The Eternal Angelriffic Thread (Merged) (1 Viewer)

[Malcolm R]

The way FOX is shedding shows, maybe they'd pick it up to fill the supernatural void left by "The X-Files."

 

[Andrew Beacom]

Cordy certainly got savaged in the hair department while in Mexico.

I didn't really care for the last episode. I can buy that Gunn would have sold his soul for a truck to fight Vampires with but it still was weak. I enjoyed the finale the most. More laughs than I have had out of Buffy all year. I loved Angels "a 3" line in the card game.

We all agree it was a filler episode. The interesting development was Fred's speech to Wes. I might forgive Angel as a father racked by grief who wanted Wes to be under no illusions on his opinion, but Fred was out of line.

Lorne said that Wes had done the best he could with the information he had. Unfortunately Fred doesn't agree. With the knowledge Wes had a group discussion was going to change nothing apart from the huge risk of Angel finding out. I think Fred is pissed because she was left out of the loop. She figures that she is the equal of Wes and he should have told her.

Had I been Wes I don't think I would have told her either. She has only been re-integrated into Society a short time after the trauma of Pylea and coming home. She doesn't suddenly jump to head of the confidant queue. There could be some interesting conflict ahead for Fred and Wes.

I think Wes is strong enough to carry on alone but can Angel Investigations be as effective without him?

I was way disappointed that Wes had no one to turn to upon his release. I thought Lorne could have been a choice. Although the logical choice, Cordy, hasn't even visited him.

I'll let the Angel rage at Wes slide for now as IMO a poor scene. But obviously Angel has forgotten about Ms Calender. If Giles had reacted like Angel then Buffy could easily be dead by now.

 

[Phil Florian]

I like the question posed by Larry...do Vampire's have free will. I would like to think they do, just like humans. While some of humanity has chosen not to eat the food they are predisposed to eat (meat and all) but a lot of them still do. Even with anthropomorphized (is that a word?) animals on television (talking pigs, cows, chickens, etc.) many (like me) still have no problem downing a pork chop, steak or buffalo wings. Vamps have the slight problem of not having a soul, though, and that pesky demon interior that creeps up. Angel proved that having a soul doesn't make you good (remember his "fall" last season? even when he had a soul) but it does give you the choice. Spike has a "soul" thrust upon him mechanically and it has allowed him the opportunity to develop outside of the thirst and hunt, but the true test will be when the chip is gone (if it already hasn't fizzled, which I think it has and that is why he can hit Buffy, but that is for another thread).

I like the whole destiny vs. fate thing that Joss and crew have tackled in both series. Angel has been in his share of prophecy driven activities as has Buffy and both have shown that fate is only what you choose to believe in it (especially since we know that "fate" can be re-written!).

Angel, more than BtVS has shown that "demons" aren't evil just because they come from other dimensions. They are just different so we can get evil ones, good ones, or in most cases, ambivalent (like humanity). Totally cool.

Last thing on the choice front, though...the urge or need to kill humans to eat goes beyond typical hunger that humans feel. While I love a good steak (and even crave them from time to time) I am not an addict. Joss hasn't dealt with this directly (that I can remember) but has repeatedly stated that the taste of human blood is like a shot and a beer to an alcoholic...the first taste can lead to a full blown binge. In the Buffyverse, vamps are addicts who have embraced their addictions vs. finding alternates (pig blood, etc.).

Phil

 

[LarryDavenport]

Thanks Andrew. That's what I've been tring to say all along. Angel has been forgiven SOOOOOO many times that I hope that he comes to his senses (next season maybe).

I suspect Connor is going to wind up like King Arthur's kid in Excalibur and be an evil little f*ck.

 

[Andrew Beacom]

I suspect Connor is going to wind up like King Arthur's kid in Excalibur and be an evil little f*ck.

Connors return as a young man/teen who has a soul but behaves and thinks like Angelus would be interesting. Then "the father will kill the son" might actually come to pass.

I would also agree that Angel would be in danger should next year be the last for Buffy. In this context Angel S4 would need to be a strong year or risk being dropped once Buffy was gone. At the moment I think this is unlikely to happen but its still a possibility.

 

[Quentin]

Cordy is a drop-dead gorgeous babe...but her head is just too big for so little hair.

 

[Robert Ringwald]

I think Jeff meant that once UPN loses Buffy they're going to want to have something to get some ratings. And Angel might be a good choice, sure it only makes a little over 3 million viewers an episode, but it's more than Roswell, Wolf Lake, and a few of their other ones they picked up.

BTW, I was under the impression that Buffy was doing rather well in the ratings.

