The Lucy Show: The Official Fourth Season ... Arrives on April 26th, 2011! (1 Viewer)

[JohnMor]

Have to say, as bad as many of the scripts are this season, I was very pleasantly surprised to find three GREAT eps that are among the best of the whole series and as good as anything on I Love Lucy: "Lucy Discovers Wayne Newton," "Lucy Dates Dean Martin" and "Lucy, the Gun Moll." All beautifully written and played. Had seen them all before, but it's been years and wasn't sure if they'd hold up to my memories of them. Thrilled to find they exceeded them. While not quite on the same level, also loved "Lucy in the Music Business" and "Lucy and the Countess Have a Horse Guest." Still humming the theme from "Wingding." LOL. Almost makes up for the hideousness of "Lucy Helps Danny Thomas" and "Lucy the Superwoman," which of course, started life as a script for Gilligan's Island and should have remained so. Whether or not one even accepts the absurdity that a stuck adrenal gland wouldn't kill the sufferer with a heart attack and/or stroke, there is ZERO plot to the ep. Just a parade of (very lame) special effects and no story. Sigh. Of course, in my opinion, the most absurd script Lucy ever did (and even worse than anything on Here's Lucy) is still to come: "Lucy and Jack Benny's Account." Oh, the horror.

 

[Powell&Pressburger]

Originally Posted by Jay*W

Season 4 is $14.99 at Target this week!

I picked up my copy today after work they had 3 copies on the shelf! Great price.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

Originally Posted by JohnMor

... "Lucy the Superwoman," which of course, started life as a script for Gilligan's Island and should have remained so.

I'm not sure if you're being facetious. Was it really originally written for Gilligan's Island? How did you find that out?

 

[JohnMor]

Originally Posted by Joe Lugoff





I'm not sure if you're being facetious. Was it really originally written for Gilligan's Island? How did you find that out?

No, I'm serious. It's either in "The Lucy Book" or in the production notes on the dvds. I read it this weekend. Elroy Schwartz wrote it for Gilligan's Island then felt it would be "ideal" for Lucy.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

LOL. That "idea" is even too dumb for Gilligan's Island.


It's just further proof that Lucy and her advisers had terrible taste in scripts.

 

[JohnMor]

Originally Posted by Joe Lugoff

LOL. That "idea" is even too dumb for Gilligan's Island.


It's just further proof that Lucy and her advisers had terrible taste in scripts.

I just confirmed that it's in the production notes on the dvds. They said Lucy even thanked Elroy for the funny script.


I was listening to Lucy's radio interview with Steve Allen a week or so ago (I think it's on the Lucy Calls the President dvd) and she told him she admired how he could think funny, because she knew she didn't. She could bring business to life, but she couldn't think funny. And it shows. She really needed a Desi to be the slave driver on the script front and send it back if things weren't fully motivated, because Milt Josefsberg had no taste or common sense about her brand of comedy. He just kept doing what he'd done for Hope and Benny. And the saddest part is Desi WARNED her they'd do this to her when he left: he told her not to let them fob off mediocre scripts on her just because she could make magic with some bit of it. It's fine to be more of a sketch show than I Love Lucy, but make sure the sketches are funny and worthy of her (like "Lucy, the Gun Moll") and not painful, groan inducing rehashes (like "Lucy Helps Danny Thomas.")

 

[Joe Lugoff]

I used to think Milt Josefsberg was the problem, but after HERE'S LUCY he went to ALL IN THE FAMILY, and his scripts there were great. He also became producer of the show, and won the Emmy for Best Comedy Series in 1978.


Even the scripts Madelyn and Bob wrote for HERE'S LUCY weren't funny.


So the LUCY problem has to be blamed on someone else, and I think it has to be on her clueless husband Gary Morton (Executive Producer) and her clueless cousin Cleo Smith (Producer) and clueless Lucille Ball herself for having relatives run the show in the first place. She didn't seem to realize that things worked out so well on I LOVE LUCY not just because Desi Arnaz was her husband, but he happened to be something of a genius, too.


One of the most irritating things about watching THE LUCY SHOW and HERE'S LUCY is hearing Gary Morton's obnoxious horse laugh over the most juvenile, unfunny things. I think the whole story is told right there.

 

[JohnMor]

Originally Posted by Joe Lugoff

I used to think Milt Josefsberg was the problem, but after HERE'S LUCY he went to ALL IN THE FAMILY, and his scripts there were great. He also became producer of the show, and won the Emmy for Best Comedy Series in 1978.


