TWENTIETH CENTURY FOX HOME ENTERTAINMENT DEBUTS Manufacture-On-Demand DVD SERIES (1 Viewer)

[Robin9]

Robin, actually, I have the UK Diplomatic Courier too but I haven't opened it. I will tonight and compare!

Paula, let us know what you think. I'll have another look at my copy too - just in case I was drunk or something last time!

 

[Thomas T]

I can vouch that the region 2 Spanish Diplomatic Courier is a very solid transfer so I don't know what's up with MOD transfer. As for the artwork, if what Amazon is showing is correct, it's from the original poster art which I always prefer.

 

[PaulaJ]

I just looked at my Region 2 UK DVD of Diplomatic Courier and it seems to be the same extremely grainy transfer.
Here's a frame grab from the Fox Cinema Archive disc:

This actually looks a lot better than what you see on my 60-inch television, where the grains are jiggling like they're in an exercise class. Here it just looks like Patricia Neal has freckles. I guess I'll play around with the TV settings and see if I can reduce the motion. (Or could it be that my mind has been taken over by Jeffrey Wells and I want everything abnormally nice and smooth? Normally I'm in the "grain monk" crowd.)

 

[Adam_S]

that looks like video noise, not grain, compounding the noise problem was that they probably used a pretty grainy print for the telecine, the weak resolution of the equipment used at the time would go extremely noisy trying to resolve the film grain--so where you would see grain in a well resolved image you're actually seeing lots of noise instead, but since it is where you'd expect to see grain, the noise is interrpreted to be grain. It probably comes from an absolutely ANCIENT telecine of the title done sometime in the late 70s or early 80s. You're seeing the resolution limitations of equipment three decades out of date. Also, more noise could have been introduced if this was a copy of a copy of a copy. (each copy being an analog process, so you introduce more noise each time.

 

[PaulaJ]

Thanks for the information, Adam. Noise or grain (and I have no doubt "you are correct, sir!" that this is noise) this just points up the sheer WRONGNESS of using ancient "whatever we have on the shelf" transfers for MOD programs. WAC and Sony do it right.
The SUEZ DVD is quite acceptable however and I have no complaints about that one.
I wonder if the Fox program is going to go the way of the MGM program someday. I certainly don't feel any great enthusiasm for it. I only plan to get titles I'm truly anxious/desperate for.

 

[Justin Ray]

Not to sound like Pollyanna, but I cannot stop raving about my copy of Always Goodbye with Barbara Stanwyck and Herbert Marshall. A bare-bones MOD release, I found the sound and picture quality to equal that of the best WAC titles. Certainly it helps that this title, released in 1938, came before the luster of color or the grandeur of CinemaScope. Without transfer or scope issues, this release proved to be a high note in the newly-developed program from Twentieth Century Fox. I look forward to future releases of the same ilk

 

[Mike*HTF]

Robin or Paula -
I was about to order the R2 until I read your comments - is your pressed disc the Odeon version or the Spanish release? I

 

[PaulaJ]

I have the Odeon. Since it's the same as the Fox disc, I don't need it anymore. PM me your address and I'll mail it to you.

 

[Robin9]

Robin or Paula -
I was about to order the R2 until I read your comments - is your pressed disc the Odeon version or the Spanish release? I

The UK Odeon DVD.

 

[Mike*HTF]

Cheers for that, Paula & Robin - (Paula: ygpm)

 

[Robin9]

This actually looks a lot better than what you see on my 60-inch television, where the grains are jiggling like they're in an exercise class. Here it just looks like Patricia Neal has freckles. I guess I'll play around with the TV settings and see if I can reduce the motion. (Or could it be that my mind has been taken over by Jeffrey Wells and I want everything abnormally nice and smooth? Normally I'm in the "grain monk" crowd.)

I had another look at the Odeon DVD last night, through a front projector, right after watching the Eureka BRD of Double Indemnity, so my eyes were "attuned" to very high quality black and white images. The Odeon DVD does provide grainy images, but they are not as bad as in that screencap. Because Lucien Ballard produced high contrast, sharp focus images, I don't find the grain intrusive. I say the Odeon DVD is pretty good.

