The Outlaw 950 - Confessions of a Beta Tester (1 Viewer)

[Jim Prillaman]

maybe this is a dumb ?, but does the 950 have 2 sets of 5.1 inputs to allow multi-channel SACD and DVD-a to be hooked up at the same time???

It's actually a good question -- there are a couple of units with more than one 5.1 input (Denon's 5800 and 5803 receivers are the only example that occurs to me at the moment). The 950 only has one set of 5.1 inputs.

 

[Dan Hitchman]

Rodney,

It has only one set of 5.1 analog inputs.

Dan

 

[Matthew Anderson]

First of all, thanks so much to Robert Fowkes and John Morris for letting us know about the beta test and for their excellent reviews. I should have known like everyone else that they were testers. My question is for Robert and John. I am most interested in how the unit sounds in DTS ES discrete and how good the channel separation is for dvd's encoded with this like Gladiator and The Hounting. Thanks so much for your time.

BTW I got on the waiting list right after it went out and I hope they(Outlaw) dont't try to call the first week of March because I will be in Florida for Texas Rangers spring training. GO RANGERS

 

[John Cain]

RAF and John, many thanks for all the info and John thx for the answer to my earlier questions.
I have another
I want to use two speakers to listen to 2 channel stereo, BUT I would also like to use my SVS sub.
How does this sound?? I'm assuming if I do some sort of fancy audio pass-thru that I cannot use my Subs, or can I ?
Thanks!!
-- John

 

[RAF]

Hello again gang. Sorry about my lack of participation here today (and most of tomorrow). This release from the NDA by Outlaw caught me by surprise and I have some previous commitments that are keeping me away from the computer during this "exciting" time - commitments that I could not reschedule under any circumstances. Hope you all understand.
In the meantime, John Morris has been doing a great job tackling all the questions regarding the 950. I covered the basic points in my extended write-up on my HT web site and some of the questions that have appeared here have been answered in that treatise. I'm not going to pretend that we have all the answers, but we will continue to field the questions as much as possible. If I miss answering something and if someone else doesn't take the ball and run with it, ask it again.
A few general comments and a couple of specific answers while I have a few minutes before I have to go out again.

• Remember, we are doing this by the seat of our pants, without a manual, so, unless we actually designed the unit (we didn't) we can't answer questions like "How is the 7 channel sound implemented." We can only offer real world listening opinions, which we already have. I, for one, am looking forward to a manual that I hope includes some theory of operation or, perhaps, some additional hints on how to use the 950. I have to believe that there are some "easter eggs" there. For example, while testing the 950 I discovered that on rare occasion it will AUTO sense the mode (probably due to an errant flag on a DVD at some chapter start). When I mentioned this to the Outlaws they got back to me and said, "Hold Down the Dolby Digital Button for two seconds, and when the mode menu appears press the right arrow button." Magically, the Mode went from AUTO Sense to lock on either DolbyD or DTS or whatever you wanted. In other words, there is some more control than just that offered by the regular menu choices. Like I said, I eagerly await the manual.
• As you know, the tuner that the beta testers received is being replaced in the units that ship. Therefore I for one didn't deal with it. I know that John did for a bit and he said that it seemed to lack a good high end (since fixed we're told). Thus, tuner questions are not really answerable at this point.
• Also, the remote is a temporary one as the final version is being manufactured. Therefore we can't tell you about any "goodies" it might offer (other than point you to the OEM model it is based on. But rest assured that I had no problem teaching my Pronto remote macros to control the 950.
• The answer to the "Fourth Beta Tester" puzzle (actually "Fifth") might be, "No One." Peter of Outlaw mentioned to me that he had run into some difficulty in that area and I got the impression that it fell through. But I might be mistaken. Whatever. Just don't get frustrated if this person never surfaces.
• I'm very glad that Gene Lockaby (hello, Gene!) posted here. I was aware that he is a "Lexicon Guy" and I'm glad to see that he confirms my suspicions about the 950 - it is a tremendous sounding unit regardless of the cost. In my review I mentioned (and Gene confirmed) that in no way does the 950 match the MC-12 for versatility, but where it counts - sound reproduction - it is amazingly close to a unit costing about ten times as much! That alone should open a lot of eyes. (ears!)

