Universal at CES (1 Viewer)

[Douglas Monce]

Yeah 2 full years after the release of the format. Thats pretty pathetic.

Doug

 

[nolesrule]

Well, we knew that two years ago, but with HD DVD coming to market, Blu-ray didn't have much of a choice if they wanted to get into the game. HD DVD was simply an evolutionary step up technology-wise from DVD, whereas the BR technology was a giant leap...I'm referring specifically to manufacturing, not content encoding. So BR had to put some things on hold just to get something to market.

 

[RickER]

Yep. I want Blu to win. You act like in the last 2 years Toshiba has had a smooth well oiled machine. I can tell you i owned an HD DVD player for a week. it locked up on everything i had. HD and DVD discs wouldnt play. I know its not the first time this issue has been brought up about the players. The build quality had very little going for it as well. I could also say in 2 years Toshiba didnt find ANY major company willing to build another stand alone HD DVD player?

 

[JonZ]

Like anything else, some work great and some dont. Some had problems with their Toshibas some didnt. I had one freezeup, on a title I dont remember and my fist wiremare upgrade fixed it. Not a single problem since. Its worked perfectly.

Plenty people complained about the Sony S300s - saying it was slow, but I messed with mine for hours today and felt it worked great. Really happy with it.


"I'm happy for Blu-Ray being the victor here, but as far as I was
concerned, HD-DVD was equally as good."

"Its sad that it seems that the format that is clearly lacking is going to win. A shame."


From what I saw on my TV tonight, I prefer HDDVD PQ.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

But what's even MORE pathetic is that only 27% of HD DVD titles offer lossless audio, contrasted with 100% of BD titles from Sony, Disney, Fox, and MGM offer lossless.

Given a choice between transparent audio and hardware that does PIP or web-features, I'd choose lossless.

I can worry about PIP and web features in a few months. But I can't put lossless audio on the vast majority of HD DVD discs that don't have room for it.

 

[Dan Hitchman]

Seemingly New Line does not plan to make any more HD-DVDs irrespective of what WB does. Perhaps WB will do the very bare minimum for Toshiba.

I say the sooner WB can dump HD-DVD the better. Then, like New Line, they can focus on higher video encodes and 24 bit lossless on all releases. Porting HD-DVD DNR'd and crippled transfers over to Blu have really ham-strung WB's overall quality IMHO.

Shoot Em Up was New Line's first Blu-ray optimized encoding. If the news is correct, there will be no HD-DVD version.

Dan

 

[Dave Moritz]

I own a HD-A1 and even after firmware upgrades it still will lock up and I still have problems with the sound becoming unsynchronized. I also own a Sony BDP-S300 and there was only one time that the player would not properly deal with a menu. And after a firmware update the Sony has worked flawlessly. My Blu-ray player has been a lot more reliable than my HD-DVD player hands down. They both look great but I am ready for this format war to be over and for one format to move forward. Nether format was ready for primetime when they released them as both sides where in a rush to beat the other one to market. While Blu-ray may still need a few tweaks and the BD+ to be finished, Blu-ray is still a very good format. And Blu-ray’s specifications are better than HD-DVD so why would I want HD-DVD to win? Blu-ray has better data transfer which is why it is better for using new video codex’s and lossless audio tracks. To my knowledge there has been no Blu-ray that was unable to offer a lossless track because the title had maxed out its bitrate. I do not think we can say the same about HD-DVD, I can think of one title that could not offer Dolby True HD because of bitrate issues, that is from what I understand. So is HD-DVD better, maybe in one or two tiny areas, but overall I would say that Blu-ray is every bit as good as HD-DVD. Both offer great video and great sound, and a nice step up from the DVD formats we have been using for the last 10 years or so.


Universal did a great job with the HD-DVD releases they have put out. But it is now time for them to make the move to Blu-ray. I am sure that the titles Universal produced for HD-DVD will look every bit as good on Blu-ray. There is no reason why Universal can not offer lossless audio on every Blu-ray release. With Blu-ray's larger storage and higher data transfer rates every Universal title should have lossless audio. Obviously its up to Universal which title will get a lossless track. But I am sure most of us here would prefer a lossless track over a lossy one. Something like 63% or more of the HD-DVD titles where not lossless while Blu-ray titles have offered more lossless titles to this day.

This format war has served its purpose and now that is has run its course. Now it is time for the last two studios to join Blu-ray and help HDM move foward. Toshiba needs to take a step back and think about the fact that this format war has been lost. Toshiba can still be welcome into the fold and they can join other manufacturers in producing Blu-ray players. I personally own around 63 HD-DVD's and I will continue to enjoy them long after this war is over! WB put the wheels in motion and now Universal should step up and help end this format war. What good will it do if Universal stays with HD-DVD as the ship continues to sink. Many retailers will most likely start to stop offering HD-DVD software and it will be very dificult for Universal to sell its HD titles in the retail market. I feel the time has arrived and many of the retailers are also ready for this war to be done with. It is something that will benafit the industry and the consumer both, this war needs to end and I hope it ends before summer.

I would like to call on Universal to at least go Blu, do not wait for Paramount to make there move first. It is enevidable and both studios are going to have to make the switch. HD-DVD is dead it is just a matter of Toshiba admiting it so the industry can move foward and so they can focus on marketing one format to the consumer.


I agree I to will take lossless audio over PIP and or web features. Personally I buy HDM for the 1080p picture and lossless audio when I can get it. I do not care about PIP, web features on ether HD-DVD or Blu-ray. Blu-ray is providing content and a choice of manufacturers of Blu-ray players. HD-DVD offers us one choice in manufacturers and now they only have two studios to offer us. For me Blu-ray wins hands down!