How were they before? This year they seem to be averaging like 4 million an episode, which was what I thought standard for Buffy usually.

 

[PhilipG]

Grr...Arg, I hate these filler eps! Let's get back to the Wesley storyline. I don't believe Angel's attack on him was a feint / double bluff, but there's no reason why Wesley can't use that incident to double-bluff the lawyers at W&H... Could be very interesting.

 

[AndrewD]

"BTW, I was under the impression that Buffy was doing rather well in the ratings. "

Buffy on UPN has maintained steady ratings versus last season's run on WB with both households and the coveted 18-34 demographic. Though I'm sure UPN would have liked it to do better, they can't be too upset with its performance.

Andrew

 

[Jason Quillen]

I thought "The Price" was a good episode, much better then last weeks sub par one anyway. I liked the inside joke Cordelia made about it snowing in Southern CA once (This was in Buffy S3, the episode was "Amends" if memory serves). I'm not sure what to think about Cordys power (I'm not really sure what it is) and I hope in these final episodes we get a little more Wes. If was also good to finally see a little more of the Hyperion - we spend most of our time in the Lobby and various bedrooms, but we finally got to see the basement and the southern wing. I thought Connors entrance was a little...over the top? I really didnt like it, but it was only a few seconds long so I'll reserve judgment for next week. Though that creature he killed as he came through the portal was horribly CGI-ish.
I also have problems with the way they're playing Gavin - seems like hes just there so Lilah can get info shes not supposed to know. It feels like they're trying to make Gavin an 'Underdog Lindsay', but its just not working out. It seems like hes got some new 'project' every time we see him - last time it was Cameras in the Hotel, then he disappeared, now hes inside info boy?? Nah, I say cut him lose, hes not working.
I think theres a chance Lilah will go after Wes though - I'm not sure how to pull it off yet. But if Lilah tries to get Wes in more trouble with Angel - and Wes double crosses Lilah, Wes may be one step closer to being in with the fang gang.
As for Groo, my opinion changes week to week. Last week I hated him, this week not so much but he still feels like a replacement for Wes + comic relief (since Cordy has become more serious). But you gotta feel bad for the guy, hes wearing his heart on his sleeve and Cordy is making in subtly known that her feelings are more with Angel than Groo, no matter what she says.
Also tonights episode gave away a few things about next season, I think...
(All speculation about S4)

One of the Angel writers posted that there would be one addition to the cast next year - the debate was over who it was (Lorne, Justine, Connor, and Holtz were the favorites). I think the exploration of the southern wing of the Hyperion - and the revelation that its a big stage / club - makes the case for Lorne a little stronger. He'll probably just build Caritas right there next year, then Angel will have all his clients right there.
That leaves Lilah, Justine, Holtz, and Connor up in the air. But I'm sure they'll be at least one death in the season finale.
And if Lorne is getting the bump to regular status, all I have to say is its about time.

JQ

 

[Jeff Kleist]

I think that Gavin is one of the Evil Powers that Be

Tonight's Angel: Sooooo Buffyta..Angelriffic

Line of the night:frowning:paraphrase) "...Pomegranit(sp?) Sun is a warrior's color"

 

[Will Cunningham]

Oh man, I cannot describe the RAGE I am feeling right now! Actually, I think I can. I think Angel summed it up again a few weeks ago when he tried to smother Wes. I even had the drool/frothing at the mouth thing going on.

What brings on this horrifing rage you wonder? I will tell you it is those evil wolfram and hart wannabee's over at the WB in Boston. Those vile piles of excrement decided to trash the pivitol last few seconds of this weeks Angel.

In thier infanite wisdom they decided that it was far more important to plug the 10 oclock news than it was for me to see the end of Angel..or the previews for next week. Oh they did decide to tease me and show the last 3 seconds of the preview with no audio squished into a small box that was further squished so they could jabber on about the 10 oclock news...again.

The evil SOB's cut out right after the CGI monster dropped out of the porthole and just as Connor followed it. Of course I did not get to see Connor, his killing the monster, or of couse him revealing himself. oh no...I get to see that the news is coming on.

The rational part of my brain accepts the fact that I did not miss all that much technically, and that next weeks "previously on angel" will probably catch me up to speed...of course that does little to console me or relieve the anger I feel inside.

I feel like charlie brown when lucy pulls the football away. Those evil WB jerks managed to sour the whole Angel experiance. I can't describe how cheated I feel. I never thought I would say this but I am praying this show gets cancelled. I want Angel free from the putrid WB and shining like the polished diamond it is over at UPN where it belongs. Ok, I admit it...I don't like UPN that much either...but they are WAY better than the WB....preemting angel for the 10-oclock news...egad that is wrong....

