Titanic (1997) (1 Viewer)

[WillG]

poor Jenette Goldstein, doomed to be Vasquez forever...

Look at it this way, outside of Cameron films she's a mostly unknown actress, yet she has made a mark on cinema that will be remembered for a long time.

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

I'll remember her as 'Shapiro' the cop who got blown up real good in her pool in Lethal Weapon 2 lol.

 

[WillG]

I'll remember her as 'Shapiro' the cop who got blown up real good in her pool in Lethal Weapon 2 lol.

She did exhibit nice form off the diving platform

 

[Johnny Angell]

Has she lived through a movie?

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Saw this yesterday - non-IMAX, unfortunately, but at least it was a private screening, as no one else came to that showing! Thought the 3D worked pretty well. I've only seen two other modern 3D movies - "Avatar" and "Tangled" - so I don't know how it compares to others. Would be curious to check out additional "converted" 3D flicks to see if they work better/worse/the same.

Enjoyed it - felt like I'd not seen the movie in ages, so I got wrapped up in it all over again.

BTW, in the "rich = bad" discussion, I think it's less black and white than many argue, even with the more overtly "wicked" characters. Cal and Rose's mom aren't entirely one-note, as the film does give them some humanity. Though we often believe that Cal views Rose as a "prize" and a possession, I think he really does care about her and it pains him that she doesn't feel the same. For instance, his final scene - in which he searches for her on the Carpathia - demonstrates that he does feel love and concern for her, and that's not the only time we see this.

Rose's mom gets fewer instances in which she shows her humanity, but they're there. When she's on the lifeboat and believes Rose is gone, we can see real pain there.

Are Rose's mom and Cal cartoony much of the time? Yes, but they're not as one-note as many seem to believe.

On the other hand, I do agree that Jack is about as much of a cartoon good guy as you could imagine - he gets no rough edges at all. One could argue this makes sense since the storycomes from elderly Rose's perspective and she will have idealized her memories of her true love, but given that so much of the film leaves Rose's POV, that's not a logical explanation, IMO...

 

[TravisR]

BTW, in the "rich = bad" discussion, I think it's less black and white than many argue, even with the more overtly "wicked" characters.  Cal and Rose's mom aren't entirely one-note, as the film does give them some humanity.  Though we often believe that Cal views Rose as a "prize" and a possession, I think he really does care about her and it pains him that she doesn't feel the same.  For instance, his final scene - in which he searches for her on the Carpathia - demonstrates that he does feel love and concern for her, and that's not the only time we see this.

I think that scene and the one where he gives her the diamond are the two scenes where he let his guard down and you see that he does care for her and it's not just about him owning his soon-to-be-wife. Similar to his real response on the Carpathia, the diamond giving scene shows that he's into her and legitimately bothered that she's not that into him ("Oh, open your heart to me, Rose.").

 

[Paul.S]

Going to see it in RealD 3D to compare the 2.35 OAR experience to the ~1.77 (?) IMAX 3D experience.