 

[JoHud]

One very good transfer I came across on this line was for Dangerous Years. While not entirely spotless, it looks like a relatively recent transfer. I forgot that Marilyn Monroe is in a minor role as a teenage waitress. Could it have been planned for a spot in a MM Diamond DVD Collection?

SUEZ is OK. Not much print damage, decent source element though obviously not remastered. Won't win any prizes, but no raspberries either.

Also "OK, Decent" are the Fox Cinema Archive transfers for Kidnapped and Life Begins at Eight Thirty. They both seem to be from somewhat older telecines, though not VHS-quality. Strictly average picture quality.
Edit: My Wife's Best Friend is another "good" Fox transfer. Not excellent, but on par with average studio DVDs.

 

[SeanAx]

I sat down to watch, start to finish, my first two titles in the 20th Century Fox Cinema Archives.

I concur with PaulaJ about the grain on "Diplomatic Courier." As a still frame, it appears only to be excessively attuned to original film grain, but in motion it is simply noisy, like film grain picked up and exaggerated by video grain, and the effect is like watching an anthill in motion across the faces of the characters. In some of busy gray areas of the image, like on faces or clothing, I found periodic chroma issues, with pools of color noise arising from the gray.

"Way of a Gaucho" is a Technicolor film, but the hues are muted and soft, more like old two-strip Technicolor than the strong, bold, sharp Technicolor of the forties and fifties. Mostly the transfer has fine (though hardly stand-out) clarity, but lots of shots have images that tend to blur slightly. I can't say with any authority that this is a transfer issue rather than a print problem, but the way it comes and goes suggests an inattentive digital transfer.

(FYI, I really enjoyed the Cold War espionage culture of "Diplomatic Courier" and while I'm a big Ty Power fan, the performances by Patricia Neal and Karl Malden really liven up the film. "Way of a Gaucho" less compelling, with Rory Calhoun an anemic rebel hero and Hugh Marlowe his usual stiff figure of social conformity, but Gene Tierney is heavenly and Richard Boone delivers the most engaging character of the movie, a military officer who is Calhoun's respectful nemesis.)

I'll be writing these up for Videodrone on MSN later (http://social.entertainment.msn.com/movies/blogs/videodrone-blog.aspx), but here are a few observations based on my viewing and the comments I've read here and on Lou Lumenick's columns.

It appears to me that Fox is going through the same issues that Warner, MGM, and Sony all faced when they started their own programs. They are essentially pulling off-the-shelf masters for their initial releases and not paying attention to quality control issues. I wonder if there is an issue in the digital delivery system from the digital master to the burner that is enhancing the video grain issues? Or something they can do to quiet the inherent issues with the busy grain?

So I see a period of growing pains, where they learn the very same lessons that Warner et al discovered along the way. And for that reason, we should point out these issues and hold Fox to the standards established by the mature players in the MOD market, and at the same time cut them a little slack while they address the issues. It sounds contradictory, I know, but seeing how Warner and MGM and Sony all found their way, I want to give Fox the same opportunity to get their system in order.

 

[PaulaJ]

Has MGM found its way? As far as I know, it is still using whatever masters exist, which is especially problematic with all those films, mostly from the 1950s, shot flat and released on DVD in open matte format, as MGM won't spend the time or money to remaster widescreen.
That said, apart from the open matte issue, I've been pretty happy with the MGM discs I've bought. They're not going to knock anyone's socks off but (except for the open matte thing), I haven't seen anything like the visual distortion of Fox's Diplomatic Courier. I just wish they'd remaster those 50s films for the right aspect ratio. I'd have bought a lot more titles from MGM if not for that one issue.
The cover art on the MGMs and Fox discs also need an upgrade.

 

[SeanAx]

Originally Posted by PaulaJ /t/321686/twentieth-century-fox-home-entertainment-debuts-manufacture-on-demand-dvd-series/90#post_3954556
The cover art on the MGMs and Fox discs also need an upgrade.

Indeed. It took Warner sometime to figure that one out themselves. Their cover are is terrific. Sony is also drab.

MGM has too many open matte releases, to be sure, but their digital masters are otherwise fine.

I hope the problem really is just growing pains, learning as they go along, but the fact that they are not learning from what Warner as already been through is troublesome. Isn't anyone looking around to see how the other guys are doing, and where they stumbled and corrected themselves?

