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The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke (2 Viewers)

Nick Martin

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Douglas Monce said:
I doubt that the framing remains consistent from shot to shot. It's unlikely that they just pulled the image from the center of the frame.
Doug
I took the prologue and made a 2.35:1 version by doing just that, and the ending montage suffered because Batman's head was missing in the Sears Tower shot near the end, so the image was adjusted for cropping depending on the shot.
 

TonyD

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Nicholas Martin said:
No, the DVD version is 2.40:1 ONLY, with the IMAX scenes on the second disc of the 2-disc DVD version.
The question I've been asking (since I'll get both DVD and BD) is what AR are the DVD IMAX scenes, since they don't have to be formatted for HDTV, they theoretically could be in 1.43:1 as originally shot.
that blu-ray lists the imax sections as 1.78:1
 

Mark-P

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I first saw this thread and thought, "Four pages long... must be an old topic." But then I was suprised to find out it was started yesterday. What a hot topic this is!

Finally someone mentioned the constant height problem. My custom home theater screen is shaped 2.35:1. So in order for me to watch the Blu-ray version, I'd have to watch it smaller 1.78:1 with the curtains drawn and the non-Imax scenes will be letterboxed for me, but the Imax will "open up" to what is, for me, a normal 1.85 (1.78):1 movie, not Imax. Otherwise if I wanted to watch it full-width on my 2.35:1 screen, I'd have to pause the movie every time an Imax scene came up and zoom out and readjust the picture... uh, I don't think so.

The inclusion of both versions on the blu-ray would have be a no-brainer, if you ask me.
 

Nick Martin

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TonyD said:
that blu-ray lists the imax sections as 1.78:1
I know that, but I'm talking about the DVD version. On the DVD version the IMAX scenes are a part of the second disc's extras. If you look at any of the online images of the back DVD cover (2-disc) it mentions the IMAX scenes in their ORIGINAL format, so that could mean 1.43:1, not the modified 1.78:1.
 

Peter Raber

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I am so excited to get this movie on Blu-Ray. I have been chomping at the bit since the news of its ship date was first released.

That said, I too find it a bit odd that they would not include both versions on the disc. It is Blu-Ray after all and they are already selling you 2 discs in the package (3 if you want to count the digital download).

I don't think this is going to hinder many purchases of The Dark Knight. Most people buying discs don't even frequent these forums so will have no clue about this anyway. However, since they are uninformed there might be an outcry about the changing aspect ratios from a lot of people. It would have made life a lot easier for WB to just include both releases a la seemless branching.

No one would or could complain at the point and this would go down as one of the greatest Blu-Ray releases to date. Now, probably not so much. If there is a split opinion on this forum just imagine what the rest of the world will think.

I am thinking that, for me, I won't have a problem with it, but I hope I am right, because this movie was easily the best movie I saw last year, and probably in many years. I would hate to think that watching the Blu-Ray would be less than a thorughly enjoyable time.
 

cafink

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John H Ross said:
I'm referring to the Blu-ray disc. You can see some screenshots here:
Blu-ray.com - The Dark Knight (+ Digital Copy and BD Live) (Blu-ray) - Blu-ray Screenshots
It's only a fraction off-centre, but perhaps just enough to make the aspect changes even more noticable (not only does the picture "change" but is also drops slightly. Maybe I'm just too picky...
I think Batman Begins was similarly "low" on the screen.
I checked those pictures myself, and can confirm what David said--the image is actually exactly vertically centered within the frame. The black bars above and below the image in those screenshots (which have a vertical resolution of 720 pixels) are both 93 pixels tall.
 

Todd smith

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I just have to mention that I am using a 2:35 CIH setup and viewed this movie yesterday and LOVED the changing AR feature. Sure it does not exactly make full use of my setup as I had to mask the sides of the screen and just go for the 1:78 ratio for the movie, but I would not want it any other way....why? This is the way this movie was meant to be experienced from everything I have read and that is EXACTLY how I want to experience it, even if it is a bit of a hassle on my setup. I find it funny that MOST of my fellow 2:35 brothers are up in arms over this because it does not agree with the CIH setup, but most of these same guys are the ones who pushed OAR for years.......hhmmmm.......Kind of contradictory IMO. Just my .02;)
 

Brian D H

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Jason Seaver said:
, the DVD just stays at 2.35:1 for the entire length because the alternatives were giving the trick away from the start by having blank space all around the image or having the image get smaller when the director's intent was to show the world getting larger.
I completely agree. I saw both versions in the theater and the entire point of the IMAX version was clearly to have a constant width image that opens up vertically. The best compromise in the home theater is to crop the IMAX scenes to 1.78:1 - pillar boxing them would defeat the whole purpose.
One other recent movie with changing aspect ratios was Disney's Brother Bear. When the main character is turned into a Bear the aspect ratio opens up horizontally from 1.75:1 to 2.35:1 to symbolize his increased awareness (and presumably increased peripheral vision). The DVD replicated this (unlike Galaxy Quest) with black bars on all sides of the image for the beginning of the movie, that later opens up to the full width of your TV. I was truly shocked that it was Disney (of all studios) that respected a film's original aspect ratio in this way - they could have just cropped it to 1.78:1.
 