Even the scripts Madelyn and Bob wrote for HERE'S LUCY weren't funny.


So the LUCY problem has to be blamed on someone else, and I think it has to be on her clueless husband Gary Morton (Executive Producer) and her clueless cousin Cleo Smith (Producer) and clueless Lucille Ball herself for having relatives run the show in the first place. She didn't seem to realize that things worked out so well on I LOVE LUCY not just because Desi Arnaz was her husband, but he happened to be something of a genius, too.


One of the most irritating things about watching THE LUCY SHOW and HERE'S LUCY is hearing Gary Morton's obnoxious horse laugh over the most juvenile, unfunny things. I think the whole story is told right there.

You're right, of course, but I also feel AITF took a big quality dive in the latter years with Archie and even Edith becoming more of a cartoon than they had been (although not solely Josefsberg's fault.) As for the scripts by Madelyn and Bob, they weren't that funny on TLS either, and got worse after Desi left supervising. At least after Jess left ILL the quality stayed high (from all accounts due to Desi's supervision of the scripts).


Ultimately, the buck stops with Lucy. She was in charge and she had the final approval of all people and scripts. She must have felt that every one was good, or at least "good enough." And of course the ratings at the time and the Emmys just reinforced her view. The ratings went UP when Vivian left and Lucy won two back-to-back Emmys. Who was going to tell her she was wrong to do what she was doing?

 

[Joe Lugoff]

Actually -- and I pointed this out before somewhere on this Forum -- the ranking of THE LUCY SHOW went up after Vivian Vance left (peaking at No. 2 its final season) -- but the actual rating didn't go up. In fact, the highest actual rating was THE LUCY SHOW's first season.


Lucille Ball is quoted somewhere in "The Lucy Book" as saying, at some point (and I'm paraphrasing), "You'd think for what we pay these writers they could come up with better scripts."


Why she couldn't get better scripts will probably have to remain a mystery.

 

[JohnMor]

No, the rating went up. The share did not. But that was true of nearly all series on the air, due to the increase in the number of sets.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

I don't think I made myself clear, which is typical of me.


I'm taking the ratings and rankings from the book "The Complete Directory to Prime Time Network TV Shows."


"The Lucy Show"

1st Season, 1962-63: Rating, 29.8; 5th place

2nd Season, 1963-64: Rating, 28.1; 6th place

3rd Season, 1964-65: Rating, 26.6; 8th place

4th Season, 1965-66: Rating, 27.7; 3rd place

5th Season, 1966-67: Rating, 26.2, 4th place

6th Season, 1967-68: Rating, 27.0, 2d place


Going by the actual ratings, the first two seasons (significantly, with Vivian Vance and the full team of original writers) were the highest rated, i.e., got the biggest audience. The rating is more significant than the ranking. (For instance, today's #1 show, going strictly by its rating, wouldn't even have made the Top 30 in those days.)


Another way of saying it is that a greater percentage of the potential audience watched the first two seasons of "The Lucy Show" than the last four seasons. (The ratings of the first two seasons were about 10% higher than the other seasons.)


"Here's Lucy"'s ratings were significantly lower than "The Lucy Show"'s: 23.8, 23.9, 26.1 (helped by the huge rating of the Burton-Taylor episode), 23.7, 21.9 and under 20 for its final season (I don't have the figure, because it fell out of the Top 25.)

 

[JohnMor]

Originally Posted by Joe Lugoff

I don't think I made myself clear, which is typical of me.


I'm taking the ratings and rankings from the book "The Complete Directory to Prime Time Network TV Shows."


"The Lucy Show"

1st Season, 1962-63: Rating, 29.8; 5th place

2nd Season, 1963-64: Rating, 28.1; 6th place

3rd Season, 1964-65: Rating, 26.6; 8th place

4th Season, 1965-66: Rating, 27.7; 3rd place

5th Season, 1966-67: Rating, 26.2, 4th place

6th Season, 1967-68: Rating, 27.0, 2d place


Going by the actual ratings, the first two seasons (significantly, with Vivian Vance and the full team of original writers) were the highest rated, i.e., got the biggest audience. The rating is more significant than the ranking. (For instance, today's #1 show, going strictly by its rating, wouldn't even have made the Top 30 in those days.)


Another way of saying it is that a greater percentage of the potential audience watched the first two seasons of "The Lucy Show" than the last four seasons. (The ratings of the first two seasons were about 10% higher than the other seasons.)


