THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans (NEW UPDATE 10/2 Po (1 Viewer)

[Bob Furmanek]

Absolutely and UCLA charges substantial fees to license their restorations. For example, their beautiful HD master of THE QUIET MAN, restored from the three-color separation masters, sits on the shelf and a less-than-optimum version was released by Olive.

 

[Tony Bensley]

Absolutely and UCLA charges substantial fees to license their restorations. For example, their beautiful HD master of THE QUIET MAN, restored from the three-color separation masters, sits on the shelf and a less-than-optimum version was released by Olive.

Hi Bob!

It just doesn't seem to make any practical sense that they should charge so much for licensing as to virtually GUARANTEE that their beautiful restorations sit on the shelf, viewed by nobody! In my opinion, that rather defeats the purpose of restoring these marvelous Films to begin with!

Typical!

CHEERS!

Tony

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Hi Tony,

I agree 100%!

I've just put up this little visual comparison showing what a 1.37:1 image would have looked like in a small-town theater on a new widescreen.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/313215-aspect-ratio-documentation/?p=4120049

 

[Tony Bensley]

Hi Tony,

I agree 100%!

I've just put up this little visual comparison showing what a 1.37:1 image would have looked like in a small-town theater on a new widescreen.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/313215-aspect-ratio-documentation/?p=4120049

Hi Bob!

First off, thank you very kindly for sharing the article regarding Neosha Missouri's Orpheum Theatre's Fall/1953 Widescreen conversion, along with your Screen Aspect examples!

I never had any argument insofar as Academy Ratio Films playing in the newly converted Widescreen Cinemas, only the possibility of there having been some Theaters in less Urban Areas that didn't immediately convert to Widescreen Format. Bringing this back to the Bowery Boys, I do think it is fair to say that PRIVATE EYES very likely played at Academy Ratio in at least some as yet unconverted Theaters during its first run. Also, as I've previously stated, when it comes to the debate as to whether to issue the 1.37:1 Academy Ratio Matte Prints (Which were later broadcast on Television.) or Original Theatrically released Widescreen (Cropped from the Academy Ratio Print.) to Home Video, I am on the Fence, and do see both sides of the argument.

CHEERS!

Tony

 

[Randy Korstick]

I might be mis-interpreting you but if you are referring to who made and released the films originally to theaters then this is the correct information:

1st Dead End Kids Movie: Goldwyn
Dead End Kids series: Warners
East Side Kids: Monogram
Little Tough Guys: Universal
The Bowery Boys: Monogram/Allied Artists

All of these are completely different series and completely different films and not re-brandings of the name.
One series replaced the next with only East Side Kids and Little Tough Guys running at the same time with different actors and a few crossovers.

Republic released the titles are so I have been told, Not Monogram. So they would belong to Paramount. Two different studios. It does get confusing. Most are PD so the likely hood of them coming out is sketchy.But can't wait for the final volume.

 

[Tony Bensley]

I might be mis-interpreting you but if you are referring to who made and released the films originally to theaters then this is the correct information:

1st Dead End Kids Movie: Goldwyn
Dead End Kids series: Warners
East Side Kids: Monogram
Little Tough Guys: Universal
The Bowery Boys: Monogram/Allied Artists

All of these are completely different series and completely different films and not re-brandings of the name.
One series replaced the next with only East Side Kids and Little Tough Guys running at the same time with different actors and a few crossovers.

Hi Randy!

While I recognize that Release Rights issues can be a complicated Beast, it looks as though apart from the first Dead End Kids Title and the Little Tough Guys Series, I think that it SHOULD be within the Warner Archive's capability to issue these Series to Home Video. Whether or not they might find this to be financially viable is another matter, however!

CHEERS!

Tony

 

[Randy Korstick]

Yes. I seem to recall someone asking about the East Side Kids on their Facebook page after the first volume of the Bowery Boys was released and I think their reply was something along the lines of "element issues but we'll look into it".
I'm under the belief that Warner owns the entire Monogram catalog of films but it is possible some may be with other rights holders but I had not heard that before. All Monogram films that have been released so far on Home Video have been by Warner.
I hope someday they will release them if UCLA has good copies that would be great but the question there would be do they have good copies of all 22 East Side Kid films. If there are too many problem titles that would be enough to make Warner think twice. Also they may doubt sales potential since half of them have been released frequently as public domain titles.

Hi Randy!