Saw the RealD last night. There's an aspect ratio conundrum at work for me: I enjoyed the larger screen presentation of (true) IMAX. But multiple viewings when I first fell in love with the pic back in the day have left me viscerally inclined to those first 2.35 impressions (and I generally like 2.35 anyway). But the by comparison smaller screen of the non-IMAX presentation--even on a large screen at Arclight Hollywood--was definitely noticeable for me. And surprisingly to me, by comparison I noticed a tightness/less headroom in shots/framing in the 2.35 experience moreso than all the additional sea and sky/top and bottom of frame information in the 1.85 IMAX experience.
Another 3D-specific concern is that I love the way the confluence of 1) the steep rake/grade of the floor; 2) the level of elevation of most seats vis-a-vis the screen; and 3) all seats' closer proximity to the screen for immersion in a true IMAX house enable you to sit in the center of the house, be looking at the center of the screen while also very close to that screen. I think this made for a better 3D experience. You have to be much farther back to get high enough in a non-IMAX theater to be looking directly at the center of the screen. So far back that it feels much less immersive to me. So I sat closer to get the immersion at first in RealD, but had to move back because I was way below the axis of looking directly at center. I'm speculating that this is why I saw ghosting in the RealD 3D (I don't know, maybe this is an issue inherent to RealD 3D versus IMAX 3D).
Since the theater was largely empty, just before that killer score cue finally kicks in to accompany the sinking of the ship, I moved back two rows to the wheelchair area in the big aisle dividing the front two rows from the rest of the elevated seats--a compromise position. I was slightly higher and saw less ghosting, but was a wee bit further away than I'd like to be. Maybe I was too busy enjoying Horner's anvil-clanking goodness accompanying what remains one of the most spectacular sequences I've ever seen to notice 3D ghosting though.
Can't believe--but love that--I'm still seeing little details for the first time: the (beautiful!) fresh flowers Trudy puts on the fireplace in Cal and Rose's stateroom are appropriately less fresh/a little wilted in later scenes; Jack's corduroy pants hanging by the suspenders from a door in the background of the shot as he puts on Molly Brown's son's tux; the guy who was hustling to get all of his workers out of the boiler rooms through the closing watertight doors survives--he is standing at the base of the staircase as Cal walks down it on the Carpathia to look for Rose ("Sir, I don't think you'll find any of your people down here. It's all steerage.").
Two young girls walked out during the closing credits singing along with "My Heart Will Go On." Nice.

 

[Mikael Soderholm]

Though we often believe that Cal views Rose as a "prize" and a possession, I think he really does care about her and it pains him that she doesn't feel the same.  For instance, his final scene - in which he searches for her on the Carpathia - demonstrates that he does feel love and concern for her, and that's not the only time we see this.

Unless, of course, he is actually searching for the Heart of Gold, the diamond, and not her...
But when he gives it to her, he shows her he cares, I agree. 'open your heart to me' seems sincere to me.

 

[WillG]

Though we often believe that Cal views Rose as a "prize" and a possession, I think he really does care about her and it pains him that she doesn't feel the same. For instance, his final scene - in which he searches for her on the Carpathia - demonstrates that he does feel love and concern for her, and that's not the only time we see this.

Maybe, but I could also interpret alot of it as not so much genuine compassion for Rose but more of Cal not wanting his ego bruised at the thought of losing what he considers his. I could buy that he does care for her in a superficial enough way that he would attempt to find out if she survived and try to reclaim her as the odds were very good that Jack did not survive.
We get a few scenes showing that Rose's Mother cares for her, but ultimately she cares more about maintaining her status than Rose's happiness, so again, it's pretty superficial.
Ultimately, the few moments of supposed morality they get, I don't think elevates their dimensionality as characters all that much.
I always though a good example of this type of character that does a pretty good 180 through the course of the movie was Geena Davis's ex-Boyfriend in "The Fly" He often comes off as an obnoxious jerk, but you do get the sense that he's carrying a good deal of pain over the dissolution of their relationship. And in the last act of the film, he does genuinely pull though for her.

but given that so much of the film leaves Rose's POV, that's not a logical explanation, IMO...

Yeah, I'm in agreement. We know Rose is telling the story to Paxton's crew, be we, as the audience cannot be seeing the story through Rose. It's like in Saving Private Ryan, the camera closes in on the elderly version of Ryan as if he's remembering it all, but obviously we're not seeing things from his perspective.

 

[TravisR]

the guy who was hustling to get all of his workers out of the boiler rooms through the closing watertight doors survives--he is standing at the base of the staircase as Cal walks down it on the Carpathia to look for Rose ("Sir, I don't think you'll find any of your people down here. It's all steerage.").

He's also seen trying to cut the lifeboat free as they lower one down on top of the other.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Originally Posted by TravisR /t/319813/titanic-imax-3d/90#post_3920413
I think that scene and the one where he gives her the diamond are the two scenes where he let his guard down and you see that he does care for her and it's not just about him owning his soon-to-be-wife. Similar to his real response on the Carpathia, the diamond giving scene shows that he's into her and legitimately bothered that she's not that into him ("Oh, open your heart to me, Rose.").

Don't forget the scene Cal begs Rose to get into the lifeboat...

