The Mariners the best baseball team??? Yeah, right! (1 Viewer)

[RAF]

Do we really need another thread taking up server resources?

Certainly, Patrick! In fact, that's why Parker upgraded our server recently. This way we have a lot more room for Cubbie fans to tell us how great they will be again next year!

BTW, once again, the Juggernaut came through for me (as I told you would happen). I look forward to a great World Series and a different opponent for a change.
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RAF
[Demented Video Dude since 1997]
[Computer Maven since 1956]
["PITA" since 1942]
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[RAF]

quote: RAF, I was going to suggest adding the word "last" to that "Team of the century" t-shirt of yours. I guess you can leave it as is for now.[/quote]
Rob,
I hope you're right. Only time will tell. Of course, since this is only the first year of the new century the Yankees have a lot of time to retain their title. Remember, they didn't get the ball rolling until after 1918 in the "last" century. We need Boston to give away some more "washed up" players to us ala Babe Ruth and Clemens.

Incidentally, my grandson, Robbie, who is 3+ years old, has never known any other champion besides the NYY. We used to kid about how long this would go on. Logically, it has to stop some time, but I'm not going to predict when. I'll leave that to the Yankee haters.
BTW, I leave my "humble" hat on the rack when I enter the After Hours Lounge. Otherwise, in other sections, it's required wear.

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RAF
[Demented Video Dude since 1997]
[Computer Maven since 1956]
["PITA" since 1942]
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[Tomoko Noguchi]

Well, my case is rested (re, rude Yankee fans). Mariner fans would have given the Yankees a much better send off had it been the other way around. It just goes to show that there is no class in the stadium. To chant out 116, over-rated to a team (as the fans did in Yankee stadium) that quite frankly did extremely well this season is a slap in the face and does not merit any comment.
And as far as the money goes, I quite rightly know that the Yankees were also in the bidding for him and would have paid millions for "just talking to him" as the Mariners did. Whereas, you suggest that paying the money for Ichiro was ridiculous and that Seattle can't complain about the money, just remember--Yankees spent $138 MILLION to get them where they are.
[Edited last by Tomoko Noguchi on October 23, 2001 at 03:51 AM]
[Edited last by Tomoko Noguchi on October 23, 2001 at 03:53 AM]

 

[Tomoko Noguchi]

Just an example of what I mean
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And I want to focus on this speaking of Yankee bleacher creature fans:
"Some are real, obnoxious people, some are real foul-mouthed people," said longtime stadium usher Michael Swann, who works the section. "Yankee management says if you say certain words and get out of hand, you have to go. But when we try to throw them out, management won't back us.
"These people won't show us their tickets. They intimidate out-of-towners with tickets into moving to seats somewhere else. They're obnoxious."
[Edited last by Tomoko Noguchi on October 23, 2001 at 03:58 AM]

 

[Patrick_S]

quote: This B.S. about the Yankees BUYING championships is just that...[/quote]
quote: We need Boston to give away some more "washed up" players to us ala Babe Ruth and Clemens.[/quote]
Since you were around at the time you should know better then to say stupid things like Boston thought Ruth was "washed up". They knew he was a valuable asset and they needed the cash in order to save the franchise, so they sold him to the Yankees. Isn't that a prime example of the Yank's buying a player?

[Edited last by Patrick_S on October 23, 2001 at 04:59 AM]

 

[Mitty]

Didn’t they also purchase Clemens or did they get him by trade?

They gave up Boomer Wells, Graeme Lloyd and Homer Busch (???) for him! For the first couple of years, that trade had looked to seriously backfire on them.
I fear this thread has gotten out of hand.
RAF, why don't you start an ***official*** world series thread? That way we can start "theorizing" about the next series instead of hitting each other over the head about the ones that just ended.
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Scary Movie Challenge: 13, 12...9, 8 7 to go!

 

[Tomoko Noguchi]

Mitty,
I don't quite see it getting out of hand.
Robert,
Let's not forget Mussina. He was bought and paid for (with millions and millions). Hernandez came from Cuba and was not a product of the Yankees system.

 

[Mitty]

Tomoko, one comment to which I was referring when I said I feared it was getting out of hand has been edited and removed, the poster obviously thinking better of it.
I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Richard Kim]

Tomoko, having actually been seated in the bleachers at Yankee Stadium, I can vouch for the fact that the bleacher creatures are the most rude, obnoxious, foul-mouthed fans in baseball. Heaven forbid you wear an opposing teams cap there (speaking from personal experience).

 

[Marvin]

I also hate the Yankees and their store-bought team. I hope Schilling and the Unit pitch 6 of the seven games and stick it to Steinbrenner.

