The Future of PERRY MASON (Season 6 & beyond) (1 Viewer)

[Jack P]

Popped in a couple random episodes from S8 V1 tonight. I was caught off-guard by the one that has Perry going to Switzerland in which none of the other regulars appear, and where there's no courtroom scene whatsoever! It's obvious that the writers were getting tired and I guess wanted to do something off-beat that time out. In "The Case Of The Blonde Bonanza" I'd sure like to know whose dumb idea it was to have a natural beauty in Mary Ann Mobley wear that awful blonde wig!

 

[stevelecher]

Jack P, I too disliked that Switzerland episode you mention. It seems they tried more and more near the end of the series to minimize the courtroom action with Perry solving more cases out of the courtroom. Sometimes Perry doesn't hit the courtroom until 40 minutes of the episode is over. Not nitpicking. It's a great series and even at the end there are good episodes; just fewer of them.

 

[HunterMan]

Does anyone agree with me that the series started fading in S7, and kept going down in S8 and really dropped in 9? After I have the first 8 seasons, I won't care that much about getting season 9, other than to complete the set. Comments? Thanks.

Sorry, "Steve" but I love it all! Now, there are certain episodes from each season that I like better than others. I actually don't like episodes where they go out of the country either. I will admit that towards the end of the show, they were sometimes re-hashing some episode plots from the first seasons under different titles. I didn't care for this either. But, overall it's all still "Perry Mason"! I love all 9 seasons and look forward to completing the show when season 9 is finally released! :tu:

 

[Steve...O]

One's view of the later seasons is a matter of personal preference and I'm also interested in others' opinions since they will vary widely. Over the years my appreciation of the later seasons has grown. When I first started watching PM as a pre-teen in the 70s I never liked it when an "Andy" episode came on because Tragg was such a good character. Now I appreciate the good job Wesley Lau did in replacing someone who really couldn't be replaced. Richard Anderson did a good job in S9. Did anyone notice that his earlier PM appearance was without his toupee? All in all, count me fan of the later seasons even if they're a "7" or "8" whereas the earlier ones are a "10". The next to last episode (with Gary Collins and Cloris Leachman) is one of the best the series ever did in my opinion and one could always find a good stable of supporting actors in each episode. The very bizarre "Midnight" episode in S8 seems to be a sequel to the prior episode with Mike Connors which is the only episode that Burr never appeared in at all. One of my Mason books references that Burr was unhappy at this time (over scripts, etc.) and suggests that Connors may have been a tryout for a potential replacement. I also noticed that a couple of episodes prior that Burr didn't look all that good in some shots. His weight gain was really noticable during this time so perhaps the stress was getting to him. In any event episodes soon returned to be "normal" and Mike Connors went on to his own landmark series. The later TV movies don't hold up as well for me. Burr and Barbara Hale do their normal great jobs but the irony is that these movies are incredibly dated now whereas the original series has a timeless quality about them. I've read that Burr did these primarily for the money (so he could support his favorite charities) and to give employment to various friends, etc. He had wanted to upgrade the stories, etc. but Dean Hargrove (the producer) didn't want to invest more money in them since they were making money and getting high ratings as it was. It is said that Burr did the Ironside reunion movie against Doctor's recommendations because he didn't want to adversely impact the other cast/crew and cost them work if he backed out. As an aside, I know someone who met Bill Katt recently at a signing and Bill had nothing but good things to say about Burr and he noted that his mom and Burr were close friends for 50 years at the time of his death. It's nice to hear positive stories about Hollywood from time to time when we live in an era that only seems to produce dysfunctional stars. As an aside, deepdiscount.com has lowered the S8 V2 preorder price to $29.99. That's $20 less than Amazon. Many prior releases are $9.xx.

 

[stevelecher]

Steve O, thanks for your post. I enjoyed it. I agree with you about the movies and about Wesley Lau. There are good episodes in every season. The series is timeless, isn't it?

 

[Steve...O]

Speaking of Mr. Lau, I've never seen any reason listed as to why he left Mason? Anyone have any insight? Also, he passed away at a fairly young age in the early 1980s but nothing on his imdb bio or the internet lists a cause of death. I did find a blog post from someone lamenting the same thing (a desire to know more about this interesting actor).

