The Final Season of Buffy Announced (1 Viewer)

[Dave Mack]

Maybe it's just us but myself, my sisters and my buds all thought the Buffy/Spike relationship was far more interesting than the Buffy/Angel one ever was. The first year or so was creepy on a bordering on pedophelia thing and was very simple once Angel becoming Angelus was established IMHO.
Also I think Marsters is a FAR superior actor than Boreanaz. I love Angel as much as the next fan, but anytime they do any sort of flashback, what could be cool is just utterly ruined by David's use of the worst Irish accent heard since the Lucky Charms elf. You'd think after all those years he would get better at it but it was just as bad in ANGEL S5. And I think that the performances given by Gellar and Marsters during S6 was some of the best acting in the whole series. So I would MUCH rather watch S6 than S1 or S2... But that's just me. I identify much more with the struggles of the scoobies once they hit the adult world than I do with the High School years. I like them and think they were very well done, but for me I became more interested after s4...

But what do I know......???


D

 

[Dan Rudolph]

I liked the Willow magic storyline at first. THe idea there seemed to be that Willow's problem was she was using magic to fix things instead of dealing with problems and that her power had far exceeded her judgement. Then it turned into magic=drugs, which isn't really the same thing. This was largely fixed in the beginning on season 7, though.

 

[Ryan_Guah]

See, I'm not here to debate which season is better, or my reasons for thinking so. I loved Season 6, and that's good enough for me. If you don't agree, that's fine, I'm open to different opinions. Just don't give me the impression that I'm "wrong" for liking Season 6 better than Season 4, 1 and 7.

Dave, I agree with you. I can't see David Boreanez playing anyone else other than Angel. He may have been perfect for that part, I agree with Joss on that, but can he do comedy? Probably not. I can't wait to see one of his new movies, because I really don't think he can play anyone other than Angel, believeably.

 

[Jaime_Weinman]

That's debatable, but for me the problem with Buffy/Spike was that it took up too damn much time. The romances on Buffy were, in my opinion, usually the weakest part of the show; the Buffy/Angel stuff was the weakest part of season 3, Willow and Tara were boring and Willow/Kennedy more boring still; Xander and Anya's relationship took up way too much of what little screen time those two characters got. It's like, around season 5, the producers started to define each character by who her or she was or wasn't sleeping with. And that's just not interesting to me. The core of Buffy was not the romance stuff, but the friends, the core four, Buffy/Xander/Willow/Giles. But after the season 4 finale, the show got too concerned with characters outside that core, and spent far too little time on the friendships that anchored the show for the first four seasons. And the overemphasis on Spike was part of that. I didn't give a crap about Spike in season 7, and I never, ever gave a crap about who Buffy would "end up with"; I wanted to know what was going to happen with Buffy, Xander, Willow and Giles. Instead, in the finale, we got acres and acres of Spike, lots of Willow/Kennedy and even Faith/Principal Wood, and one measly scene with the core four characters talking to each other.

The only season where I liked the romance element was season 2. That's because Angel went evil, which allowed for storylines about what it's like to get dumped after you sleep with someone (getting betrayed and dumped is far more interesting than mooning around about true love and stuff), and because the Xander/Cordelia relationship was funny rather than sentimental (ah, for the early seasons when Xander was a major character). Also they were still suggesting a love triangle between Buffy/Xander/Angel, which was the original intention (for whatever reason, they dumped the idea that Xander would become a serious contender for Buffy's affections, even though Sarah Michelle Gellar reportedly wanted Buffy and Xander to get together), and which gave some extra edge to the otherwise dull Buffy/Angel lovefests.

 

[Mikel_Cooperman]

Beating each other up and having sex all season was all they did and that wasn't even very good.

No body is wrong for liking Season 6 or 7 but a majority of people think it was weak compared to the other seasons. They didnt have the Joss touch. Even writers, in interviews, say they didnt reach their full potential.

 

[Robert Ringwald]

I agree that far too much time was spent on "Who will Buffy end up with?" types of storylines. It wasn't what the show was about.

Reminds me of how Friends used to be a little funny, until they turned it into a lame triangle with every single episode revolving around which characters would fall in love next. The show was called "FRIENDS" for a reason.

