Trying to understand my sound setup (1 Viewer)

[nodiaque]

Hello everyone, I have a onkyo tx-sr606 home theater that I'm trying to setup correctly. It's a 7.1 ht. I used the auto calibration method 3 times in a row (I've been told that running it more then once will make the calibration better). I tried the setup for about 3 weeks and it's ok, but when watching tv shows, I have to crank the volume to 50-55 (where starting at 45, there isn't a big difference between the sound volume) where 75 is the max. I saw there is a crossover settings for all channels. I tried understanding them and I want to be sure I'm doing good on that. Here is the stock value after calibration: sub: yes front: 120hz center: 150hz surround: 150hz surround back: 150hz surround back channel: 2ch lpf or lfe: 80hz I used to have intellivolume to +12db, but once I read about it on how it was working, I understood why the sound was bad and turned it back to 0, which make the sound crisper but a bit less high (not that much). Now, I also have the volume setup properly for each channel, except the center that I gave higher sound volume (about 2-3 more) because I always have problem hearing/understanding what people are saying. While this happen, it is the main reason why the sound is so high when I listen, the voice coming from the center volume is low. I have my EQ off and all optimizer/filter off. I'm on manual EQ, where I can set each channel sound, but there all are at 0 because I'm unsure what value to change: Subwoofer 25hz 40hz 63hz 100hz 160hz Front 63hz 250hz 1000hz 4000hz 16000hz Now, this is something I'm unsure. The calibration value entered aboce (not the eq), what does it mean? As for what I understand, it would be the crossover. Meaning that anything from 0-80 is sent to sub. Then anything from 0-120 is sent to front, and 0-150 sent to center and surrounds + surrounds back. But then, why can I crank on the eq HZ that are higher the 120? Like you can see, I'm all lost with all these settings and reading on the subject since to simply lost me even more. I won't ask for what the value should be since it's all down to personnal preference, but I'd like to understand all these settings, how they work and how to "play" with them to change the sound experience properly. I know THX have a 80hz reference for the subs, but that's about it. Thanks!

 

[schan1269]

For one, the "list of frequencies" is the equalizer. Not crossover. Have absolutely nothing, at all, to do with each other. What speakers are these? As they must be tiny. And your subwoofer should be moved up to 120, or 150. How tiny your center is is probably the entire problem in hearing anything.

 

[nodiaque]

I think they are called satellite speaker. It's the same (at least the center match the model and the other, including subs look the same) as this one: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-ONmIM2RD81D/p_580HT7100B/Onkyo-HT-S7100-Black.html As for the list of frequencies (last list I input), I know it's the EQ (I even said so), but then again, how does crossover works regarding those 2?

 

[schan1269]

Ok, crossover and the EQ are separate entities. Nothing to do with each other. You set the EQ preference regardless of your crossover and you set your crossovers with no care in the world for what you've done with the EQ. All the EQ's job is is to "even out the sound". That is it. Where your speaker has a peak, you reduce the frequency. Where there is a dip, you raise it. Where your 5.0 speakers no longer produce sound(in the case of these...150hz) you set the crossover. You set your subwoofer "there"(wherever there is) to do what your 5.0 can't. So, raise your subwoofer. Try raising the center to 200hz and see if that helps.

 

[nodiaque]

ok, I raised to 200 my center (max value) and my sub to 90 (before I read your post) and it was already better. As for the sub, the max value is 120. So if I understand well, the crossover simply say " everything below this range, you give it to me". but what is the range? I though since it was in hz, it was the sound hz like the eq but its clearly not like you said. So when we say we put the center to 200 hz and the subs to 90 hz, that means what? What this hz value are? If I have sub at 120 and a speaker at 120, what does it change? I though setting the subs at 80 would say "send me everything from 0 to 80 to me" and setting speaker at 120 would be "I take everything from sub max (80) to 120". I guess I really don't understand what crossover values mean and react together. edit: I think by reading again your post, I got where I'm wrong, but I'm unsure. If I understand good, my subs take from a crossover value (let's say 80) and take from 0 to 80hz. Then, if I put my front at 120, it will take 120 to max range. So setting my center to 200 would "clean out" everything that shouldn't be there? Reading what I just wrote seems to make no sense at all...