Edwin-S

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Todd smith said:
I find it funny that MOST of my fellow 2:35 brothers are up in arms over this because it does not agree with the CIH setup, but most of these same guys are the ones who pushed OAR for years.......hhmmmm.......Kind of contradictory IMO. Just my .02;)
How is it contradictory? This BD isn't in any of the OARs of the original theatrical releases. It is in a modified aspect ratio designed to approximate the IMAX effect: a poor approximation at that. This film was presented in a 2.35:1 OAR theatrically which is not on this disc. It was presented in IMAX and that presentation is not on this disc. This disc does not contain any OAR presentation of this film, at all.
 

Nick Martin

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Edwin-S said:
This disc does not contain any OAR presentation of this film, at all.
No, but Nolan planned on this modified AR even before the film was in theatres, so it's still a director-approved presentation, like it or not.
 

Edwin-S

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Nicholas Martin said:
No, but Nolan planned on this modified AR even before the film was in theatres, so it's still a director-approved presentation, like it or not.
I'm not contesting the fact that he has approved this MAR'd version. The fact is I don't really care if a director approves MAR'd versions of his own film. My problem is that the MAR'd version of this film is the only version available on BD. MAR vs OAR has been a topic of great debate on this site and people have vehemently argued that films should always be presented in their OAR.
Now, this film comes along where the director has decided that a MAR'd version is the only one that will be presented in high definition and suddenly it's okay. Well, I don't agree. Nolan can mar his film, but there should also be at least one OAR presentation of this film on this BD. That presentation should have been the the theatrically released 2.35:1 version.
 

Ron-P

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Can someone post a link, or quote from Nolan on this issue? I see a lot of posts throwing around comments that he's made on this but nothing that's quoting him directly. Specifically the issue between the SD-DVD and the Blu-ray release, not the theatrical run.
 

Todd smith

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Edwin-S said:
How is it contradictory? This BD isn't in any of the OARs of the original theatrical releases. It is in a modified aspect ratio designed to approximate the IMAX effect: a poor approximation at that. This film was presented in a 2.35:1 OAR theatrically which is not on this disc. It was presented in IMAX and that presentation is not on this disc. This disc does not contain any OAR presentation of this film, at all.
What is contained on the BR is the CLOSEST approximation to the directors intent which was the IMAX version from everything I have read. This is how the film was meant to be seen (at least the closest to it). The straight 2:35 presentation is NOT the directors vision.
 

Jason Seaver

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Edwin-S said:
This BD isn't in any of the OARs of the original theatrical releases.
It's the best alternative. As much as it's our instinct and training to demand the exact dimensions of the theater, art tends to find ways to confound hard-and-fast rules.
 

Brian D H

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Todd smith said:
What is contained on the BR is the CLOSEST approximation to the directors intent which was the IMAX version from everything I have read. This is how the film was meant to be seen (at least the closest to it). The straight 2:35 presentation is NOT the directors vision.
I have to agree. The 2:35 theatrical presentation was either a) forced on him by the studio or b) a compromise since the IMAX version simply could not be shown in many theaters and he was forced to simply crop his IMAX sequences to make them fit the many theaters in this country that could not show his vision. The 2:35 theatrical release IS a MAR'd version.
Question: How is cropping his IMAX sequences entirely to 2:35 for the theatrical release not WORSE than cropping them to only 1:78 for the BluRay release? They are BOTH modified from the director's intent, but at least the BluRay version is closer. His only other choice would have been to pillar-box the entire movie.
 

RobertR

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It would be interesting to do a survey to see how many of those objecting to the changing AR saw the film in IMAX.
 

Ed St. Clair

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Todd Smith said:
What is contained on the BR is the CLOSEST approximation to the directors intent which was the IMAX version from everything I have read. This is how the film was meant to be seen (at least the closest to it). The straight 2:35 presentation is NOT the directors vision.
If you indeed: "had to mask the sides of the screen and just go for the 1:78 ratio for the movie"; you did not watch it: "as the director intended".
-------------------------------
This is a "joke"; a BIG joke!
This is not how it was presented in most theaters & not how it was presented in IMAX. And we don't even get what the SD offers.
WB has re-released 'adjusted' AR's for titles in the past; I predict this will be the case for this title as well.
========================
Thanks for the history of "the prelude".
GREAT marketing!
 

RobertR

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Ed St. Clair said:
&
If you indeed: "had to mask the sides of the screen and just go for the 1:78 ratio for the movie"; you did not watch it: "as the director intended".
I got the impression he was talking about changing his setup to a constant width setup instead of constant height, not that he watched one ratio.
 

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