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Maybe, but I could also interpret alot of it as not so much genuine compassion for Rose but more of Cal not wanting his ego bruised at the thought of losing what he considers his. I could buy that he does care for her in a superficial enough way that he would attempt to find out if she survived and try to reclaim her as the odds were very good that Jack did not survive.

Sorry, I just don't agree with that. Cal looks genuinely forlorn as he searches for Rose - that's not the look of a guy searching for a necklace or a "possessed woman".

Again, Cal and Rose's mother are far from being 3-dimensional characters - even in 3D! - but I do think they get moments of genuine humanity. Even some of Cal's excesses - like when he shoots at Jack - seem to come more from his love for Rose and anger at losing to Jack than his simple arrogance...

 

[Tino]

On a Titanic related note, A Night To Remember, arguably the best Titanic film ever made, will be showing tomorrow night at the Loews Jersey in Jersey City NJ at 6pm followed by The Poseidon Adventure at 8:25.
A sea disaster double feature! So if you are in the NYC metro area and are interested in seeing these two films in a authentic movie palace, be there or be square.

 

[WillG]

Cal looks genuinely forlorn as he searches for Rose - that's not the look of a guy searching for a necklace or a "possessed woman".

Well, there is the whole "I just lived though one of the greatest disasters of the 20th century and barely escaped with my life" thing. I think anyone would look forlorn.
But seriously, I'll pay more attention to those scenes next time, but I still maintain that Cal cares for Rose not as much as a person he truly loves but more as a prized possession. Take the breakfast scene, he slaps her face quite severely as an act of "how dare you humiliate me by running around with the Street Rat" or the way he orders dinner for her before even inquiring as to whether she likes what he's chosen for her or how he's dismissive about her taste in Art. Even the scene where he gives her the necklace, he comes and and says "I know you've been melancholy" and then presents her with the necklace instead of bothering to try to find out why she's melancholy (let me know if I'm remembering the scene incorrectly). So, at best he's dismissive of Rose's feelings and at worst, truly abusive. These are not the acts of someone who respects the said person. So even when it appears he is showing compassion or forlorning for Rose, I'm still not convinced. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree here.

 

[Paul.S]

He's also seen trying to cut the lifeboat free as they lower one down on top of the other.

Ah, yes. I've often wondered what the fate of those folks was (did one or both boats capsize?). Perhaps the intimation of the boiler room supervisor's survival is that they all did (or at least the ones in the boat he was in)?

 

[TravisR]

Ah, yes. I've often wondered what the fate of those folks was (did one or both boats capsize?). Perhaps the intimation of the boiler room supervisor's survival is that they all did (or at least the ones in the boat he was in)?

The lifeboat in the water was able to cut themselves free of the falls and get out from under the descending boat so neither lifeboat was damaged. The scene is depicted in a realistic way but they just cut away from the less-than-exciting resolution so they can demonstrate how things are getting chaotic.

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

He's also seen trying to cut the lifeboat free as they lower one down on top of the other.

Ah, yes. I've often wondered what the fate of those folks was (did one or both boats capsize?). Perhaps the intimation of the boiler room supervisor's survival is that they all did (or at least the ones in the boat he was in)?

Those were boats #13 and #15 and everyone in both survived, they managed to cut the ropes in time and get out from underneath #15.

 

[Paul.S]

Those were boats #13 and #15 and everyone in both survived, they managed to cut the ropes in time and get out from underneath #15.

Thanks; exactly what I wanted/needed to know. I was about to post inquiring whether the disposition of those boats/passengers is known/shown explicitly from/in the film and I'm just not recognizing the boats when they're later shown onscreen "out of danger," or if we know this from the actual events.