While I recognize that Release Rights issues can be a complicated Beast, it looks as though apart from the first Dead End Kids Title and the Little Tough Guys Series, I think that it SHOULD be within the Warner Archive's capability to issue these Series to Home Video. Whether or not they might find this to be financially viable is another matter, however!

CHEERS!

Tony

 

[Tony Bensley]

Yes. I seem to recall someone asking about the East Side Kids on their Facebook page after the first volume of the Bowery Boys was released and I think their reply was something along the lines of "element issues but we'll look into it".
I'm under the belief that Warner owns the entire Monogram catalog of films but it is possible some may be with other rights holders but I had not heard that before. All Monogram films that have been released so far on Home Video have been by Warner.
I hope someday they will release them if UCLA has good copies that would be great but the question there would be do they have good copies of all 22 East Side Kid films. If there are too many problem titles that would be enough to make Warner think twice. Also they may doubt sales potential since half of them have been released frequently as public domain titles.

Hi Randy!

I agree that having good copies of all 22 East Side Kids' Entries is for the Warner Archive, a crucial ingredient for there even to be any possiblity of them releasing these! However, I'm not certain that their frequent issuing as Public Domain Titles would really serve as any great deterrent, as it is my belief that fans of this series will gladly junk their crappy looking East Side Kids' VHS/DVD Prints (I know I would!) for quality that's at least comparable to the Warner Archive's Bowery Boys Sets!

Who knows what the future might bring?

CHEERS!

Tony

 

[Tony Bensley]

Getting back to the Bowery Boys Collection, here is a list from Wikipedia, which I modified to include the Volume Numbers for each Film that has been issued to DVD, thus far! The 12 remaining unreleased Titles to date are indented right next to the year heading.

Bowery Boys Filmography:
Year Volume Movie Notes
1946 (1) Live Wires Leo Gorcey, Huntz Hall, Bobby Jordan, Billy Benedict, William Frambes
1946 (1) In Fast Company David Gorcey replaces William Frambes
1946 (1) Bowery Bombshell
1946 (2) Spook Busters First film with Gabriel Dell
1946 Mr. Hex
1947 (2) Hard Boiled Mahoney
1947 (1) News Hounds
1947 (2) Bowery Buckaroos Last film with Bobby Jordan
1948 (3) Angels' Alley
1948 (3) Jinx Money Bennie Bartlett replaces Bobby Jordan
1948 (2) Smugglers' Cove
1948 Trouble Makers
1949 (1) Fighting Fools
1949 (1) Hold That Baby!
1949 (3) Angels in Disguise
1949 (1) Master Minds
1950 (1) Blonde Dynamite Buddy Gorman replaces Bennie Bartlett
1950 (1) Lucky Losers
1950 Triple Trouble
1950 (1) Blues Busters Last film with Gabriel Dell, who is not replaced
1951 Bowery Battalion
1951 (2) Ghost Chasers
1951 (2) Let's Go Navy! Last film with Buddy Gorman
1951 (1) Crazy Over Horses Last film with Billy Benedict; David Gorcey becomes David Condon; Bennie Bartlett replaces Buddy Gorman
1952 (2) Hold That Line Gil Stratton, Jr. replaces Billy Benedict
1952 Here Come the Marines Last film with Gil Stratton, Jr., who is not replaced
1952 (3) Feudin' Fools Gang becomes standardized: Leo Gorcey, Huntz Hall, David Condon, Bennie Bartlett
1952 (1) No Holds Barred
1953 (3) Jalopy
1953 (2) Loose in London
1953 (2) Clipped Wings
1953 (2) Private Eyes* *Issued by Warner at 1.33:1 Aspect Ratio, though originally released to Theaters at a cropped from Matte 1.66:1 Aspect Ratio.
1954 (3) Paris Playboys
1954 (2) The Bowery Boys Meet the Monsters
1954 Jungle Gents
1955 Bowery to Bagdad
1955 (2) High Society
1955 Spy Chasers
1955 Jail Busters
1956 (3) Dig That Uranium Last film with Bernard Gorcey; last film with Bennie Bartlett
1956 (3) Crashing Las Vegas Last film with Leo Gorcey; Jimmy Murphy replaces Bennie Bartlett; Doris Kemper replaces Bernard Gorcey
1956 Fighting Trouble First film with Stanley Clements; Danny Welton replaces Jimmy Murphy; Queenie Smith replaces Doris Kemper
1956 (3) Hot Shots Jimmy Murphy replaces Danny Welton
1957 Hold That Hypnotist Huntz Hall, Stanley Clements, David Condon, Jimmy Murphy
1957 (3) Spook Chasers David Condon reverts to David Gorcey; first film with Eddie LeRoy; Percy Helton replaces Queenie Smith
1957 (3) Looking for Danger Last film with Jimmy Murphy; Dick Elliott replaces Percy Helton
1957 (3) Up in Smoke Huntz Hall, Stanley Clements, David Gorcey, Eddie LeRoy
1958 In the Money

I hope that this listing proves helpful!