"Here's Lucy"'s ratings were significantly lower than "The Lucy Show"'s: 23.8, 23.9, 26.1 (helped by the huge rating of the Burton-Taylor episode), 23.7, 21.9 and under 20 for its final season (I don't have the figure, because it fell out of the Top 25.)

No, Joe, you were clear, I was just tired and had it backward. Thanks for the post... it also reminded me that I haven't seen my copy of that book in years.

 

[Garysb]

Originally Posted by JohnMor





You're right, of course, but I also feel AITF took a big quality dive in the latter years with Archie and even Edith becoming more of a cartoon than they had been (although not solely Josefsberg's fault.) As for the scripts by Madelyn and Bob, they weren't that funny on TLS either, and got worse after Desi left supervising. At least after Jess left ILL the quality stayed high (from all accounts due to Desi's supervision of the scripts).


Ultimately, the buck stops with Lucy. She was in charge and she had the final approval of all people and scripts. She must have felt that every one was good, or at least "good enough." And of course the ratings at the time and the Emmys just reinforced her view. The ratings went UP when Vivian left and Lucy won two back-to-back Emmys. Who was going to tell her she was wrong to do what she was doing?

I think in the documentary " Finding Lucy" on PBS someone said of Here's Lucy , she liked work for the sake of working and not to make a quality show. She was interested in making a family show long after tastes had changed to something more modern. Shows such as All In The Family. Mary Tyler Moore and Mash for example were all in production during the later years of Here's Lucy. Also of course Laugh In and the Smother's Brothers were in production during the earlier years of Here's Lucy.

 

[JoeDoakes]

Originally Posted by JohnMor

Have to say, as bad as many of the scripts are this season, I was very pleasantly surprised to find three GREAT eps that are among the best of the whole series and as good as anything on I Love Lucy: "Lucy Discovers Wayne Newton," "Lucy Dates Dean Martin" and "Lucy, the Gun Moll." All beautifully written and played. Had seen them all before, but it's been years and wasn't sure if they'd hold up to my memories of them. Thrilled to find they exceeded them. While not quite on the same level, also loved "Lucy in the Music Business" and "Lucy and the Countess Have a Horse Guest." Still humming the theme from "Wingding." LOL. Almost makes up for the hideousness of "Lucy Helps Danny Thomas" and "Lucy the Superwoman," which of course, started life as a script for Gilligan's Island and should have remained so. Whether or not one even accepts the absurdity that a stuck adrenal gland wouldn't kill the sufferer with a heart attack and/or stroke, there is ZERO plot to the ep. Just a parade of (very lame) special effects and no story. Sigh. Of course, in my opinion, the most absurd script Lucy ever did (and even worse than anything on Here's Lucy) is still to come: "Lucy and Jack Benny's Account." Oh, the horror.

Actually, "Lucy and Jack Benny's Account" is my favorite episode of the post-Vance years. It was my first exposure to Jack Benny, and it really stimulated my imagination when I was a child. However, I do think that it is less like a sitcom and more like an episode of Jack Benny's old radio show.

 

[Rob_Ray]

Originally Posted by JoeDoakes





Actually, "Lucy and Jack Benny's Account" is my favorite episode of the post-Vance years. It was my first exposure to Jack Benny, and it really stimulated my imagination when I was a child. However, I do think that it is less like a sitcom and more like an episode of Jack Benny's old radio show.

It *is* an episode of Jack Benny's old radio show and the whole routine of Jack Benny having a specially designed bank vault was well-known and fondly remembered by audiences as one of the all-time Benny classics. The idea was even reworked as part of the Warner Bros. cartoon "The Mouse that Jack Built."


"Is the war over, Mr. Benny?"

"Yes, it is."

"Gee! I wonder what they'll do with the Kaiser?"

 

[JohnMor]

As a sketch, it's fine. As an episode of a sitcom, I think it's the dumbest plot Ball ever did, dumber than enything on Here's Lucy. No bank is going to let a secretary spend millions of dollars to build a vault to MAYBE land an account. Even dumber when you consider that if Benny keeps his money in a vault, then the bank isn't investing it and making any money off it, so they're doing this for free as a favor to Jack Benny?? Nonsensical. Plus, add to that the ridiculous expense and logistics of keeping the gorillas and Native Americans on call 24/7 since one never knows when someone will try to break in. Plus the upkeep of the piranhas, etc. And the coup de grace of having Benny and Lucy disappear into the quicksand, presumably to suffocate to death... Dear God! As a sketch, it's fine, but doesn't work as an episode of a sitcom. The only reason "Lucy and the Monsters" ranks slightly higher in my book, is that at least the majority of that travesty is presented as a dream.