 

[HunterMan]

One's view of the later seasons is a matter of personal preference and I'm also interested in others' opinions since they will vary widely. Over the years my appreciation of the later seasons has grown.   When I first started watching PM as a pre-teen in the 70s I never liked it when an "Andy" episode came on because Tragg was such a good character.   Now I appreciate the good job Wesley Lau did in replacing someone who really couldn't be replaced.    Richard Anderson did a good job in S9.  Did anyone notice that his earlier PM appearance was without his toupee?  All in all, count me fan of the later seasons even if they're a "7" or "8" whereas the earlier ones are a "10".   The next to last episode (with Gary Collins and  Cloris Leachman) is one of the best the series ever did in my opinion and one could always find a good stable of supporting actors in each episode. The very bizarre "Midnight" episode in S8 seems to be a sequel to the prior episode with Mike Connors which is the only episode that Burr never appeared in at all.  One of my Mason books references that Burr was unhappy at this time (over scripts, etc.)  and suggests that Connors may have been a tryout for a potential replacement.  I also noticed that a couple of episodes prior that Burr didn't look all that good in some shots.  His weight gain was really noticable during this time so perhaps the stress was getting to him.   In any event episodes soon returned to be "normal" and Mike Connors went on to his own landmark series. The later TV movies don't hold up as well for me.  Burr and Barbara Hale do their normal great jobs but the irony is that these movies are incredibly dated now whereas the original series has a timeless quality about them.   I've read that Burr did these primarily for the money (so he could support his favorite charities) and to give employment to various friends, etc.  He had wanted to upgrade the stories, etc. but Dean Hargrove (the producer) didn't want to invest more money in them since they were making money and getting high ratings as it was.   It is said that Burr did the Ironside reunion movie against Doctor's recommendations because he didn't want to adversely impact the other cast/crew and cost them work if he backed out.  As an aside, I know someone who met Bill Katt recently at a signing and Bill had nothing but good things to say about Burr and he noted that his mom and Burr were close friends for 50 years at the time of his death.   It's nice to hear positive stories about Hollywood from time to time when we live in an era that only seems to produce dysfunctional stars. As an aside, deepdiscount.com has lowered the S8 V2 preorder price to $29.99.  That's $20 less than Amazon.   Many prior releases are $9.xx.  

I agree that my appreciation for the later seasons of the series has grown over the years too. I loved Tragg and Ray Collins was superb in that role! But, his long-time smoking caught with him before the show was even done. Therefore Wesley Lau came on as Andy Anderson. I actually like Andy as the show goes on...at first I didn't care for him either but eventually I really did like him. I especially liked his replacement (don't know why he left?) Richard Anderson as Lt. Steve Drumm. Burr always dealt with poor health and had some operations and I think even a bout with cancer while the show was still on. Towards the end he was tired of the insane hours and work it took to make the show. He was acutally ready to be done by season 7 or so. However, the professional and caring man he was he did it to the very end. I've come to appreciate all seasons of the show...even though there are episodes in each that I really like and others I don't really care for. As for the series being "timeless" and the reunion movies dated...well I think in modern society today anything from the 50's and 60's is now looked on as "timeless". We can never go back and make shows like that again because we no longer really have imaginations and creativity. Everything has to be so "realistic", depressing, "dark", or raunchy. However, although the cars or clothing styles may be dated...I think the TV Movies have held up strong too over the years...reruns of those are shown just as much as the series. Also, with the movies I think they really tried to be more realistic (as much as they could) with court procedings and procedures, even compared to the series. Burr actually liked doing the TV Movies more than the series (as he's said in past interviews) because they could get more in-depth in a 2hr timeslot than just a 1hr one. They could focus more on characters and plotlines and really create an intriguing who-done-it, compared to the series. Barbara Hale and Burr were best friends for over 50 years, and she was by his side almost until the very end. Him worrying about his friends and crew to do the "Ironside" reunion instead of resting like doctors recommended was just like him...he was one of a kind and will always be sorely missed!! I love both the series and the TV Movies...there are series episodes I really like, and others I don't. There are TV Movies I really like, and others I don't. That's the way it is with any show and/or its reunions. But, overall I love it all :tu: ...and hope that all the TV Movies are eventually released to DVD too...but who knows if that will happen or not?