CHEERS!

Tony

 

[ahollis]

I might be mis-interpreting you but if you are referring to who made and released the films originally to theaters then this is the correct information:1st Dead End Kids Movie: GoldwynDead End Kids series: WarnersEast Side Kids: MonogramLittle Tough Guys: UniversalThe Bowery Boys: Monogram/Allied ArtistsAll of these are completely different series and completely different films and not re-brandings of the name.One series replaced the next with only East Side Kids and Little Tough Guys running at the same time with different actors and a few crossovers.

You are absolutely correct. My memory must be fading. Or I need reading glasses to tell the difference between Monogram and Republic. Perhaps there is a chance we will see a couple of volumes of these titles.

 

[Randy Korstick]

Nice list Tony! It also illustrates all the changes in the series and the benefit of watching them in chronological order to maintain continuity.

 

[Randy Korstick]

Excellent idea Bob. I figured it was worth a shot to ask them about it on their Facebook Page. Here is what I wrote, I hope you don't mind me using your name.

For the upcoming Bowery Boys Volume 4, Is there any chance that you would consider releasing the film "Private Eyes" again as a bonus in its original aspect ratio of 1.66:1? I know many fans of the series would really appreciate it. I know you originally tried it at 1.85:1 like the other widescreen films and it was too tight but it has been recently confirmed by Bob Furmanek's research that this first widescreen film in the series was 1.66:1 as Allied Artist were still trying to decide on what ratio to adapt in 1953. This has been confirmed by theater trade sheets. Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to the next volume.

They should include a widescreen PRIVATE EYES in the 4th volume now that's it's been established the correct aspect ratio is 1.66:1.

 

[Tony Bensley]

I might be mis-interpreting you but if you are referring to who made and released the films originally to theaters then this is the correct information:

1st Dead End Kids Movie: Goldwyn
Dead End Kids series: Warners
East Side Kids: Monogram
Little Tough Guys: Universal
The Bowery Boys: Monogram/Allied Artists

All of these are completely different series and completely different films and not re-brandings of the name.
One series replaced the next with only East Side Kids and Little Tough Guys running at the same time with different actors and a few crossovers.

Worth Noting:
Nearly all of the Dead End Kids Features have had proper DVD Releases, with the inaugural DEAD END having been issued by MGM, and the rest by Warner, except for THEY MADE ME A CRIMINAL (I don't count LITTLE TOUGH GUY (1938), as Leo Gorcey isn't in this, and thus could be counted as a defacto Little Tough Guys inaugural entry!) which is apparently a Public Domain Title, at least judging by the number of Studios that have issued this. The three later Dead End Kids Serials, JUNIOR G-MEN (1940), SEA RAIDERS (Though minus Leo Gorcey, I question the Dead End Kids Moniker. More of a defacto Little Tough Guys, in my opinion!) and JUNIOR G-MEN OF THE AIR (1942), were released to DVD by a less than stellar name (Alpha). All of these can be currently found on Amazon at reasonably obtainable prices. In my opinion, the one series that has very little chance of ever seeing proper issue is Little Tough Guys, as I don't see this one having any kind of priority with Universal, who I presume holds the Release rights to those films.

CHEERS!

Tony

 

[Randy Korstick]

Yeah I agree on Little Tough Guys probably never coming out. It is the least know of all the series so that would make it even less a priority. I don't think the series has ever been released on TV. I've never seen any of them except for a bad VHS of Little Tough Guy.
I think the 3 serials are considered part of the Little Tough Guys series as they were made by Universal at the same time the series was running. Which also explains Leo Gorcey's absence as he was heading the East Side Kids series at Monogram and Billy Hallop was heading the Little Tough Guys series at Universal with Huntz Hall crossing over both series.