A few more responses (I have to leave in five minutes):

Robert, all I think Will was saying was that its unusual not to hear any negative aspects of a review. And at least he implied that it had to do with the NDA rather than anything resembling a conspiracy on the part of the beta testers. But given that the beta testers also happened to be moderators of online HT forums and potential advertising vendors, suspicions will exist and it would be good to address them anyway at some point.

LarryB,
Actually, Will clarified this point and I'm fine with it. (Hope you're reading this, Will.) However, as the others have stated, at no time did the Outlaws give any restrictions on what I could say once the NDA was lifted. I wouldn't have it any other way and people who know me would back me up on this. I owe no allegiance to any company and advertising does not influence me in any way. In fact, if you've noticed (I actually had not!) the Outlaws pulled their ads from the HTF several months ago so there is no relationship with them. This actually makes my job easier, even though it probably doesn't help the HTF bottom line. So people are entitled to their "suspicions" but I know where I'm coming from and couldn't care less about this.
Let me also state that Outlaw actually took an interesting position on the choice of at least one of the beta testers. As he noted (so it's no secret) John Morris actually returned his Outlaw 1050 for a refund when he didn't like how it performed. I find it interesting (and to their credit) that Outlaw chose to use a disatisfied customer to beta test another product. Either they are crazy or they were supremely confident in the performance of the 950.
Sorry I can't stay any longer. I'll check in later tonight to try to handle any specifics that don't get fielded by others. In the meantime I'm glad to hear that some of you have found my web site informative. To those whose direct questions I didn't address, I apologize. I hope that you got the answers you were looking for from the body of this thread.
I'll talk to you later. Like I said, my schedule was pre-arranged and I must honor some commitments. Look at it this way - I haven't turned the 950 on in almost 24 hours! The other beta testers can tell you that this takes a great deal of restraint on my part.
Take care, all.

 

[RAF]

Two more quickies:

Quote:

John,
This is related to my answer above. By using an ICBM to manage your bass you get control of the lower frequencies even when using ANALOG pass through. Actually, that's what I'm doing with my SACD which is of the 2 channel variety. I use the analog bypass inputs and the output of the 950 is fed through the ICBM where the low frequencies are redirected to the Subwoofers. Sounds great!
Gotta go.

 

[Jim Prillaman]

I believe that I read somewhere that the 950 weighs 20 lbs. Can't find where right off the bat, though.

 

[Patrick_T]

Hey,

Does anyone happen to know the final crossover slopes? Is the low pass a 24db/octave slope..and is the highpass a 12db/octave slope? I am just wondering if I'd be better off with a unit like the denon that uses the THX like crossover slopes if my speakers (m&k s125s) were designed with this crossover philosophy in mine. Thanks

 

[rodneyH]

Robert, you mentioned on your site that you simply connect a ICBM from the outputs of the 950 to the inputs of the amps, yet I am not sure that solves the problem, unless there is a way to connect the ICBM to the 950 withOUT using the 5.1 inputs, thus making it possible to connect 1 set of 5.1 inputs (SACD) to the 950 directly and another (DVD-A) to the ICBM after it is connected to the 950a dn BEFORE the amp. Does that make sense, and am I on the right track??

 

[Will]

simply connect a ICBM from the outputs of the 950 to the inputs of the amps, yet I am not sure that solves the problem

On a side note, putting the ICBM between pre/pro and receiver can have negative consequences when time alignment is used in the pre/pro to compensate for different distances from the various speakers to the listener. As I understand it, bass management processing should be done before *not after* time alignment processing. Two altnernative solutions are to place the speakers equidistant to the listener and/or turn time alignment processing off in the pre/pro. Or just live with the consequences of time alignment being done *before* bass managment is done, which may or may not be significant or noticable, to you.

 

[Will]

And Merc, I pretty much confirmed that you were an "insider" when you said that you had a reliable source that said Rotel was having problems with the noise floor on their new pre.

I don't remember reading that a specific reliable source was attributed to the statement about there being some sort of a problem with the Rotel noise floor. Merc, please correct me if I'm wrong and there is a reliable source to corroborate this.

