Titles of Flip Discs being test marketed... (1 Viewer)

[Will_B]

The players could (and should) have a small, digital-camera sized LCD monitor (an inch or an inch and a bit) on the front panel of the DVDA or SACD player.

Such a little screen wouldn't be much good if you're across the room using a remote, but it would certainly solve the problem to some extent, if you walk up to it.

 

[Will_B]

I am shocked, shocked I tell you... oh wait, one of those guys was me. :b


At least I started my auction way way way lower than what that other guy is trying to get. Fifty dollars for a disc that may very well become widely available within the year? Not nice.

 

[John Kotches]

Rachael,

Bad design is bad design. I'm kind of used to my SACD1000, where a push of "Sound Mode" allows me to switch between stereo and MC, on the fly at roughly the same location in the track.

My point, which seems to have escaped a few, is that blaming the format for a poor player implementation is misguided.

Cheers,

 

[Phil A]

Will, some of the pre/pros already have a small LCD screen. While these are not your cheap everyday products, hopefully the costs of the technology will come down and get into less expensive stuff.

John, that is the same point I made. I'm not knocking the sound quality of the format. I can set the default of the DV-47A player in my bedroom for SACD hybrids to read either the CD Audio, SACD Stereo or SACD Multi-Channel, which, vs. having a button on the remote that lets one toggle between CD or SACD or SACD Stereo/SACD Multi-Channel is my definition of poor implementation. I see nothing wrong with someone who likes the same flavor every time or just wants sound coming out of the speakers. If I had a choice between 2 supermarkets the same distance from my house and one carried one brand and one flavor of soft drink and one type of snack food, I'd rather opt for the one with choices as long as its my money. The SACD 1000 is one of the few designs I've seen that actually let's one shift on the fly bewteen stereo and multi-channel SACD.

The point some are trying to make is that rather than spend efforts on flippers, some might prefer to see more software (at good price points), a std. that allows the audio button to toggle between stereo and multi-channel on the software, etc. DVD-A seems unsure of where it wants to go as a format. There have been multiple launches and different things tried but sooner or later they need to at least get some decent amts. of software out the door by name artists on labels like Warner that have a huge catalog of music.

 

[Rachael B]

John, I think blame is warranted. Furthermore, who else could you blame for many of both format's woes? Let's see, output restrictions, output restrictions, and also output restrictions too. Design restrictions, hmnn, this goes for both formats. Hey, I bought my 2900 despite it's little warts and moles. I knew what they were.

I'd say Sony's wishy wash stance on M/C is culpable. DVD-A's weak format requirements are a problem. I have to search the fine print of these discs trying to discover if they include a stereo mix, and sometimes I stille don't know and have to resort to the internet to find out. This is a problem. The creators of these formats are partially or mostly responsible for many of these formats shortcomings, IMO.

Now we have uni players that make one or both formats inconvient to operate. Hey, I'm cynical, I know it, so what? I think I have a right to be! Best wishes!

 

[Justin Lane]

The funny thing with the entire SACD vs. DVD-A ease of useability debate is that as Universal players become more of the standard, SACD is becoming less and less user friendly (and in many cases more difficult than DVD-A to use, requiring you to go into the actual player menus). I own an SACD only player by Sony, but guess what...they stopped manufacturing such players for the most part.

If (a big if) and when the general public starts to give even a little damn about SACD, they will probably end up purchasing a non-user friendly Universal player. (Sony themselves will probably soon be going down that route as well from all indications).Ease of use will be meaningless at that point.

Of course I still expect to see the same posts from the same posters proclaiming SACD's ease of use as I do today. Easily useable SACD players are a thing of the past my friends. We need to hang onto our antique Sack-Dee only players, and remember the good times.

J

 

[ElevSkyMovie]

So do all of these new flipper discs have high-rez tracks or do some only have DD surround and 16/48 PCM tracks? Wow, this is getting confusing, and I LOVE audio. I can't imagine how confusing it must be to someone with a passing interest.

They must think: "I'll just get the cd (or download an mp3 of the single)."

 

[Felix Martinez]

This is exactly what I do with my Panny RP-91 (a DVD-A player) and Onkyo 800 (universal DVD-A/SACD). Of all the DVD-As I own and/or reviewed, I don't believe I've ever had to fire up the projector.

However, to hear the stereo DSD layer on SACDs, I have to go to the Onkyo's set-up menu (requiring a monitor) and manually select the stereo layer.