 

[Carlo_M]

I sure hope you were just as irate with DVD and refused to support it.

After all, first run DVD players were every bit as expensive as BD players (my cheapest-of-the-pack Toshiba SD-2006 was $499 in May 1997, the top end players were between $600-$1000).

The lower end DVD players did not have component video output.

Want to talk about an "evolving/not-final" set of specs? The initial generations of DVD players did not support progressive scan.

Also, many of the initial players choked on this new-fangled version of DVD called "dual layer". What a horrible format!

Want to talk about high prices and no competition? What competed with DVD?

Despite having no competition, only four of the seven major studios initially supported DVD!

Want to talk about flawed product? Many of the initial players needed firmware updates (my Tosh 2006 did) to address flaws in either subtitles, dual layer reading, or any other number of errors.

And by the way, I'm not an HDD owner but scanning the threads at AVS, HDD players/discs have problems as well.

Blu isn't perfect. HD-DVD isn't perfect. DVD wasn't perfect.

But one of these HD formats needed to win. Might as well be the one that has 60% more storage and 40% more data throughput. I mean, what's most important, audio/video quality, right? Which medium gives you the greater potential for that? The one with more storage and more data throughput. That's why I supported BD.

 

[Chuck Anstey]

Every player had some discs it couldn't play because the spec was not specific enough in some areas and was left of to the firmware coders to make a decision. That is completely different than not having a spec or just ignoring entire sections of it.

DVD is only 10 years old and it seems most people can no longer remember what is was really like when it was introduced.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Woah There. Sure, your average best-buy TV was 480i. But there were PLENTY of CRT-projectors on the market powered by HT enthusiasts spending up to $20K on faroudja line-doublers to get them to look decent. Those were the HT enthusiasts and there were plenty of them... and it took them a long time to get a DVD player that would output true 480p so they could set that Faroudja aside (or not have to buy one).

It also took a few product cycles to get DTS-bitstream output on DVD players, though I agree that this isn't at the same level of PIP/Web features (again I agree that BD hardware should have required that from day one).

Every player had some discs it couldn't play because the spec was not specific enough in some areas and was left of to the firmware coders to make a decision. That is completely different than not having a spec or just ignoring entire sections of it.

To be fair, BD's spec has evolved. When it was introduced, 1.1 and 2.0 profile weren't finished. And now that 1.1 is ready, all new players MUST be 1.1. However I do agree that it's been a long time coming, and I also think that 2.0 should not be optional (now that it's ready too), but mandatory as well.

 

[Douglas Monce]

The problem is the giant leap doesn't present itself to the consumer so its rather useless. Who cares if its a giant leap in manufacturing when the competition can do exactly the same thing and in some cases do it better with existing technology.

Doug

 

[Adam Gregorich]

I actually agree with most of the posts in this thread. To sum them up:
Both formats have their strengths and weaknesses.

I actually have to commend Universal for their quality improvement as of late. Bourne, the Kingdom, even the catalog title Timecop all were great releases. While they still aren't using lossess on every title, they have been doing a must better job lately. Since both formats have been mentioned in this thread I really have to commend Disney for putting out some of the best quality releaes out there on either format (they fixed Pirates so no need to mention it). They consistently having top notch video and audio not to mention that they are the ones pushing the interactive envelope on the BD side.

 

[Douglas Monce]

In the two years I've had my HD DVD player its locked up on me once. And it is my primary SD DVD player as well.

doug

 

[Edwin-S]

As far as I'm concerned the film should have the best audio and the best video possible. Who gives a shit about web enabled features if you have to listen to Dolby Digital plus instead of a lossless track, Unfortunately, I can't take full advantage of those tracks with my present equipment, but eventually I'll upgrade and then I can revisit all of the BD titles I have and experience them as if they were new purchases. Worthless web features will disappear but I'm stuck with weak DD+ on TRANSFORMERS permanently. Unless, it comes out on BD with lossless and I doubledip. Personally, I would prefer uncompressed PCM or DTS HD MA but I know a lot of people here think those audio codecs are a waste of space. The 1500kps lossy core on KoH still sounded pretty good. I imagine it will sound even better in full lossless.

 

[Douglas Monce]

I really couldn't care less about lossless audio. If its there thats great but its hardly a deal breaker for me. And again with the nonsense that there isn't room. Thats baloney.

Doug

 

[Douglas Monce]

If you can't take advantage of the lossless audio, then how do you know that its really all that much better than DD+?

Doug

 

[Averry]

Those are all reasons why I'm not the least bit embarrassed to have chosen HD-DVD.

 

[Chuck Anstey]

It wasn't just your average BB TV, it was all TVs. The number of people that owned projectors that could have benefitted from 480p was so inconsequential as to be ridiculous to even bring it up. Plus those Faroudja line doublers were far superior to everything else if you believed the marketing and those that owned them did. If you owned a CRT projector in 1997, it cost around $10+K and you also owned some sort of line doubler / video processor to clean up that composite LD signal. The other is 480p looks pretty bad on my Sony G70 CRT because it has huge black lines between each of the 480 active scan lines. Even most 7" tubes were around 600p and scan lines were quite visible from 480p sources.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

I hope for the sake of the rest of the HD DVD community that they do not share your deficit of hearing loss, or the inability to comprehend the bandwidth limits of a format even when the disc's own producers tell you straight up that they didn't have room for lossless audio because of HD DVD's format restrictions.

 

[Edwin-S]

I can listen to two channel uncompressed PCM with my gear. It still sounds better than DD+, even using plain old prologic,

What is more the old lossy DTS 1500 kb/s core also still sounds better than DD+.....at least to me. Others may disagree with mel