Speaking of Mr. Lau, I've never seen any reason listed as to why he left Mason? Anyone have any insight? Also, he passed away at a fairly young age in the early 1980s but nothing on his imdb bio or the internet lists a cause of death. I did find a blog post from someone lamenting the same thing (a desire to know more about this interesting actor).

Yeah, I've never been able to find a cause of death for Wesley Lau at all?? He was only 63 when he died in 1984. I also don't know why he left "PM" before the last season? I've tried finding all this out in years past, but have not really found anything. It's odd that even IMDB or Wikipedia do not list cause of death.

 

[stevelecher]

I too have heard Burr say how much more in depth they could get with their two hour movies but, to me, the truth is most of those stories seemed padded and loaded up with car chases and gun fights and little or no more substance than the original show had. When I watch the original show, I marvel at times how much storytelling they got done in a 50 minute show, introducing us to half a dozen characters and doing a story that had depth and cleverness. That's why we're collecting this wonderful show 50 years later.

 

[HunterMan]

I too have heard Burr say how much more in depth they could get with their two hour movies but, to me, the truth is most of those stories seemed padded and loaded up with car chases and gun fights and little or no more substance than the original show had. When I watch the original show, I marvel at times how much storytelling they got done in a 50 minute show, introducing us to half a dozen characters and doing a story that had depth and cleverness. That's why we're collecting this wonderful show 50 years later.

I agree that it was amazing how much in-depth with a story they could get in an hour's timeslot back in "PM's" day! The show was also something that had never been done on TV before! It was awesome...especially for its time! But, to be honest the series actually includes a lot more gun battles and/or car chases than the TV Movies did. The movies might have a car chase or explosion in them somewhere (usually showing the murder of the victim...or when Paul Jr/Ken was chasing a suspect) but that was it. The series did the same thing with Paul Drake when he was after suspects--and there were a lot more shoot-outs with Tragg or Andy Anderson with the killers in the episodes than ever were in the movies. By the time the 80's came around you wanted to include more "surprises" and suspense/action sequences than was allowed in the 50's and 60's. The court stuff would always be there...that was a given. They would have done a lot more in-depth stuff with the original series if they'd been allowed to...but sensors were still very strict at that time. When the TV Movies came around, with a 2hr time slot and no where near as strict of sensorship in place, even by 1985 you could include a lot more detail to create an intriguing storyline. In all honesty...both the series and the TV Movies were done in almost the exact same style and/or "formula". The movies were just able to include a lot more details, suspects, and twists/turns because they had the time and ability. I love both the series and the TV Movies...both were superb for their times and are still remembered, enjoyed, and sought after today! I love having it all--and especially watching it all!

 

[stevelecher]

You've got me confused a bit HunterMan, I remember very few, overall, gun fights or car chases with Paul Drake, and especially Tragg or Andy. In my mind, the movies had a lot more of that activity. Not to say Paul never got knocked out or chased anyone, but it was a pretty small percentage of the 270+ episodes.

 

[silverking]

I agree with Steve in the last post. I certainly haven't watched all 9 seasons of Mason but have probably seen about 150 of them & can't recall any gun battles or car chases.Maybe they are in the ones I haven't seen.

 

[Berkshires]

I have to agree with Steve and Chris. I've seen about 230 of the 271 episodes, multiple times, and the only such sequences I can recall are one shootout (The Case Of The Moth Eaten Mink), two car chases (Restless Redhead and Black Eyed Blonde), and three explosions (Irate Inventor, Wintry Wife, and Hateful Hero). Maybe I've missed a couple, but there's no way the series contained "a lot more gun battles and/or car chases than the TV Movies did." Maybe Hunterman is thinking of Mannix?

 

[Berkshires]

And for you trivia buffs, actress Whitney Blake portrayed both the Restless Redhead and the Black Eyed Blonde. I guess she wasn't available when they were filming Borrowed Brunette.

 

[HunterMan]

You've got me confused a bit HunterMan, I remember very few, overall, gun fights or car chases with Paul Drake, and especially Tragg or Andy. In my mind, the movies had a lot more of that activity. Not to say Paul never got knocked out or chased anyone, but it was a pretty small percentage of the 270+ episodes.

