin Entertainment by phone or email. I would also ask that you come back here afterward with any further information once you talk to them. If you feel that this is not a definitive, final answer, the proper recourse would be for you to ask them. If your only response is to come here and make statements about the integrity of USHE or the people who spoke to them, I don't know that you're helping your cause much.


You may believe what you wish about this transfer but that goes in the face of the facts, unfortunately. I know both of you have opinions about USHE releases that have been less than complimentary, and there have been releases where those opinions were merited. This one simply isn't one of them.

The point that Robert and Adam were trying to make about the poll is that you're tipping the options toward what you're hoping to hear. (We call this a "push poll" in other circles) You're clearly trying to get people to say that they either don't think that USHE makes Blus that look good, or that most of them don't. Had you put in an option where people could say that they're happy with most of them but that occasional titles fall down, you would have seen a better response.