Same with Buffy. The scene where Buffy and Xander reconnect before Warren shoots her is the last scene I can think of where those 2 characters share anything. Every other part of the series after that DID ignore the central core of the group, and lost it's way doing so.

 

[Dave Mack]

There was far more going on re: the Buffy/Spike thing than just beating each other up and having sex IMHO. The shame that this brought on Buffy was tremendous culmiinating with the revelation from Spike to all that sleeping with him was "good enough for Buffy..." after Xander came down on Anya for the same thing. And then with Spike finally attempting to rape her. Interesting that in the "Fear and Trembling in Sunnydale" Buffy book written by philosophers, S6 features very, very proninently moreso than most all other seasons.
We had 5 years or so, with the exception of 1/2 of S4 of the scoobies more or less working like a well organized unit. That was fine and all, but as I said b4, unless they had shown REAL balls and ended with S5, they HAD to try some new things and I dig S6 and S7 for that. The whole point of S6 was "Life is the big bad..." and I agree. Life is much scarier than some demony thing at least to me. I can identify much more watching unpaid bills, unemployment, some nerdy misogynist with a gun than "The Mayor" who becomes a snake any day of the week. But that's just me. And I dig that the characters are not the same anymore. I was VERY different at 22 than I was at 16.
I'm not saying that S6 or S7 are better. I just find them (especially 6...) more interesting to ME. At least at this time in my life. I had a breakup with a fiancee last year and several relatives pass away so I get MUCH more out of watching the end song montage "Goodbye To You" at the end of Tabula Rasa than anything in S1-S4. The end of The Gift or the whole of the Body come close too....

It's fun to pop in the early shows but they don't hold the same weight for me is all...

I wasn;t thrilled with S6 the first time around actually, but watching them back to back on disc made me really dig them. That's all I was initially suggesting for people for S7. Maybe you'll like it a bit better is all...

Just my 2 cents.... but what do I know...?

 

[Jaime_Weinman]

My problem with that theme is that it's a silly departure from the point of the early seasons. The point was always, right from the beginning, that everyday life is "the big bad." The monsters were always metaphors for the everyday problems young people face. Buffy and friends can kill the monsters, but the bigger challenge is learning to deal with the problems. Season 6 tried to de-emphasize the monsters and emphasize the "real life problems" -- but in doing so, they made the show less unique, less interesting, and (IMO) less relevant to real life, because the show had the most to say about real-life problems when it came up with a strong monster to represent those problems.

Still, as I said, my main problem with seasons 6 and 7 is not that they tried to do something different, but that they did it with such bad writing ("axe not gonna cut it"). If all the season 6 episodes had been as well-executed as the musical episode, that's a different story...

 

[Dave Mack]

I hear ya, I just disagree. I think the writing and execution in S6 was fine. S7 sometimes... And I think the best eps. in S5-S7 SMOKE the best eps. in S1-S4 (RESTLESS and HUSH being exceptions.) Eps. like Tabula Rasa are brilliant and Normal Again ingenious and ballsy. And I love that Dark Willow considered her alter ego to be a loser. ALOT better than the Dawson's Creek with Vampires that S3 was. Substitute Dawson/Joey for Buffy/Angel.... Ooooh, they're soulmates but they just CAN'T get it together!!! And I just rewatched the whole shebang from S1-S7 with my sis recently and for every brilliant ep in the 1st 2 seasons there are some god awful ones... The teacher LITERALLY being a preying Mantis...? The Wolf-pack being a wolf pack? And some thought the magic as an addiction theme was heavy-handed... These were hardly metaphors or subtle... TED being a robot. "I'm not wired that way..."

And I still think that the nerds were the best. I think quite a few people didn't like them because they hit so close to home. My friend's wife commented to me and my friend that they were basically us and we cracked up and nodded. "darth Rosenberg..." etc...

I like angel quite a bit but for me his character never really got that interesting until he left and got his own show. THEN I dug him. On Buffy he was a little lost pedophilic puppy...

Once again, just my opinion which I'm entitled to..