So how did Arizona happen to acquire Schilling and Johnson?
Was Randy Johnson - or ANY D-Back - a prospect from their farm system?
Not that there's anything wrong with signing free agents or trading for expensive players. All owners can afford to do this; some just choose not to.

 

[Joseph S]

millions of people attend, and they behave without any major incident or people and property being hurt. The rest of the world could learn a thing or two from the behavior of the NY fan.
Speaking of behavior, it's obvious you have never been to a game in Boston. You think NY fans are rough? Listen to the words coming out of the mouths of those fans

You must be an MLB umpire with those blinders on. There have been incidents at both the parades and following the championships.
As for the Boston fans, you're nuts. I was at the '86 WS games and '99 ALCS and the Mets and Yankees fans may have been harassed, but they were not physically threatened. That cannot be said for my visit to the Bronx. Neither is that the case for opposing players such as the Red Sox bullpen in '99 where tents had to be erected after the batteries being throw at them all game 1. You're kidding. Most of these Yankee fans are nothing but bandwagon jumpers. Look at the attendance in '94 and prior. The place was a house of no shows while they played the role of Mets fans.
Now that the Giants and Jets aren't playing well who are they rooting for??

 

[Jack Gilvey]

You guys make it all the more fun. Keep the fodder coming.
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[Patrick_S]

quote: Not that there's anything wrong with signing free agents or trading for expensive players. All owners can afford to do this; some just choose not to.[/quote]
Marvin you basically posted the same misinformation in the previous Mariners Yanks thread. If you believe that ALL owners could spend freely, I must ask, how is Fantasyland?
In your previous post you talked about how many teams are owned by Billionaires. Why don't you try reading a copy of Fortune or Forbes? That way you would learn that this just isn't the case. While all are probably millionaires even that doesn't ensure that all of them will have excess money to spend after they buy the team.
Just like any business, baseball teams can't deficit spend indefinitely and continue to exist.
Another misconception that you seem to have is that the corporations that own baseball teams can spend money like it is water. Do you have any idea how a publicly traded corporation works? Corporations are answerable to share holds and the executives just can’t spend money because they want to. If a division of the corporation is losing money those in charge are going to lose their job.
While I would agree that if you have the money why not spend it, your contention that ALL owners can spend money equally if they wanted to is incorrect.
[Edited last by Patrick_S on October 23, 2001 at 11:35 AM]

 

[Trey Fletcher]

Marvin,
Sorry, but you obviously don't know shit about the Dbacks.
Matt Williams: Acquired via trade with Cleveland for Travis Fryman (expansion draft) who is the Tribe's current 3rd baseman.
Tony Womack: Acquired via trade with Pittsburgh for farm players.
Reggie Sanders: After sitting out most of 1999 and 2000 with injury, the Dbacks picked him up because no one else would take a chance on him.
Craig Counsell: Cut by the Dodgers and signed to a minor league contract by the Dbacks. Called up from AAA in June.
Luis Gonzalez: The Dbacks picked up this no name left fielder (at the time) through a trade with the Tigers for Karim Garcia (expansion draft). Joe Garagiola Jr. (GM) later arrested for Grand Theft.
Curt Schilling: Acquired via trade with Phillies for Omar Daal (expansion draft), Vicente Padilla (farm system), and Travis Lee (free agent).
Mark Grace and Steve Finley: both thought to be "over the hill," and released by the Cubs and Padres respectively. Grace's quote: "The Diamondbacks threw me a life preserver when no one else would." Were they free agents? Sure. But these weren't highly sought after, high priced players ala' Mussina.
Danny Bautitsta, David Delluci, and Erubiel Durazo are all key cogs to the Dbacks machine that have also come via the farm system/scouting.
Matt Mantei (injured): Acquired via trade with the Marlins for Brad Penny (farm system).
Byung Kim: Farm/Scouting
Brian Anderson: Expansion Draft
Miguel Batista: Farm System
The only guy you can point to as a high priced free agent is Randy Johnson. And still, many people thought the Dbacks were nuts to give a big money 4 year deal to a 35 year old power pitcher. 1000 K's later...
In any event, the Dbacks are no where near all the other teams who load up each year on high priced free agents ala' the Yankees, Rockies, Dodgers, etc. As for that crap about Soriano, Jeter, etc, all coming from the farm system... Guess what, the Montreal Expos have developed tons of players in their farm system (Larry Walker, Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Vladimir Guerrero). The difference? The Yankees have the $$$ to resign all of their players who come up when most (Montreal, Oakland, etc.) teams see their players leave for greener pastures (see: money) just as they are coming into their prime. Hell, the Yankees spend money on players just so other teams can't pick them up!
As for all of the Yankee fans who revel in people hating their team, wake up. It' not Paul Oneill, or Derek Jeter that they're hating. Rather it's the arrogant, rude, and obnoxious Yankee fans that everyone is tired of. When I go down the Yankees roster, I can't find one player whom I hate (well, El Duque's lies have turne me off to him). But just watching/listening to last nights game, or logging on to this forum makes me despise the Yankees like no other. If you want people to respect what your team is doing (not that I really think you care), then stop with all of the boorish behavior. Oh, and don't pat yourselves on the back for not lighting your city on fire. The people who do such things are obviously idiots and should be thrown in jail. But congratulating yourself because you are better than an idiot is rather silly.
And now that I've kicked the hornets nest and pissed off every mod in this forum, I will sign off for now.
P.S. Please don't take any of these comments as personal attacks. They are not meant that way, but rather as a comment on the path the Dbacks took to the Series, and why so many people dislike the Yanks. TF

