THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans (NEW UPDATE 10/2 Po (1 Viewer)

[mdnitoil]

Not for nothing, but finding errors on IMDB, particularly aspect ratio errors, is extremely common.

 

[Mark Y]

Regarding the whole widescreen thing -- I know this is a debate that's gone on for years, and I understand the whole "essential area" and "shot composition with widescreen in mind" and "director's intent" stuff...but would it be such a problem to provide the option for either one, as was done for some of the recent Warner Bros. "Super Stars" cartoon DVDs? I personally don't have a widescreen TV, so please forgive my ignorance, but I do have a simple question: when playing back a DVD on a widescreen TV, they have different selections for aspect ratio, right? Let's say they don't crop a movie specifically for widescreen. If your TV is on the widescreen setting (however they label it), would you get the same shot composition as you would have in a theatre in 1953, or is there more to it than that? (This is assuming it's just mastered in full-frame and not "panned-and-scanned.") (If not, someone ought to perfect the technology to do that, and problem solved! Of course, I have a feeling it's probably more complicated than that.) I would have to guess that once television was part of the landscape, filmmakers had to know that after a few months of a theatrical run (plus reissues if any) for the rest of the life of a movie (for the foreseeable future, as far as anyone knew then) for the most part they would end up on television being shown in 4:3 format. I know there are certain specific cases where a boom mic might be hanging high in a shot which you're not supposed to see, or an extreme case like A Fish Called Wanda where John Cleese is supposed to be dancing around naked, but was actually wearing pants during the filming, but for the most part I think this has largely become "the new pan and scan." I dunno, I just don't like anything that takes choices/options away from the consumer/viewer. Anyway, back to the discussion...it's great that these are coming out!

 

[Tony Bensley]

Regarding the whole widescreen thing -- I know this is a debate that's gone on for years, and I understand the whole "essential area" and "shot composition with widescreen in mind" and "director's intent" stuff...but would it be such a problem to provide the option for either one, as was done for some of the recent Warner Bros. "Super Stars" cartoon DVDs? I personally don't have a widescreen TV, so please forgive my ignorance, but I do have a simple question: when playing back a DVD on a widescreen TV, they have different selections for aspect ratio, right? Let's say they don't crop a movie specifically for widescreen. If your TV is on the widescreen setting (however they label it), would you get the same shot composition as you would have in a theatre in 1953, or is there more to it than that? (This is assuming it's just mastered in full-frame and not "panned-and-scanned.") (If not, someone ought to perfect the technology to do that, and problem solved! Of course, I have a feeling it's probably more complicated than that.)

It is, to paraphrase your question a bit more complicated. When a Widescreen TV is on the widescreen setting, it will 'generally', stretch the image (In Full Screen mode), rather than giving you the same shot composition. However, some TV's will provide you with a number of options, which may or may not allow you to 'approximate' a same shot composition. On our 32 inch Toshiba Flatscreen, for example, the 'TheaterWide 1' setting does come pretty close to achieving this (I detect a 'very slight' horizontal stretch!) effect! In addition, when I use this setting, I notice a bit more image on the left and right side of the screen, which cancels out most of the stretching that would otherwise occur. I've noticed this with ALL films and broadcasts! Evidently, the 4:3 setting doesn't give you the full picture! In an earlier post, I think I mentioned that I would post my findings once I checked my TCM Bowery Boys recordings to see if the later ones were shown widescreen. Last night, I did check, and they were not! I'll have to try out my 'TheaterWide 1' setting on these at some point! CHEERS!

 

[Tony Bensley]

I've now seen each of the films on the first two DVD's of this set. I must say the overall quality of these is quite good! The other night, I tried my little experiment of viewing one of the "open matte" films using our Flatscreen's "TheaterWide 1" setting. I did this with THE BOWERY BOYS MEET THE MONSTERS. I didn't get to viewing the entire film as I had some distractions, but I did view enough of it to see that indeed, no meaningful imagery was lost, whereas, in the earlier BB entries, meaningful images (IE. Heads!) DO indeed fill the entire screen! On the other hand, the video quality is definitely not up to what I have seen on the Warner Archive titles thus far! The message is, for those who really like these films, I definitely recommend ordering the Bowery Boys DVD volumes (For those who haven't already done so!). It is well worth the money! The homemade video collections may not look so great as some might think, memory recall can be a tricky thing, after all! Also, I have found that since buying a Flatscreen TV, homemade videos that looked perfectly fine on our old style CRT Television don't always look so hot on the new set, even with making adjustments--They really do highlight the imperfections, I have found! CHEERS!

