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the universe is a soccer ball?

Discussion in 'After Hours Lounge (Off Topic)' started by Mike Wladyka, Oct 10, 2003.

  1. Mike Wladyka

    Mike Wladyka Well-Known Member

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  2. Dave Poehlman

    Dave Poehlman Well-Known Member

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  3. Josh Lowe

    Josh Lowe Well-Known Member

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    this thread will go one of two ways:

    informative discussion into things like superstring theory, quantum physics and other stimulating topics.

    or a debate of the lowest common denominator.

    i hope it's the former.
     
  4. Andrew Testa

    Andrew Testa Well-Known Member

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    Not any more or less so than any other theoretical topological spacetime model. The question is; are there any other explanations for the inconsistencies in the background radiation, and do all current physics operate in this new topology?

    [homer] ...mmmmmmm, spacetime manifolds.... [/homer]

    Andy
    EDIT: Josh, I'll try for the former, homerisms aside [​IMG]
     
  5. Mike Wladyka

    Mike Wladyka Well-Known Member

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    Josh--me too

    I haven't come across it yet, but i am wondering where the individual galaxies are? do they lie along the outside of the soccer ball? or on the inside? How does the doppler effect fit into all of this, after all scientists have been measuring the rate of expansion for years...how could this be in a spherical universe? is the giant soccer ball rotating?
     
  6. Dave Poehlman

    Dave Poehlman Well-Known Member

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    So, it's sort of like a 3 dimentional version of a Mobeus strip? A 3 dimentional sphere twisted four dimensionally and joined with itself? That would explain how one could travel in one direction and wind up at the same place. The galaxies would be within that sphere, I suppose. I don't know where the dodecahedron comes in... why couldn't be some other polyhedron?

    I wish the article had more details. Or... maybe my Asteroids theory is right and we're all just living in some video game in a bowling alley. [​IMG]
     
  7. Andrew Testa

    Andrew Testa Well-Known Member

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    Mike,

    Everything would be on the inside. The "edges" don't really exist; the transition from one side to the other wouldn't appear any different from traveling internally. So the expansion model still works, and galactic doppler shift is still valid. It's a topology that's both infinite and bounded. Meaning that while the volume of the universe could be contained within a measurable volume, Internally you can travel forever and never reach an edge. The expansion of the universe means that the container gets larger, so the distance you would have to travel before you returned to your origin would increase.

    It's an old concept, actually. What's new is that the background radiation data may actually show it exists.

    The classic 2 dimensional analogy for this is to imagine an ant on a balloon. The balloon obviously has a bounding volume, but the ant can walk forever and never reach an end to the surface. Blow more air into the balloon and it expands. Individual points on the balloon move away from each other at a constant rate, the ant sees his universe expand, and he can still never walk to the edge.

    In the case of the soccer ball model, remember that big bang theory states there is no center of the universe; it all started from the same point and from anywhere it appears to be expanding away from that point. The ball boundaries could be anywhere within that universe. If you were right on the edge or in the center of the ball, the universe would look exactly the same.

    Further experiments that would pin this down would be (as mentioned in the article) to see if any objects appear in more than one place. We can currently see some 10 billion light years away, so with a dodecahedral topology there are 6 pairs of surfaces that light from any object will pass through, to reappear on the other side. The trick would be to find some very distant object, then scan for a double of that object somewhere else in the sky, but at a much larger distance. In reality though we'd be very lucky to find such a phenomenon, since the wrap around distance could likely be farther in light years that we can see, or it could be farther in light years than the universe is old, so that the light from it hasn't even reached us yet.

    Lots of very interesting repercussions from this kind of topology.

    Andy
     
  8. ThomasC

    ThomasC Well-Known Member

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    OK, methinks I'm not going to understand this until I see a model of what they're talking about, or maybe I'll get even more confused after that. [​IMG] Does anyone know where I can see what they're talking about?
     
  9. Christ Reynolds

    Christ Reynolds Well-Known Member

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    hmm interesting. well, dare i ask what they think is outside of the boundary of the soccer ball shaped universe?
     
  10. Mike Wladyka

    Mike Wladyka Well-Known Member

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    Mike Voigt Well-Known Member

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    Christ Reynolds Well-Known Member

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    BrianW Well-Known Member

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  15. Eric_L

    Eric_L Well-Known Member

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    OF course there's a center of the universe, I just don't like to flaunt it...
     
  16. Andrew Testa

    Andrew Testa Well-Known Member

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  18. Mike Wladyka

    Mike Wladyka Well-Known Member

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