 

[nodiaque]

ok, I just finally found a good guide on understanding crossover, what it does and everything. Now I know how to play with it. For reference. maybe other user would like to read on it: The basics of HT: http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/connecting-your-system/basic-home-theater-setup-guide Bass managements basics (crossovers): http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/bass-management-basics-2013-settings-made-simple thanks again!

 

[schan1269]

Setting your sub "at 80" and your 5.0 "at 120" leaves you a gaping hole from 80-120. As in nothing is producing sound from 80-120(granted crossovers aren't a "brick wall", they are a slope). Raise your subwoofer to match the lowest crossover of the "other 5". That is what you are supposed to do with every single set of speakers ever created...and will ever be created in the history of time. Your EQ, again, is to even out the sound. Nothing more, nothing less, nothing else...at all. EQ and crossover have zero, nothing, nada, zilch, correlation with each other...ever. Once you do, however, set your crossover correctly....then the EQ can do its job. Cause the EQ can only do its job when you don't have a gaping hole in your coverage(that would be the 80-120 hole you had before). To make it clearer...think of the crossover and EQ this way... In home theater.... Crossover is the entire house. EQ is the furniture you put in it.

 

[Al.Anderson]

You're on the right track. Both the crossover and the equalizer deal in hertz. The complete range of the sound goes from about 20hz to about 20 thousand hz (20 kHz). The crossover does mean send everything below "X" to the sub (except it's a slope, not a sudden cut-over). So if your crossover is set to 80hz everything from 80-20kHz goes to the mains. An equalizer is a bit different. It works in ranges. If you have speakers (or more likely a speaker/room combination) that has too much or too little sound between, say 1kHz to 2, you can use an equalizer to boost or trim that range. Take this speaker's frequency graph:

It has a bump from about 80hz to 120 hz. Some people like this boost, but if you wanted a flat response curve you would go to your equalizer and drop the gain at 100hz. Back to the crossover again, using that same graph you can see that it starts to roll off around 70-80 hz. So you'd want the sub crossover for that speaker to be set at somewhere between 80 and 100 hz.

 

[nodiaque]

Learning how the crossover works really now help a lot. I though it was the max value for each speaker, but I wasn't able to understand how it would be possible. Though, the hz are the same in eq and crossover, just that in eq you change the volume of the range when, in the crossover, you say where you want to start the range of the speaker and where you want to end the range of the sub. I've raised the subs to 120, front are at 120, surround+back at 150 and center at 200. Should I enabled dynamic EQ? I'm not very good with EQ, specially since I'm having trouble ID what sound is what from range (I have been diagnose with a higher earing sensitivity, meaning I can ear sounds above normal human ear, which is really problematic because I always have some sort of distortion in what I hear, making me a bad sound tester), but it would be surely better to have the sound properly set by hand then a preset eq. Plus, like if there wasn't enough settings in that system, I have a basse/treble gain that I can set. Too bad there isn't a voice gain. thanks again for all you help, it really have shedded some light.

 

[schan1269]

The Audyssey in your AVR is meant to "flatten" the frequency response. That is what EQ were created to do. Do you "listen flat"? Probably not. Run the Audyssey again now that you've set the crossover. It will help...and you can "tweak it" afterwards. There is no "correct answer" in EQ...as it is personal preference.

 

[nodiaque]

audyssey is... the mic thing for calibration? Ran it 3 times, he plays with the crossover when I do that, he was the one to raise my side and back to 150. I do have audyssey settings in eq, never used it, always were at off or manual (with nothing yet). I used to use the dynamic eq settings. I'll try audyssey settings to see how it sounds.

 

[nodiaque]

I would like to thanks the two of you that have just helped me understanding how all of this stuff works. I just turned up my subs to 120, keep front at 120, put isde/rear at 150 like the calibration put them, and put center at 200. Turned the audyssey eq on and bam, eargasm! Seriously, I just watch another episode of my tv show at.... 38! Sure the audyssey eq surely help, but the speaker sound so much crisper. Thank you again, you just made a home theater sound way better (and improving my knowledge too, which I really like).