 

[Samuel Des]

In my experience, the kids were the worst, believe it or not.
Wrigley Field is a stark contrast in my experience. Many times, I've seen opposing team fans treated very nicely. Little nice jabs, usually fun banter.
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Best, Sam

 

[Marvin]

Trey,
Yes, sorry, my knowledge of the D-Backs is somewhat lacking. However, wasn't it the case that they basically rode Johnson and Schilling to win their playoffs - I don't recall a whole lot of hitting in either series - and plan on doing the same in the series? And yes, they traded for Schilling - as the Yankees traded for Clemens, O'Neill, Brosius, Martinez etc. But, forgive me if I'm wrong, wasn't the Schilling trade (as was the Clemens trade) somewhat forced due to impending free agency and/or salary?
In any case, getting back to my original point, I don't believe the Yankees are any more "store bought" than the D-Backs.
quote: Do you have any idea how a publicly traded corporation works? Corporations are answerable to share holds and the executives just can’t spend money because they want to. If a division of the corporation is losing money those in charge are going to lose their job.[/quote]
Well, I guess I don't consider owning a baseball team equivalent to your average corporation and I'd assume there are some non-monetary reasons for owners to buy teams. Do cities have parades for corporations that have a profitable quarter?
[Edited last by Marvin on October 23, 2001 at 12:36 PM]

 

[Samuel Des]

The thing that really surprised me at the time was the Wells deal. I originally thought that was a bad move.
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Best, Sam

 

[Patrick_S]

Well, I guess I don't consider owning a baseball team equivalent to your average corporation and I'd assume there are some non-monetary reasons for owners to buy teams. Do cities have parades for corporations that have a profitable quarter?

As an answer to what I posted this reply makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

 

[RAF]

Wow! What a reaction. Interesting and typical when people don't have anything good to say.
I find it very revealing that when people can't knock a particular team, no matter how much they hate them, that they turn their venom in other directions rather than the team themselves.
The fact is undisputable that the Yankees are the best team in the American League once again and they proved themselves on the field. I also believe that they will win the world series but, as usual, I'll let this play out on the field instead of here in After Hours.
Once again we hear from people who "hate" the Yankees, not because of what they are, but because what their own teams are not, or some other ridiculous reasons. To talk about the fans at Yankee Stadium as though they are some sort of animals is just that - talk. I have been to well over 20 stadiums in my lifetime and I can tell you, first hand, that there is no baseball experience to compare to a game at Yankee Stadium. Yes, some other venues are magnificent to watch a ball game in (I particularly enjoyed Camden Yards, Jacobs Field and Coors Stadium) but give me Yankee Stadium for the overall effect any day of the year. Great baseball and knowledgeable fans. In fact, I prefer Wrigley Field and some of the other classic fields for overall ambience to some of the modern parks, but that's another story altogether.
I love it when people quote news reports of rowdy happenings in NY, be it at the stadium or at the parades. I have personally been a witness to three of the recent celebrations in NY and can say, without reservation, that the crowds were far more behaved than those in other cities. When you have 3 or 4 million people in one place you are bound to get a few incidents, but per capita the incidents in NY were far, far fewer than those in LA, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Miami, Tucson, etc. etc. I could go on and on. I was in Tucson when the Wildcats won the NCAA title a few years ago and the people acted like animals. Many friends of mine personally have witnessed riots at "celebrations" in Chicago, Detroit and Los Angeles and they tell me the same thing.
These towns, to paraphrase Jack Nickolson "can't handle success." New Yorkers are a class act as far as sports, both in knowledge of the game and behavior are concerned. Always have been, always will be.
And as to those "chants" the other night at Yankee Stadium, it's too bad that some people don't understand the difference between celebration and taunting and they throw it in NYers faces.
It became quite evident by the eighth inning that the Mariners were history.