 

[Vince Chan]

Robert, John, Gene,
Thanks for your glowing reviews of the 950. I've been one of the few people who still hung on and resisted buying the Anthem. A question for you: how do the 950's DAC sound on two channel music? I know many audio philes use the DAC's on their high end CD players but I only have a cheap Kenwood 200 disc changer and I plan on using the optical connection to connect to the 950. So I'm interested in how it sounds. Also, would you classify the overall sound of the 950 to be warm neutral or bright?
Thanks for your time!

 

[AntonS]

Compared to the price of upgrades on some processors, you could buy this, wait a couple of years, then buy the high-end Outlaw processor and give this one away. I think you'd still end up ahead.

Looks like you are right, providing that Denon is charging $800 for their 5800 upgrade.

 

[Will]

It smoked my Denon 5700 in all areas and has the latest (for now) bells and whistles

Wouldn't be surprised if it was better than the current (un-upgraded) Denon 5800 in many areas since the 5800 has been out for quite a while now, although not as long as the 5700.

 

[Jeff]

John or Robert,
How does the amp trigger work? I have two amps with 9 to 12 volt dc triggers and three cooling fans. Can it trigger all of this?
My biggest problem will be my cooling fans. My Sherwood Newcastle has switched outlets so I can use 9 volt adapters to turn on my amps and run my fans. If the Outlaws trigger is 12 volts, then I can't use it for my fans since running them at 12 volts makes them too noisey.
Outlaw would make a lot of money if they sold a seperate switcher like the old Parasound Scamp. Many amps like Rotel don't even have triggers. The Scamp was very glitchy (and I'll never use one again) but still fetches over $100 on Ebay!
Jeff

 

[RAF]

By the numbers...

Quote:

Jeff,
As I said, without the manual it's hard to say. I already have amp triggering in place with my Monster 3500 and the Denon 5700 (still used for surround amps) so I didn't change any of that. I imagine that I'll address this issue once I get more amps and ditch the Denon. Perhaps one of the other beta testers can comment on this.

 

[John Morris]

Hi Guys: Sorry it's taken me awhile to get back to many of you, but I've been out of the office for awhile as I haven't been able to rearrange my schedule either. This short notice of being set free by Outlaw, caught us all by suprise. As for the questions... Robert has already answered them, so I'll just add some comments.

would you classify the overall sound of the 950 to be warm neutral or bright?

Neutral.

Sorry, but I've gotta fly to Dallas today for a meeting with a client, so I will not be able to answer questions till late today and tonight.

 

[Kevin P]

up from a menu. It doesn't auto sense.

Is 6 speakers (6.1, with single center surround) an option, or is it only 5 (5.1) or 7 (7.1)?

I have an Outlaw 1050 with 6.1, and wonder if the same configuration would work with the 950.

KJP

 

[Jim Prillaman]

Kevin
I'm curious about that same thing, as I also have a 1050 with a single center surround speaker and am on the reservation list for a 950. From the odds and ends I've heard, I've always been under the impression that the 950 would allow you to set it up with a single center surround speaker. I'm not positive, and hopefully a beta tester will be able to confirm this for us, but I noticed in RAF's pictures that the screen where speaker setup takes place had "small/large" options for mains, center, and surrounds, but the surround rear speakers were set on RAF's as "LB/RB" (see Link Removed picture) -- which makes me think that you could also set it to "RB" or "LB" only and just hook up one of the surround back speakers.

 

[Alex Yang]

After reading the wonderful reviews from Robert, John, George and the other beta testers, I've decided to take Outlaw up on ther no risk offer (30 day money back garantee)... 950/770 combo...
Thanks guys for making this easy for me to decide, up until this weekend 2/10/2002 I was getting ready to put down some serious cash for the Denon 5803 when it ships in March...
I'm assuming the ONLY thing I'll be missing out on with the DENON is THX Ultra 2 certification, SVideo/Composite to Component pass through, Denon's Digital Link, and 2 5.1 analog pass throughs...
Is there ANYONE here on the forum who would like to convince me to reconsider the Denon 5803?

Thanks again for the superb job gentlemen may all you beta testers get your 950 for FREE!!!
-Alex