Well, I don't mean to "confuse" anyone...but I've seen every single episode and TV Movie of "PM" more than once over the years. I never said every single episode had tons of car chases or gun battles...nor does any one of the TV Movies have tons of car chases or gun battles. What I said was overall the series did include more of the so-called "action" sequences--from houses exploding, car explosions, car chases, and shoot-outs with Tragg or Anderson usually at the end with a killer. The TV movies had some of this too...but they were more realistic and intricately done. But, not every episode always had all that...nor did every TV Movie always have all that. There were also very few actual "shoot-outs" in the TV Movies--even with the police. Someone might get murdered by being shot or there was an attempted murder with a gun, but there were very few (if really any) all-out gun battles. There were not that many all-out gun battles in the series either...but there were a few along the way--and there were episodes where Tragg or Anderson would end up cornering or trapping a discovered killer (with Perry and Paul's help of course) in an office or building somewhere and they'd try one last effort to escape by pulling out the gun...whereas Tragg or Anderson and officers had to shoot. There were not that many episodes that had that...but there were a few. I don't believe that ever happened in one of the TV Movies. Also, both the series and TV Movies had the Paul Drakes and/or Ken Malansky, at times, being punched, knocked out, or someone even trying to kill them! Not every episode, nor every TV Movie, focused totally on that...but the action or suspense moments for both were usually centered around whoever was Perry's leg-man at the time. Don't misunderstand me...I'm not trying to say that the TV Movies are better than the series--"PM" series is one of the greatest all-time shows ever! I'm just saying that the TV Movies were really not that much different than the series...other than they had more time and realistic ways to create a good suspenseful storyline. You have to watch each with the mindset of what time period each was made in. You have to watch the series reminding yourself it was made in the 50's and 60's...and it was TV. You can't watch the series with even an 80's mindset and expect to truly enjoy it. You also have to expect that something made in the 80's is not going to be the same as something made 30 years before in the 50's...so if you watch a TV Movie with a series episode mindset, you're not going to find that. Things evolve and change. I personally enjoy each "series"...original and TV Movies. They complement each other "awesomely". But, that last part is just my opinion.

 

[stevelecher]

I've seen most of the 9 seasons and its's been awhile since I've seen any of the movies other than "Returns." What I remember from the movies is they generally had a scene where Paul Jr is nosing around a warehouse, then we see a crook's feet tip-toeing around, then Paul would be aware he wasn't alone and there would be cat and mouse darting around dark corners. The crook would sometimes shoot at Paul and there might be a chase. Sometimes Paul would chase and the crook would get away or sometimes Paul would get knocked out and then he would be back with Perry and Della explaining that he didn't see who it was, I didn't get a look at him, or something to that effect. It was a 10 - 15 minute time waster that just padded the story to fill out the time slot. To me, the movies did not have the magic the TV series had. There were quite a few times where Tragg, Andy, and sometimes Burger would go with Perry at the end of a TV episode to trap the real killer but it was very few episodes when the killer, after admitting Perry had him, didn't just surrender. The cops didn't have to shoot very often. There was an episode in season 9 when the real killer was going to shoot Perry and Steve appeared out of nowhere to arrest the crook, but that was a very rare exception when Perry was threatened at all.

 

[HunterMan]

I've seen most of the 9 seasons and its's been awhile since I've seen any of the movies other than "Returns." What I remember from the movies is they generally had a scene where Paul Jr is nosing around a warehouse, then we see a crook's feet tip-toeing around, then Paul would be aware he wasn't alone and there would be cat and mouse darting around dark corners. The crook would sometimes shoot at Paul and there might be a chase. Sometimes Paul would chase and the crook would get away or sometimes Paul would get knocked out and then he would be back with Perry and Della explaining that he didn't see who it was, I didn't get a look at him, or something to that effect. It was a 10 - 15 minute time waster that just padded the story to fill out the time slot. To me, the movies did not have the magic the TV series had. There were quite a few times where Tragg, Andy, and sometimes Burger would go with Perry at the end of a TV episode to trap the real killer but it was very few episodes when the killer, after admitting Perry had him, didn't just surrender. The cops didn't have to shoot very often. There was an episode in season 9 when the real killer was going to shoot Perry and Steve appeared out of nowhere to arrest the crook, but that was a very rare exception when Perry was threatened at all.