 

[Harmy]

Let me just chip in with what I already wrote elsewhere:

I saw Titanic in 3D today and dude was it awesome!
First, the 3D conversion was flawless; 99% of the time it seriously looked like it was shot in 3D and even though it didn't have any of the stuff-happening-right-in-front-of-your-face effects that I enjoy so much, for the first time in my life, I didn't even miss them - here, for me, the 3D did exactly what it's supposed to do according to the advocates of the behind-the-screen 3D: it made it a more immersive experience - and yet I was consciously aware that I'm watching 3D throughout the whole of over 3 hours (something that is very desirable, since you're paying the extra money for the 3D). The transfer was pretty great too; I heard Cameron saying somewhere that they did some grain removal but he said the same thing about the Aliens BD transfer and it was plenty grainy. I definitely saw no typical signs of DVNR, like waxiness or smearing.
Second, the movie itself lost none of it's charm and epicness for me (and had some extra added on top by the 3D). I saw Titanic more times than I care to admit, in the cinema, on VHS, on TV, on DVD and in HD and the 194 minutes still just flew by in a blur of awesomeness. Sure, it's a cheesy love-story and it's a bit melodramatic from time to time but it is so masterfully executed that it simply makes me forget all that and enjoy the ride. It was simply a beautiful cinematic experience; on several occasions, I found myself smiling so wide that the corners of my mouth were tickling my ears - and not because it was funny but out of sheer enjoyment. It was also the first time I shed a few tears watching Titanic - but it wasn't when Leonardo died, they weren't sad tears - it was in the final moments of the ship sinking and they were tears of joy, because what was happening on (and behind) the screen in front of me was so awesomely epic and such a beautiful piece of film-making, it got me to a state of pure movie enjoyment.
Now this is what I call a movie-going experience. Thank you Mr. Cameron, I forgive you for Avatar now

Now, I want to talk about the changes. A) As a purist I'm bothered by them on principle (similarly to how I'm bothered by the removal of the hole in the floor in Aliens Blu-Ray) but I can live with them, they don't ruin the movie or even affect the viewing experience by any means (which, on the other hand, only makes them all the more pointless) but they're frauds in terms of film history, so I would of course be happier if the Blu-Ray contained both versions via seamless branching but that's probably not going to happen. B) I have a note about the added stars and the removed string. I checked the 1080p HDTV version of the Collector's DVD master and the stars aren't visible there either, so it's not a resolution problem but if the stars were very subtle, it could well be a transfer or encode problem, the stars in those shots could very well have fallen victim to DVNR or compression. The string, while I don't doubt it has been removed, I'd assign to the dirt cleanup and the 3D conversion rather than it being a concious change. As to the blue/green screen shots, the 3D would naturally make any composited shot look much more believable, so it makes perfect sense, that they'd look better in the 3D version.
I also watched the deleted scenes and the longer alternate ending on the Collector's Edition DVDs yesterday and I must say that I'd love to see an extended edition of Titanic with all those scenes included. The flow of the movie would probably suffer but it would be really interesting to see it that way; and again, it could be done as a branched alternate version (kinda like the DC of Alien on BD - Ridley Scott says that he actually prefers the theatrical version of Alien but he made the DC as an interesting alternate take on the movie). It would also follow in a James Cameron tradition, as there are similar extended versions of T2, Aliens, The Abyss and Avatar.

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

I also watched the deleted scenes and the longer alternate ending on the Collector's Edition DVDs yesterday and I must say that I'd love to see an extended edition of Titanic with all those scenes included. The flow of the movie would probably suffer but it would be really interesting to see it that way; and again, it could be done as a branched alternate version (kinda like the DC of Alien on BD - Ridley Scott says that he actually prefers the theatrical version of Alien but he made the DC as an interesting alternate take on the movie). It would also follow in a James Cameron tradition, as there are similar extended versions of T2, Aliens, The Abyss and Avatar.

I have an extended version of the film that someone made for me using the 3 disc edition and while it is interesting to see once I can tell you that what Cameron released to theaters is the superior version, much of what was cut was needless and indulgent filler such as Jack and Lovejoy's big fight in the dining room, that one scene goes on for several minutes and drags the pacing of the sinking way down. And don't even get me started on that alternate ending, I've always stated that given Cameron's skills as a filmmaker I'm still quite shocked that scene actually made it to the shooting phase as it's patently ridiculous and is in no way an appropriate ending to the film.
Probably my favorite scene that I wish had stayed in the film was Rose going down to steerage to find Jack the morning after her suicide attempt, I like that scene.
As for the possibility of an official extended cut I have an interview with Cameron that was featured in the screenplay and he pretty much states flat out that there will never be one, that what we saw theatrically was his preferred cut.