"No Game Six! No Game Six!"

Everyone by now has seen Lou Pinella guaranteeing that the team would return to Seattle to play game six. Don't get me wrong. I love Lou Pinella (after all he was a Yankee star and manager!) and I fully understand what he was trying to do with his statements. However, if you live by the sword you die by the sword. The chant was simply a response to his verbal boasting. For some of you to chastize Yankee fans for this chant and others (which were thunderous, and great fun!) is to totally miss the boat. Lou showed himself to be a true gentleman in the post game interviews when he acknowledged who the better team was.
This was not a "Yankees Suck!" cheer (a favorite of Boston) or references to Scott Brosius' father dying, or other crude remarks that I've witnessed from so-called "fans" at other stadiums. This was Yankee Stadium celebrating... again.
The Yankees simply have the best team and the best talent and it is not merely a question of money. True, success breeds success, and it's no accident that they have a lot of money to play with. But so do a lot, and I mean A LOT of other teams. What they lack is an organization with the knowledge and foresight to spend their money wisely. Look at Boston. Look at L.A. And look at Texas. And the owners of the Cubbies have more money than God but what has that done for Wrigley Park? I really hope to see a Yankees/Cubs World Series one of these days.
Throwing money away doesn't prove a thing. And not having baseball minds is a major problem. Look at Boston. The GM there has destroyed the team. When I was referring to "washed up" for Clemens and Babe Ruth it was tongue in cheek (obviously.) But remember it was this organization that let both of these hall of famers go when they hadn't even reached their prime. I sincerely hope that the Boston GM stays. He's one of the Yankees' greatest assets.

And let's not forget Gene (Stick) Michaels who provides the scouting information for the playoffs. He is, in my estimation, the true MVP of the Yankees. He wasn't a great manager, but he is a hall of fame scout. You think it was an accident that so many players who faced the Yankees in the post season suddenly slumped? Hogwash. The Yankees know how to exploit a player's weaknesses due to talent, preparation and execution. Ichiro didn't suddenly turn "cold" - he met his match. This happens over and over and over again - much too often to be a coincidence.
I would suggest to those of you who spew your misguided venom to channel your efforts into more productive endeavors rather than let it eat at you. Your "hatred" is a serious character flaw and it will consume you. I, and other Yankee fans, sit back each year and watch as a new group of fans of the latest "hotshot" team suddenly declare that they are the greatest of all time and then proceed to berate the reigning champions. That is, until it comes down to "Showtime" where they usually wilt and then make all sorts of excuses for the failures of their teams by blaming others, the fans, the phases of the moon, Warner Home Video, etc. They refuse to accept the fact that their team just didn't measure up.
Again.
And again.
And again!
Let's face it. The title of this thread is spot on. And some people just can't handle the truth, or they handle it by coming up with all sorts of excuses instead of admitting that the Yankees are a cut above the competition.
We now move on to the World Series. Once again, all Yankee haters will start wearing D'Back shirts as if rooting for Arizona will somehow atone for the failure of their teams to measure up. How riduculous is that? If Arizona should pull an upset it will be a credit to the Diamondbacks, and not any victory for the also-rans of the American League.
I know you don't like to hear it, Seattle, but you were NOT the best team in the American League this year (or any other year!). In fact, this year you were not even the second best team. You only made it to the championship round because you faced the Yankees second, not first. Otherwise the Oakland A's would have lasted for the ALCS! And trying to shift the focus to the fans or some other ridiculous argument will never, ever change that.
And you can take that to the bank!!!
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RAF
[Demented Video Dude since 1997]
[Computer Maven since 1956]
["PITA" since 1942]
Link Removed

 

[Samuel Des]

Robert -- I agree that most fans in NYC are gracious; saying this does not take away from fans from other cities. I am a Bulls fan who was treated with no less respect in the sports bar scene during the Jordan and Pippen era.
But I wanted to mention sports radio in NYC and here in Chicago. I prefer the FAN to the SCORE, though I will spare all of you the reasons why.

FAN announcers like Chris Russo, Mike Francesa, (Mikkkke and the Mad Dog, Sports Radio 66 -- W-F-A-N!) Ian ("Ion") Eagle, and the Sweater, Russ Salzburg... those guys are great. I get a little Curt Menefee with Bears games. He doesn't always call the game right, but I like him just the same. I have very fond memories of "doze guys."
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Best, Sam
[Edited last by Samuel Des on October 23, 2001 at 02:16 PM]