 

[Lecagr]

I've now seen each of the films on the first two DVD's of this set. I must say the overall quality of these is quite good! The other night, I tried my little experiment of viewing one of the "open matte" films using our Flatscreen's "TheaterWide 1" setting. I did this with THE BOWERY BOYS MEET THE MONSTERS. I didn't get to viewing the entire film as I had some distractions, but I did view enough of it to see that indeed, no meaningful imagery was lost, whereas, in the earlier BB entries, meaningful images (IE. Heads!) DO indeed fill the entire screen! On the other hand, the video quality is definitely not up to what I have seen on the Warner Archive titles thus far! The message is, for those who really like these films, I definitely recommend ordering the Bowery Boys DVD volumes (For those who haven't already done so!). It is well worth the money! The homemade video collections may not look so great as some might think, memory recall can be a tricky thing, after all! Also, I have found that since buying a Flatscreen TV, homemade videos that looked perfectly fine on our old style CRT Television don't always look so hot on the new set, even with making adjustments--They really do highlight the imperfections, I have found! CHEERS!

No reason for me to spend money on movies which I already have, my own collection of the series is superb, I'm happy with it. In addition to that, I don't like that Warners is not issuing the films in chronological order. I also don't like that the later films are going to be issued in widescreen, I do not want any of these films in widescreen. So these DVD's will be a no buy for me. But as a Bowery Boys fan, I visit this forum on occasion to participate in discussing the films.

 

[LouA]

I dragged my heels on ordering this because I was dissapointed that it was bering released on DVD-R. Then I read that these are sctually real DVDs . I ordered yesterday from Movies Unlimited. I hope I get factory pressed DVDs. Does anyone know if MU is still shipping real DVDs?

 

[Tony Bensley]

That's never been an issue for me. With fullscreen versions cropped from widescreen, it is unimportant images in the background that get trimmed out, the neccessary images that need to be seen are in the picture.

It is actually the other way around. That is, the unimportant imaging is cut from the widescreen versions of the open matte films. However, I think it is important to understand that this is the way in which these later Bowery Boys entries were first viewed when they originally ran in the Theaters (Starting in 1954, with THE BOWERY BOYS MEET THE MONSTERS). I'm quite sure that no crucial action would be lost to the Theater Patrons of the day! The Full Screen versions of these mid to late fifties entries were only seen in subsequent Television broadcasts. Still, I can understand that those who were raised with repeated viewings of say, DIG THAT URANIUM (From 1956) on a 4:3 TV screen might take issue with it! As for me, until fairly recently, I had only seen a handful of the earlier BB films, any of which would, indeed suffer from major decapitated head syndrome as a result of similar cropping, for the simple reason they weren't filmed with widescreen in mind during the late forties! In my opinion, the visual quality of the films on volume 1 causes me to conclude that the tradeoff of the cropped widescreen instead of open matte will be well worth it, for the video quality! Frankly, I don't know if I'll ever be able to sit through an entire TCM recording of any of these, after having watched the Warner Archive versions! I think it is safe to say the Bowery Boys haven't looked better since their original Theatrical run! CHEERS!

 

[Ruz-El]

I can't believe at this point that the aspect ratios are even being discussed. I watched the whole set and I have to admit... these get pretty great. The first disc had me a bit underwhelmed. "Hold That Baby" though was fantastic and for the most part all films following where good stuff. Nice to see these continuing. Now we need at least one more volume out before June so I can get it for my dads birthday.

 

[Randy Korstick]

I can't believe at this point that the aspect ratios are even being discussed. I watched the whole set and I have to admit... these get pretty great. The first disc had me a bit underwhelmed. "Hold That Baby" though was fantastic and for the most part all films following where good stuff. Nice to see these continuing. Now we need at least one more volume out before June so I can get it for my dads birthday.

Glad to hear you enjoyed them more as you went along. They probably do require a few films to get to know their style like most comedy teams. The early entries were more Comedy-Dramas as they continued in the style of the East Side kids. Starting in the 3rd year of the series (1948) there was a shift towards more comedy and less drama and by 1951 they were pure comedies. This reason and the supporting players changes along the way are the two big reasons that most fans wanted these released in chronological order and I still think they are best viewed this way.