I really do believe that there are people at Warner Archive who love the films they put out and are doing their best within their means to give us high-quality discs. Mistakes are made, but Warner acknowledges, corrects, and communicates.

I'm still waiting for the other MOD programs to prove the same.

 

[JoHud]

Watched The Foxes of Harrow, and it definitely had a laserdisc era quality. The first 30-60 min in particular, despite the high budget sets and A-list production, looked murky and fuzzy. It started to improve during the second half, fortunately. I'd say it is on a lower rung compared to other 40s Fox Cinema Archive released.

It appears to me that Fox is going through the same issues that Warner, MGM, and Sony all faced when they started their own programs. They are essentially pulling off-the-shelf masters for their initial releases and not paying attention to quality control issues.

The only difference is that the WAC or Sony MOD, even in its infancy, never used P&S transfers for their widescreen era films and the transfers were always anamorphic, with an oddball exception of White Line Fever. So there were some quality control issues when considering how many P&S transfers the WAC had available initially and never used non-anamorphic or open matte transfers. Even in 2009, the WAC had some quality control in terms of their widescreen films. Also Sony was very strong out of the starting gate, with the only weakness being packaging design and an aversion against packaging multiple films or releasing shorts/TV (especially shorts). Sony has neither improved or declined over the years--their transfers were enviable from the get-go.
I agree on the WAC in terms of overall transfer quality, particularly regarding b&W films. Ted Turner-era video transfers and The Big House-style muddy transfers are primarily a thing of the past, but weren't uncommon during the first year of the WAC.
Considering Fox's partnership with MGM and its MOD line, it's surprising that they didn't learn a thing or two from them. MGM, while having major issues with open-matte transfers, corrected all of the non-anamorphic letterboxed transfers they had issued during their first year of operation. They've also don't seem to have ever P&S'd a Panavision or Cinemascope OAR, which Fox is currently attempting to excuse.
I sincerely hope they attempt to get better, especially with widescreen era transfers. Because it currently embodies the worst sort of MOD line, especially for 2012.

 

[Thomas T]

Considering the comments here on the Odeon and Fox MOD Diplomatic Courier and now the Fox MOD Foxes Of Harrow, could it be the the Spanish transfers are from a different source? I have the Spanish Courier and Harrow and they look just fine, especially Harrow..
Could the size of the monitor make a difference? I'm watching on a 32" so I suppose if you're watching on a 50" flaws may possibly be more apparent.

 

[Robin9]

Considering the comments here on the Odeon and Fox MOD Diplomatic Courier and now the Fox MOD Foxes Of Harrow, could it be the the Spanish transfers are from a different source? I have the Spanish Courier and Harrow and they look just fine, especially Harrow..
Could the size of the monitor make a difference? I'm watching on a 32" so I suppose if you're watching on a 50" flaws may possibly be more apparent.

Both the Odeon DVD of Diplomatic Courier and the Spanish DVD of The Foxes Of Harrow look good on 50" screens - and on still larger ones as well.

 

[JoHud]

I may have been a bit harsh on The Foxes of Harrow. I spot-checked it again and it is pretty passable for the most part. I wouldn't call it bad, just that it seems more rough in spots rather than as a whole. The scenes involving Fox visiting and working his newly won property stuck out as particularly weak visually.
I think my screen size may have had something to do with it. However, I'd still say the transfer was not a recent one and shows its age.

 

[SeanAx]

Originally Posted by JoHud /t/321686/twentieth-century-fox-home-entertainment-debuts-manufacture-on-demand-dvd-series/90#post_3955119
The only difference is that the WAC or Sony MOD, even in its infancy, never used P&S transfers for their widescreen era films and the transfers were always anamorphic, with an oddball exception of White Line Fever. So there were some quality control issues when considering how many P&S transfers the WAC had available initially and never used non-anamorphic or open matte transfers.

Agreed, that is another issue entirely. There is no excuse for a pan-and-scan release, and very few legitimate reasons to put out a non-anamorphic widescreen release. I can only hope that the folks higher up in the Fox organization have an investment in their library and their legacy and take steps to see that their Cinema Archive releases reflect the best they have to offer.