 

[Eddy-C]

Have you ever watched Angel the series? DB's greatest acting strength is probably his comedic timing. That and playing "eevil". I always thought he was better at doing those 2 things than playing Buffy's tortured boyfriend.

 

[Matt Thompson]

Angelus, in my mind, is easily the most interesting and fascinating character in all of the Buffyverse. Quite a bit of that is Boreanaz's charisma, and he's shown some brilliant comedic timing on episodes of Angel.

When he's evil, he's like Spike, just not heavy-handed and annoying at times.

 

[Matt Stone]

Definitely, and he plays up the sadism with the best of them. I think he could play some great villains.

 

[Chris Roberts]

OMWF was not a good example of what the show should have done imo. Its got Xander completely breaking character to cast magic and being responsible for the deaths of innocent people with no reprecussions. The audience doesn't learn anything it didn't already know and all the characters learn stuff you knew they had to eventually anyways. Half the cast can't sing or dance very well either. The only thing this episode does right is try to add the Buffy-esque comedy back into the show with witty dialogue/lyrics. I like the episode, but its far from being the best of the season. Just the most unique because its a musical.

 

[Jaime_Weinman]

Tabula Rasa is a good example of the bad writing in season 6. It starts with a good premise, but is so badly structured that the plot is basically over by the end of the third act and most of the fourth act is filler; the fight scenes are shoddily directed and edited; the dialogue is flat. Any of the weak episodes from the first season are better because they have great dialogue (courtesy of Joss Whedon rewriting every script himself) and excellent direction (the use of atmosphere, camer angles, shadows, etc).

And "Ted" is one of the best episodes in the series, a perfect combination of humor, horror and character development (for Buffy).

 

[Citizen87645]

I think I laughed the most when Angel would feel insecure about his appearance. I'm not sure how someone could say he can't do comedy. He does physical comedy pretty well too (though maybe not as well as Denisof).

 

[Dave Mack]

Well it's just silly to continue this. I state my opinions here. SAY that they are my opininons which I'm entitled to and others I know share said opinions and they just get thrown back at me and contradicted in what appears to be an absolute end-all, know it all declarative way.
If you hate S6 and S7 so much, fine. Don't watch them but why are you here in this thread? Just to say, "Hey these were lame?" There is a Buffytatsic thread from awhile back. You can go and rant in there. I just tried to put my 2 cents in to say that I thought these seasons played much better the 2nd time around and maybe people will dig them on disc that weren't thrilled with them while broadcast. But everything I say which is in my opinion gets contradicted as if I'm wrong to feel this way.

Sheesh....

 

[EricCr]

Dave, just wanted to say that I agree with you that season 6 and 7 are both much more enjoyable the second time around. I thought both seasons had some great episodes, Normal Again being one I really enjoyed. I did not start watching the show till the 6th season having written it off as a "girl show" but happened to accidently tape the first episode of season 6 and ended up loving it. I have to agree with you that all of the early seasons had some sub par episodes just like the later ones, this being a fact that many of the die-hard fans seem to want to forget. Any time someone dares to criticize episodes from the first couple of seasons someone will jump all over them for having the nerve to not like something done by JW. I enjoyed every season of Buffy, some more than others and if you take the show as a whole it was one heck of a ride. I can't wait to complete my collection with season 7 and just wish the people who hated the UPN years would stop feeling the need to thread crap whenever they are talked about. I am not attacking any one person so please don't take it personally, I just have noticed a trend any time these seasons are discussed.

 

[EricCr]

double post sorry

 

[Matt Thompson]

The early years definitely featured the worst episodes. However, I felt in some cases (namely Season 2), they featured some of the best arcs. In my mind, it's simply a cast of the best of Buffy being brilliant, and the worst being pretty damn good.

 

[Matt Stone]

As I said before, I think both seasons 6 and 7 are good television...they just aren't my favorite seasons of Buffy.

BTW, I too found S6 more enjoying the second time around. It's got a lot of great episoes, but I'm still not too keen on S7.

I hope my posts aren't being construed as thread-farts. I do tend to focus on the bad when it somes to S6 and S7, but I'm not trying to change anyone's minds.