 

[Tony Bensley]

The following information is for Bowery Boys fans outside the U.S. only. For those who may have considered ordering these from WB Shop dot com, please note the following from their Shipping and Returns Tab: "We apologize to our international fans, but this item cannot be shipped outside the U.S. due to legal agreements." Thank goodness we have Movies Unlimited (For Canucks at least!), and U.S. Amazon as viable options! Udderwise, whatta regurgitatin' development dis would be! CHEERS!

 

[Ruz-El]

Yeah, in Canada here I ordered from Movies Unlimited. TCM ships to Canada as well. Warner Archives do not ship outisde the US period. It's my main complaint with the program. Us international film fans get screwed on the prices. Also, Warner's does NOT support replacement of faulty discs in the archive programs to those of us outside of the US. I had a bad pressed disc in volume 4 of the Forbidden Hollywood set and Warner's would not replace it. Thankfully TCM did, they sent out a new set at no charge. I have no idea how movies unlimited deal with defective product, but TCM so far has not done wrong by me. Plus you can usually get a 10-15% off deal from them.

 

[Tony Bensley]

Yeah, in Canada here I ordered from Movies Unlimited. TCM ships to Canada as well. Warner Archives do not ship outisde the US period. It's my main complaint with the program. Us international film fans get screwed on the prices. Also, Warner's does NOT support replacement of faulty discs in the archive programs to those of us outside of the US. I had a bad pressed disc in volume 4 of the Forbidden Hollywood set and Warner's would not replace it. Thankfully TCM did, they sent out a new set at no charge. I have no idea how movies unlimited deal with defective product, but TCM so far has not done wrong by me. Plus you can usually get a 10-15% off deal from them.

I paid $8 shipping with Movies Unlimited. Even though their base price of the BB DVD set is higher than Amazon, MU is still chaper when the shipping cost is figured in, plus my understanding is Amazon only offers the DVD-Rs, as opposed to the limited pressed discs obtainable through MU and WB. It looks as though TCM's cost is $5.95 (based on 7-10 Business Days Shipping.). Does the same shipping cost generally hold for Canada, or do they usally add a couple of bucks, as is typical? Also, I've read that volume 2 is supposed to be released February 26. However, I haven't been able to find anything online to confirm this! If anyone knows about this, and the source of the information, could they please post? CHEERS!

 

[Joe Karlosi]

Glad to hear you enjoyed them more as you went along. They probably do require a few films to get to know their style like most comedy teams. The early entries were more Comedy-Dramas as they continued in the style of the East Side kids. Starting in the 3rd year of the series (1948) there was a shift towards more comedy and less drama and by 1951 they were pure comedies. This reason and the supporting players changes along the way are the two big reasons that most fans wanted these released in chronological order and I still think they are best viewed this way.

I guess I might have preferred them strictly chronological, but as it turned out I thought VOLUME ONE was a really nice assortment of different years, and I'm still of the belief that newbies won't get themselves tied into backwards knots or anything, if they view them in any old sequence. Even when you view them in release order, the films still did vary from one release to the next concerning the levels of comedy and drama --- at least before the '50s. But now I'm just excited for VOLUME TWO and I hope it doesn't take too long!

 

[Lecagr]

Glad to hear you enjoyed them more as you went along. They probably do require a few films to get to know their style like most comedy teams. The early entries were more Comedy-Dramas as they continued in the style of the East Side kids. Starting in the 3rd year of the series (1948) there was a shift towards more comedy and less drama and by 1951 they were pure comedies. This reason and the supporting players changes along the way are the two big reasons that most fans wanted these released in chronological order and I still think they are best viewed this way.

The Bowery Boys movies from 1946 to 1950 are for the most part, exercises in gangster melodrama. When Gabriel Dell left the series after the Blues Busters entry is when the series took a noticeable shift towards comedy. It's worth noting however, that it took a couple films for Huntz Hall's Sach character to transform into the zany Sach that would continue for the rest of the series. In Bowery Battalion and Ghost Chasers, the Sach character is still mostly the same Sach from the earlier films. But in Let's Go Navy, Sach is completely transformed and is now the zany Sach. Let's Go Navy was also a big turning point in the series, it was after this film that producer Jan Grippo left the series. Beginning with Crazy Over Horses, producer Jerry Thomas was brought in and the change over to all out comedy was complete. Regarding Bobby Jordan, I can see why he left the series after the 8th picture. In the Bowery Boys, his role was reduced and he was more in the background. In the East Side Kids movies, he's a lot more prominent.