I'm suprised after this that they didn't do an ep where Lucy sneaks into a space capsule to leave homemade cookies for the astronauts and accidentally launches herself to the moon. That's not that much more far fetched.

 

[Rob_Ray]

Originally Posted by JohnMor

As a sketch, it's fine. As an episode of a sitcom, I think it's the dumbest plot Ball ever did, dumber than enything on Here's Lucy. No bank is going to let a secretary spend millions of dollars to build a vault to MAYBE land an account. Even dumber when you consider that if Benny keeps his money in a vault, then the bank isn't investing it and making any money off it, so they're doing this for free as a favor to Jack Benny?? Nonsensical. Plus, add to that the ridiculous expense and logistics of keeping the gorillas and Native Americans on call 24/7 since one never knows when someone will try to break in. Plus the upkeep of the piranhas, etc. And the coup de grace of having Benny and Lucy disappear into the quicksand, presumably to suffocate to death... Dear God! As a sketch, it's fine, but doesn't work as an episode of a sitcom. The only reason "Lucy and the Monsters" ranks slightly higher in my book, is that at least the majority of that travesty is presented as a dream.


I'm suprised after this that they didn't do an ep where Lucy sneaks into a space capsule to leave homemade cookies for the astronauts and accidentally launches herself to the moon. That's not that much more far fetched.

And this is the crux of the whole "what-went-wrong-with-Lucy" thread that Joe L. and Theodore J. Mooney trade back-and-forths about. By this time, The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy were no longer traditional sitcoms. It's sketch comedy using the same sketch-comedy characters week-in and week-out. Staying with Jack Benny for a moment, how many times did Lucy Carter meet Jack Benny for the first time? Lucy and Harry were no more believable than Mrs. Wiggins and Mr. Tudball.


But, as sketch comedy, it's an all-time classic of the genre, so it gets a pass from me. It's just having fun with the entire Benny persona. And, remember, perhaps no comedian was as dearly loved in mid-twentieth century America as Jack Benny. He made a career out depicting himself as the ultimate tightwad when everyone knew that he was one of the most generous men in Hollywood.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

Originally Posted by JohnMor /forum/thread/306855/the-lucy-show-...n-arrives-on-april-26th-2011/180#post_3808168

 

[Rob_Ray]

Originally Posted by Joe Lugoff

I've wondered this for quite some time now. You obviously despise Lucy's post-1964 work, yet you can't stop talking about it. But I'm with you -- I can recite I Love Lucy chapter and verse, having seen every episode far too many times to count. But I'm revisiting TLS and HL for the first time in decades with these DVDs. They can't compare with ILL of course and many episodes are as bad as you say, but there's still a part of me that can watch Lucille Ball in anything.

 

[JohnMor]

Well, for one not every episode is this stupid. There is still plenty to love in these series. Secondly, it's one thing to be a little outrageous and push the realism envelope, but quite another to be something that could not possibly happen. The bank thing could NOT happen, as it would not be up to Lucy to have the vault built. Neither would Lucy be drafted and put in basic training. It would not get that far. However, someone COULD wallpaper over the windows and doors, no matter how unlikely that is. It's possible. Someone COULD remove the chassis from a TV set and climb inside. Someone COULD scale Richard Widmark's wall and sneak into his house. Someone COULD try to hide a racehorse on their apartment patio. Someone COULD be hired to dress as a pickle in a TV commercial. Jack Benny COULD rent rooms in his Palm Springs house (especially if he's so cheap.) Lucy Carter COULD have learned to play the violin when she was younger (and she was hardly a virtuoso, just better than he was). None of those, however UNLIKELY, are completely out of the realm of the possible. The bread could never come out of the oven in a long loaf like that, but that is merely the visual punchline to the to the very plausable joke that someone could put too much yeast in the dough. The punchline can be outrageous, as long as the joke is initially grounded. My criticism of the Benny vault episode isn't that I'm looking for realism in a Lucy series, but that the outrageous comedy has to be grounded in the possible before it takes off to dizzying heights, otherwise it goes from funny to stupid.


One thing I'm finding revisiting TLS and HL again, is that HL, while not very funny on the whole, is far more grounded in the plausable than TLS. While I can think of plenty of bad HL eps, I can't think of any as far fetched as Lucy getting drafted, or developing super human strength or building a million-dollar bank vault on spec.

I guess that was a long winded way of saying that improbable is okay in my book, but impossible isn't.