It sounds like you're referring to only one movie, with Paul not seeing who it was and the feet tip-toeing around...and that was "Perry Mason Returns"--where he was hanging from the hotel balcony ledge, only beeing able to see the tips of cowboy boots walking around the room. That was the best reunion movie, I thought, and had awesome suspense and twists/turns! Most of the other movies had Paul a little more "polished" with his detective skills again, and most I truly enjoyed as well. The series was basically the same...Paul would go question or looking for suspects and "miss" them, get beat up, knocked out, or not get the "goods" right away. Eventually he would get what was needed. I'm sorry but I don't agree that this was time-wasting...this was some of the suspense, action, or twists/turns included in the plot--for both the series and movies. Let's face it...if there was no suspense, or murder seen, or no action, etc...and all that was shown was court room proceedings for things we never got to see..."Perry Mason" would have been the most boring show ever, and would have never lasted. There were a few times where Tragg and/or Andy had to shoot the killers at the end of the episodes, and there were a few episodes that included a police shoot-out with the defendant or suspect--not always at the end, and not having them necessarily get killed. It did not happen all that often...but it did happen a couple/few times. Again, I don't believe that ever happened in any of the movies. There really was no police gun-play in the movies...only sometimes in the series. Most of any gun-use in the movies was by the killer, and it was usually only once...possibly twice depending on what the storyline was. I understand some people didn't like the movies as much because they weren't just like the series...but it was 20-30 years later. I wouldn't want to watch a brand new reunion movie of a 50's TV show, in the 80's, and have it be exactly like an old episode from the 50's. If they had done that, the first movie would have "tanked" and it would have stopped right there. The movies needed to include the same "formula" yes...but be updated to modern day, at that time the 80's and early 90's. Times change, people change, and the TV Movies needed to show that. Some people love just the series, some love the TV Movies more, others like me love both! To each his or her own.

 

[stevelecher]

I watched a lot of the movies when they first aired and not since. What I wrote is what my impressions were 20 years ago, that they were dragged out and padded. You disagree. Fine. You think they were suspenseful. I've watched the series a lot these last half dozen years and it doesn't resemble the series you describe with shoot outs and Tragg and Andy having to shoot the guilty party. For me, the best episodes are the ones where Perry gets the confession in the courtroom, especially if he used some clever trick to fool the real killer. This series didn't need, nor have time for, shoot outs and car chases. I hope they put out the movies sometime n the future for those who want them. When I want to watch Perry Mason, I will generally return to the first four or five seasons of the series.

 

[Berkshires]

Originally Posted by HunterMan
There were a few times where Tragg and/or Andy had to shoot the killers at the end of the episodes

Sorry Drew, but with the exception of the pilot episode, Moth Eaten Mink, I can't think of any. Maybe you could provide us with a few of the episode titles.

Originally Posted by HunterMan
There were not that many all-out gun battles in the series either...but there were a few along the way--and there were episodes where Tragg or Anderson would end up cornering or trapping a discovered killer (with Perry and Paul's help of course) in an office or building somewhere and they'd try one last effort to escape by pulling out the gun...whereas Tragg or Anderson and officers had to shoot. There were not that many episodes that had that...but there were a few. I don't believe that ever happened in one of the TV Movies.

I can think of four episodes that share a common scenario at the end: Cautious Coquette, Gilded Lily, Bedeviled Doctor and Lover's Leap. Mason lures the killer into a police trap, using one of the people involved in the case as a decoy. The killer makes an incriminating statement, pulls out a gun and threatens the decoy, then the police come in with Mason and make the arrest. But in every case, the arrest is made with neither the cops nor the killer firing a single shot.
Is it possible you're misremembering these episodes as "shoot-outs"?

Originally Posted by stevelecher
I've seen most of the 9 seasons and its's been awhile since I've seen any of the movies other than "Returns." What I remember from the movies is they generally had a scene where Paul Jr is nosing around a warehouse, then we see a crook's feet tip-toeing around, then Paul would be aware he wasn't alone and there would be cat and mouse darting around dark corners. The crook would sometimes shoot at Paul and there might be a chase. Sometimes Paul would chase and the crook would get away or sometimes Paul would get knocked out and then he would be back with Perry and Della explaining that he didn't see who it was, I didn't get a look at him, or something to that effect. It was a 10 - 15 minute time waster that just padded the story to fill out the time slot. To me, the movies did not have the magic the TV series had.