Sorry for the angry venting....I feel better now...well, untill I try to re-read what I wrote to check the spelling...then the anger boils over again....so I am going to stop and leave my horrible speling the way it is. I am going to go count to 10, go to sleep, and try to dream about how Angelus would handle those WB wankers. lol.

-Will

 

[Jason Seaver]

Will... I think you're attributing malice to a simple mistake. There was obviously a technical snag or two at the end of "Angel" last night, but it's kind of silly to presume it was deliberate on WLVI's part.

Come on... Deep breaths, don't let something this small raise your blood pressure.

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

It feels like they're trying to make Gavin an 'Underdog Lindsay', but its just not working out. It seems like hes got some new 'project' every time we see him - last time it was Cameras in the Hotel, then he disappeared, now hes inside info boy?? Nah, I say cut him lose, hes not working.

I think what they are going for with Gavin is that he is giving Lilah the information when he wants her to have it -- never before it is too late for her to look bad in front of their superiors.

Regards,

 

[Tony_P]

Fairly enjoyable episode, but I have come to realize that David Fury is by far my least favorite Buffy/Angel writer. I lost track of the number of times a character said something to the effect of "when you use dark magic there are always consequences!" Enough already! We get it! I wouldn't be surprised to learn if some of the more "repetitive" aspects of Buffy this year were his idea.

But on a positive note, it was good to see Wes again and any episode with lots of Fred and Lorne screen time is most welcome.

 

[Will Cunningham]

Hehe, thanks Jason, I think you might be right in that it was probably a technical glitch more than a malicious attack on my mental well being. lol. I still hope that Angel ends up on UPN but that is mostly because I can't forgive the WB for the whole Buffy season 3 finale incident. I am over the intital shock, still ticked off but not so full of rage. hehe.

I have to agree with Tony, it was nice to see Wes again. I have a new theory about this whole situation. I think they are in the process of trying to "toughen up" Wes. He started on Buffy as a one note "scream like a girly girl" support character and has grown into a much more active role. When he started on Angel he was a "rogue demon hunter" and that was pretty much a joke. I suspect they are trying to make him badass enough that it is no longer a joke but reality. His new voice helps to weed out the "hard to take seriously" accent, and the nasty scar gives him that "Clint Eastwood" vibe. I bet that episode where he went after Fred was an experiment to make sure he could pull it off...hmm, I think I am going to have to think about this one a bit.

Will

 

[Leo Hinze]

Interesting, mysterious, omnipotent power that Cordy now has. Speculation: did the Good PTB make her a more powerful instrument for their work? Can she consciously control the powers? Are her powers only subconsciously used for self-preservation (she didn't kill the squishies until she was about to be infested)? Inquiring minds need to know.

Aside on the conservation of mass - Mass can neither be created nor destroyed, only moved around or transported to another dimension. In other words, where did all the water that these things were drinking go?

Was Holtz's wife pregnant when she was killed by Darla? What if Conner really was Holtz's previously unborn child transported into Darla?

A decent episode. Wesley seems to be taking things a bit hard, but he had some good points about his friends. Why is everyone siding with Angel and forgetting Wes needs friends? Especially Gunn? The only person he seems to love is himself and maybe Fred. He certainly does not like Angel, but I guess the Fred thing is keeping he and Wes from being friends.

 

[Christian Morley]

As for the WB in boston. I have to agree with the venting...it would be somewhat excuseable if it weren't such a pivotal moment and if they hadnt done it before but this is at least the 3rd time the WB has done this to angel (I dont knwo fi they do it to other shows as well since pretty much the only wb shows i watch are angel and smallville)

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Call them and complain!

We swamped our UPN station when they pre-empted the musical for an Emergency Hockey Game™ and it took them a week to respond there were so many calls (I think they got over 200 complaints). So much that next year their new hockey contract specifically EXCLUDES Buffy night in its current form.

 

[Jason Seaver]

A decent episode. Wesley seems to be taking things a bit hard, but he had some good points about his friends. Why is everyone siding with Angel and forgetting Wes needs friends?

Well, kidnapping a baby is a pretty heinous thing to do, and he hurt Lorne fairly badly while doing it. Arguably even worse, once he had translated the prophecy, he didn't tell Angel, or Fred, or Gunn, or Cordelia, or even try to get Giles or some other trustworthy contact on the phone to get confirmation. Instead, he went to Holtz. How are they supposed to react? Gunn was Wesley's best friend, but Wes opted to trust a vengence-crazed mystery man over him.

Sure, he was feeling alienated, but the bottom line is, they don't feel they can trust him. And can you really blame them?