 

[Tony Bensley]

The Bowery Boys movies from 1946 to 1950 are for the most part, exercises in gangster melodrama. When Gabriel Dell left the series after the Blues Busters entry is when the series took a noticeable shift towards comedy. It's worth noting however, that it took a couple films for Huntz Hall's Sach character to transform into the zany Sach that would continue for the rest of the series. In Bowery Battalion and Ghost Chasers, the Sach character is still mostly the same Sach from the earlier films. But in Let's Go Navy, Sach is completely transformed and is now the zany Sach. Let's Go Navy was also a big turning point in the series, it was after this film that producer Jan Grippo left the series. Beginning with Crazy Over Horses, producer Jerry Thomas was brought in and the change over to all out comedy was complete. Regarding Bobby Jordan, I can see why he left the series after the 8th picture. In the Bowery Boys, his role was reduced and he was more in the background. In the East Side Kids movies, he's a lot more prominent.

It is interesting that Jan Grippo left right after the very zany LET'S GO NAVY. Perhaps the all out zaniness wasn't a direction Jan entirely favored? I've never read any books that detail the Bowery Boys history, so relevant information might be in print for all I know! My question is, does anyone on the forum know anything regarding the reason/s Mr. Grippo left the BB series? As for Bobby Jordan, it is too bad he didn't stay with the series after 1947. I especially like him in the East Side Kids 1943 entry, KID DYNAMITE. I guess Bobby didn't quite fit into the Bowery Boys mold, as he did with the East Side Kids, and earlier Dead End Kids films! I think it might also be worth noting the following information I found on imdb dot com regarding Bobby Jordan: In 1945 Jordan was involved in an elevator accident which forced the removal of his right kneecap. Perhaps this was also a factor in his lesser role in the Bowery Boys series? CHEERS!

 

[Randy Korstick]

It is interesting that Jan Grippo left right after the very zany LET'S GO NAVY. Perhaps the all out zaniness wasn't a direction Jan entirely favored? I've never read any books that detail the Bowery Boys history, so relevant information might be in print for all I know! My question is, does anyone on the forum know anything regarding the reason/s Mr. Grippo left the BB series? As for Bobby Jordan, it is too bad he didn't stay with the series after 1947. I especially like him in the East Side Kids 1943 entry, KID DYNAMITE. I guess Bobby didn't quite fit into the Bowery Boys mold, as he did with the East Side Kids, and earlier Dead End Kids films! I think it might also be worth noting the following information I found on imdb dot com regarding Bobby Jordan: In 1945 Jordan was involved in an elevator accident which forced the removal of his right kneecap. Perhaps this was also a factor in his lesser role in the Bowery Boys series? CHEERS!

From what I've read in the Bowery Boys book I have; Bobby Jordon was more of a lead character in The East Side Kids but he was given one of the background roles in The Bowery Boys as this series was to be featured around Huntz Hall and Leo Gorcey. Bobby was not happy with this lesser role and left the series after 2 years because of it.

 

[Tony Bensley]

I just checked Bowery Boys producer Jan Grippo's imdb page, and what I found is a bit curious, indeed! Apparently he was an agent who partnered with client Leo Gorcey for the Bowery Boys series. Other than the 23 BB films he produced between 1946 and 1951, there was only one other film that Jan Grippo worked on, as Associate producer for VALENTINO, released in March, 1951. What caused Jan to completely stop producing films after LET'S GO NAVY's release in July, 1951? Did he go back to just being an agent, perhaps? CHEERS!

 

[Dan5ielle]

We are posting a poll to obtain your feedback.

 

[LouA]

I just got this today from MU . Real DVDs and great quality. If you haven't ordered this yet , you can still get real DVDs from MU.

 

[Tony Bensley]

I just got this today from MU . Real DVDs and great quality. If you haven't ordered this yet , you can still get real DVDs from MU.

Movies Unlimited does seem to be the way to go with the Bowery Boys set! Can anyone confirm when volume 2 is being issued? A previous post indicated February 26, but so far, I haven't seen any confirmation at any of the online retailers that are selling volume 1. CHEERS!