I feel the same way. William Hopper, William Talman, Ray Collins and Wesley Lau brought a depth of character to their roles that I just didn't see in their 80s replacements. Throw in all the padding that was used to fill out the overlong time slot, and the 80s series was just a pale imitation of the opriginal.

 

[Berkshires]

Originally Posted by stevelecher
Does anyone agree with me that the series started fading in S7, and kept going down in S8 and really dropped in 9? After I have the first 8 seasons, I won't care that much about getting season 9, other than to complete the set. Comments? Thanks.

Been meaning to reply to this post. My opinion is quite different. Seasons 1 & 2 were always my favorites, with quite a few standout episodes like Baited Hook, Terrified Typist, Howling Dog, Empty Tin, Lost Last Act, Fancy Figures, and others.
I found the middle seasons to be less interesting, though still enjoyable. I especially liked episodes such as Paul Drake's Dilemma and atmospheric outings like Absent Artist and Double Entry Mind. But there were also a few that I felt were bland. This was also the period when there were a few shows that had very convoluted plots/storylines that simply didn't play fair with the audience. As opposed to something like Lost Last Act, where they virtually hung a neon "Guilty" sign on the murderer almost from the very beginning, but the story and the guest stars were so good, and the ending so satisfying, that there could be no objections.
Can't speak for season 9, but seasons 7 and 8 have been extremely enjoyable for this film noir fan. They really began to amp up the atmospherics, using lighting, blocking, shot composition, even sound design in some episodes, to enhance the mystery/noir feel of the show. I get the sense that seasons 7 and 8 had more night scenes than all the previous seasons combined. I wonder if they were inspired by their visit to the Bradbury Building for Double Entry Mind in season 6, where they used a lot of imaginative camera angles, lighting tricks, and sound design to create one of the most memorable scenes in the entire series -- and then managed to mirror the final shot of that scene with an equally artistic "companion" shot to begin the following scene. (Watching the dvd is nice because you don't have a commercial to interrupt the flow between the scenes.)
The cars in these late seasons weren't as interesting as the ones in the early years, with the exception of Perry's Lincoln and a few Buicks that nicely prefigured the more streamlined designs of the late 60s and early 70s, but most of the women's hairstyles and fashions were much more attractive in the later seasons than in the earliest ones. (Thanks, Vidal!)
But really, my criticisms of the middle years are minor. I'd still rather watch an early 60s Perry Mason show than even the best episode of 90% of all the series that have ever been made. Just putting this out there for anybody else who'd like to extend the conversation with their own views.

 

[HunterMan]

I watched a lot of the movies when they first aired and not since. What I wrote is what my impressions were 20 years ago, that they were dragged out and padded. You disagree. Fine. You think they were suspenseful. I've watched the series a lot these last half dozen years and it doesn't resemble the series you describe with shoot outs and Tragg and Andy having to shoot the guilty party. For me, the best episodes are the ones where Perry gets the confession in the courtroom, especially if he used some clever trick to fool the real killer. This series didn't need, nor have time for, shoot outs and car chases. I hope they put out the movies sometime n the future for those who want them. When I want to watch Perry Mason, I will generally return to the first four or five seasons of the series.

Again, I did not say that tons of episodes included tons of action sequences. But, they were there..here and there throughout the series' run. Again, the TV Movies were basically the same...the movies were just more detailed and updated. No one episode or no one TV Movie included that much action, car chases or shoot-outs.. There were sequences of action yes...but nothing "overwhelming" in any of it. It was still Perry Mason (Raymond Burr) and Della Street (Barbara Hale)...I'm not going to dislike some of it just because it was 1987 instead of 1957. I also liked both Paul Drakes and how they were portrayed. Ken was okay (liked Paul Jr better) and I grew to like him as well. There is no way that only some court room scenes could carry a show. We needed to see who was murdered, needed to see who the suspects were, needed some suspense, and needed the courtroom scenes to usually bring out the killer. We needed it all--otherwise we wouldn't have cared what the court stuff was about, and it would have been nothing but one giant yawn! :td: I've stated what I've stated...and I stand by it. I get it...you only like a few of the first seasons of the series and hate the rest, including the TV Movies. (Ironically the first few seasons of the show I think included more so-called "action" than some of the rest of the series.) I love it all. Nothing I or you say is going to change either of our minds. So, you can go watch the first four seasons of the series...and I'll enjoy all of it!