Cheers,

 

[Felix Martinez]

I haven't seen the DualDisc packaging, but DVD-As have been pretty good detailing what bonus features are available on what format (DVD-A/DVD-V) on the back covers. I believe Warner/Rhino even has an extensive grid.

Cheers,

 

[John Kotches]

Rachael says:


Mandated resampling for a delivery channel is far worse IMO. One person's flexiblity is another person's weak requirements.

Packaging is improving, the latest WB, Universal and DTS titles clearly indicate content.

While we disagree, at least we're doing so in a civil fashion.

Cheers,

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I think these recent posts raise a very good point. The industry must do a better job of making the playback process as simple and convenient as possible.

I agree with Rachael that this is probably hurting both formats...

 

[Will_B]

The DVD side of the disc can only hold a DVD-5's worth of info, so if there's lot of video stuff, there probably won't be room for high res tracks. Depends on the artist how they want to balance the options.

By the way everyone, the David Bowie Reality DualDisc is now entirely sold out at the Boston area store I'd been getting mine from. I suppose it is possible that some scalper simply walked in and bought them all (it wasn't me), but, the other artists' discs were still there. Bowie's disc seems to be different in that the video content on the DVD side isn't available anywhere else (the long-form music video, about a half hour long). That, plus some of the Bowie fan sites just started reporting on it... that probably drove some fans into the stores.

In a related note, the dick on ebay who is scalping the discs for $50 complained to ebay that my auction was too similar to his (I'd used his scan of the product). His being a dick didn't effect the sale, but I got a slap on the wrist reminder to always do my own scans. That has motivated me to find more of the Bowie discs and continue to undercut his highway robbery prices... assuming I can FIND any more of them. Like I said, they're becoming scarce to nonexistant...

 

[LanceJ]

The dvd-video format can contain up to a 96kHz/24bit stereo track and nowadays just about all dvd players have a 96/24 DAC to decode them.

Doing a search on the "DAD" format will yield more info on this subject.

LJ

 

[Phil A]

The (reality of) inconsistent treatment by DVD-A players has even been noted by a proponent of the format:

http://www.highfidelityreview.com/ne...umber=11902695

Per Michael Hobson president of classic records explaing why they went to their dual-sided DVD-A hi-rez (192k) stereo and DVD-V hi-rez (96k DAD) discs:

"Although experiments were conducted with DVD-9 discs (dual-layer), it was found that DVD-Audio players were often inconsistent when it came to the default audio track selection when two stereo mixes were present, therefore even those with DVD-A compatible hardware could unwittingly find themselves listening to the 96kHz version."

 

[ElevSkyMovie]

I understand that PCM of those specs can be there, I just didn't know if there was a standard of some kind on these new flippers. To call one side dvd-audio when some discs reportedly don't have anything above 16/48 on that side, seems like a really bad idea. If the discs are not labeled or are improperly labeled, this flipper disc will just muddy the waters more.

 

[Al B. C]

I'm afraid this whole thing is just one big giant fuck up.

What are these guys thinking?

 

[Will_B]

I think they're trying to bypass the aura of elitism that SACD and DVDA have. Course, they only have that aura because they haven't been marketed properly in the first place.

Maybe if SACD or DVDA bought kiosks in stores like the DualDisc folks have done...

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Got my Bowie disc (thanks, Will), and I like it a lot. Killer value, and very easy to tell which side is which (much easier than with flipper DVDs). Plays fine in all my players.

All it needs is high-res. And there is plenty of room for at least 24/48 stereo/surround (or 24/96 surround) on the DVD side.

If I didn't have the Fagen disc already, I'd be all over it. I would consider it a near-perfect release, and it is absolutely a steal in DualDisc format.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Thanks Phil for providing the key post so far. This sums up nicely the dilemma of the current market.

And now we get confirmation from Michael about a lack of hirez. That destroys the value proposition for the entire audiophile/serious music fan market IMHO.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Yep, way to go Sony. All the other discs have high-res; in fact, the other discs all seem to contain the exact contents of the previous DVD-A releases...for the price of the CD layer alone.

Then again, if SACD can keep grinding away with no WEA support, high-res DualDisc could survive without Sony.

There's a lot of speculation as to why the Brubeck discs got pulled back before release...maybe Brubeck found out that, unlike the other labels, Sony was planning on releasing only lossy surround and Redbook stereo...no high-res...and decided that his music deserves better.