Worth Noting:
Nearly all of the Dead End Kids Features have had proper DVD Releases, with the inaugural DEAD END having been issued by MGM, and the rest by Warner, except for THEY MADE ME A CRIMINAL (I don't count LITTLE TOUGH GUY (1938), as Leo Gorcey isn't in this, and thus could be counted as a defacto Little Tough Guys inaugural entry!) which is apparently a Public Domain Title, at least judging by the number of Studios that have issued this. The three later Dead End Kids Serials, JUNIOR G-MEN (1940), SEA RAIDERS (Though minus Leo Gorcey, I question the Dead End Kids Moniker. More of a defacto Little Tough Guys, in my opinion!) and JUNIOR G-MEN OF THE AIR (1942), were released to DVD by a less than stellar name (Alpha). All of these can be currently found on Amazon at reasonably obtainable prices. In my opinion, the one series that has very little chance of ever seeing proper issue is Little Tough Guys, as I don't see this one having any kind of priority with Universal, who I presume holds the Release rights to those films.

CHEERS!

Tony

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Excellent idea Bob. I figured it was worth a shot to ask them about it on their Facebook Page. Here is what I wrote, I hope you don't mind me using your name.

For the upcoming Bowery Boys Volume 4, Is there any chance that you would consider releasing the film "Private Eyes" again as a bonus in its original aspect ratio of 1.66:1? I know many fans of the series would really appreciate it. I know you originally tried it at 1.85:1 like the other widescreen films and it was too tight but it has been recently confirmed by Bob Furmanek's research that this first widescreen film in the series was 1.66:1 as Allied Artist were still trying to decide on what ratio to adapt in 1953. This has been confirmed by theater trade sheets. Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to the next volume.

That's okay with me, Randy.

Please let me know if you get a reply. Thank you!

 

[Vic Pardo]

There were a number of other Warner Bros. movies with the Dead End Kids, e.g. ANGELS WASH THEIR FACES, CRIME SCHOOL, HELL'S KITCHEN and one I've never seen called, ON DRESS PARADE. Have they ever been released on home video? Or in a box set with, say, ANGELS WITH DIRTY FACES?

 

[Randy Korstick]

Actually all of those have been released by Warner Archive and are on my list of films to get. Unfortunately not as a set.
Angel's Wash Their Faces and Crime School are released as individual titles and Hell's Kitchen/On Dress Parade as a double feature.

There were a number of other Warner Bros. movies with the Dead End Kids, e.g. ANGELS WASH THEIR FACES, CRIME SCHOOL, HELL'S KITCHEN and one I've never seen called, ON DRESS PARADE. Have they ever been released on home video? Or in a box set with, say, ANGELS WITH DIRTY FACES?

 

[Tony Bensley]

There were a number of other Warner Bros. movies with the Dead End Kids, e.g. ANGELS WASH THEIR FACES, CRIME SCHOOL, HELL'S KITCHEN and one I've never seen called, ON DRESS PARADE. Have they ever been released on home video? Or in a box set with, say, ANGELS WITH DIRTY FACES?

Hi Vic!

Warner has issued all of the above titles to DVD. As I mentioned in my previous post, all Leo Gorcey helmed Dead End Kids Features, save THEY MADE ME A CRIMINAL (Which unfortunately appears to have been relegated to Public Domainville!) have had a proper DVD Release! If I ever decide to purchase this title, I'll most likely take a chance with the Roan DVD, as I've heard they did a decent job with the 1952 Kirk Douglas Technicolor Feature, THE BIG TREES.

The inaugural DEAD END is available as an MGM issued DVD.

CHEERS!

Tony

 

[ahollis]

Hi Vic!Warner has issued all of the above titles to DVD. As I mentioned in my previous post, all Leo Gorcey helmed Dead End Kids Features, save THEY MADE ME A CRIMINAL (Which unfortunately appears to have been relegated to Public Domainville!) have had a proper DVD Release! If I ever decide to purchase this title, I'll most likely take a chance with the Roan DVD, as I've heard they did a decent job with the 1952 Kirk Douglas Technicolor Feature, THE BIG TREES.The inaugural DEAD END is available as an MGM issued DVD.CHEERS!Tony

It would be nice if WAC added THEY MADE ME A CRIMINAL to the last volume of the Bowery Boys As an extra. Not quite the Bowery Boys but nether the less it would be a good addition.

 

[Tony Bensley]

10 months and counting since THE BOWERY BOYS, VOL. 3 was issued..................

Still waiting for Volume 4.

SIGH!