The Bits impressed w/Blu titles (1 Viewer)

[ppltd]

Don't get me wrong, David. I am certainly not criticizing Sony, just pointing out that without their presense of the PS3, there would be minimal BD player sales. And I understand that Toshiba is the only true stand alone HD-DVD palyer currently in the market. But having multiple brand players available, and actually selling them are two different issues. The qty of sales of many of the other brand BD players can be counted in the hundreds, or very low thousands (Samsung excluded). They don't even register in the precentile of the total BD players available.

 

[Cees Alons]

Apparently you didn't read the transcript of the recent HD DVD chat. In short: the effect of the compromised player is minimal and this occurence is something the AACS specs accounted for from the start.


Cees

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Cees,

can you elaborate on some of the aspects of BD+ that might be a problem for the consumer?

thanks!

dave

 

[Heresy]

So having dozens of movies 'cracked' and available for download on the Internet is "minimal"? What else are the HD-DVD guys going to say in their chats? That the gigantic security hole in the WinDVD player is a huge embarrassment that has exposed all of thier current discs to copying and distribution?

 

[Shawn Perron]

So people roll thier windows system clocks back once a week... People used to do this with shareware way back when. The player will never reach the 90 day mark and never have it's key renewed. Any protection that is based on dates and times is a waste of time. If the system never reaches 90 days, it never tries to update.

Despite this, all the movies currently available can be unencrypted and released (which pirates are in the process of doing). Due to the nature of a software player, it can never be shut down or disabled. If the key expires, they roll back this system clock and reinstall the software player. If a new protected disc shuts the player down, they use system restore, roll thier clock back and reinstall. Any way you look at it, every single HD-DVD disc on the market at the moment is forever unlocked to pirates. The only real defense they have is that the new HD-DVDs with updated keys (which may take a few months) will not work with the software player and will therefore be protected. Until the AACS on the new discs is updated, all new software is also unlocked.

Basically every time AACS is broken, all software up to that moment and for a short time after is permanently unlocked and can be unencrypted and pirated. Not that BD+ can not be cracked, but it has to be getting a second look by studios that weren't necessarily very interested in it before.

It could be that the main reason we don't have dates for big titles is that the studios want to make sure thier software is once again protected and stays that way. The studios want to protect thier big name movies. Do you really think Warner is going to release the Matrix movies until atleast this current hole is plugged?

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Good point. I did notice that there weren't very many specific dates behind most of WB's HD announcements. Perhaps that's why... they want to be sure they get their next round of big-title releases properly protected before hitting the streets.

I hope that continued hacking this early in the game doesn't ruin HD's launch for us enthusiasts. Do you know in what ways BD+ is more secure than the encryption on HD DVD?

The area of security on HD DVD/BD is the one area I really lack education about. Educate me!

 

[Heresy]

You can see details of the additional Blu-Ray security (BD+ & BD-ROM Mark) here: http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News...x?NewsId=17598

 

[Shawn Perron]

This is my suspicion on why it was so quiet on the software side from the HD-DVD people. They got this giant bombshell dropped in thier laps right before CES. If they had some big announcements for the months of Jan, Feb and March, this had to just put a stop to that. It's probably in thier best interests to just release a bunch of high quality catalog stuff and see what happens next. I definitely don't see anything really big being announced until the current hole is plugged through updating AACS and then waiting a few weeks after the first updated disc to make sure it's working. Having a huge breakdown like this so early in the life of HD is a monumental problem for both formats. Blu-Ray uses the same software players as well, so I'm currently waiting for the other shoe to drop.

 

[Cees Alons]

Possible, in principle, but not as simple as it used to be way back.
Windows XP clocks are synchronized automatically, and you have to accept some PITA arrangements to achieve what you're suggesting.


David: what Heresy said, plus the "license revocation" option (and to a lesser extend a few other "features" as well). I don't think the disadvantages of this kind of functionality will "normally" hit me (I certainly do not intend to engage in illegal copying or even in merely playing bootlegs), but I hate to think of possible disasters for me caused by slight logical malfunctions of electronic equipment like this, or unauthorized "mistakes" (e.g. by children or friends).

Also - and this points to the moment in time when I personally repositioned my opinion about the two HR-formats - I take into account the moral standards of one of the major players behind BD+.
It was performed by a sister company (but fully part of the conglomerate) and although I don't want to revive the whole rootkit disaster here, I am still very much disappointed not only by the facts themselves, but even more so by the way the aftermath was handled. In every sense.

What can we expect in the future from these guys?

As I said: I don't think it's in the consumer's interest if the BD-group had a monopoly now, or in the near future. This is the main point were I disagree with your reasoning. One format, fine, perhaps. But then it should certainly not be BD.


Cees

 

[Shawn Perron]

Actually, it takes about 10 secs to go into the windows services and disable "Windows Time". Shut that off and it no longer synchronizes the clocks. You just have to remember to roll your date back atleast once every 89 days. It's not more difficult then it was back then. Even if you miss it once, just use system restore to a point before you installed it, roll your clock back and reinstall. This applies to those that want to "back up" thier own movies for a HTPC movie server. If you want to have all your HD-DVDs on a media server, this is now possible. Don't forget there are potentially legal uses for this breakdown in the AACS security.

---

I just want to be able to go out and buy movies. I own over 1000 DVDs, and 0 high def movies. I'm stuck renting discs and sitting on the sidelines. BD is just 1 studio away from ending this. HD still needs to get Sony, Fox, MGM and Buena Vista. Eventually the whole HD vs BD fighting needs to stop and we need to just have a single format. Yes each side has things they dislike about the other format, but it's no longer beneficial in any way for this war to go on. Personally, I'm hoping that Universal embraces "Total HD" or just starts putting out BD movies. Then I can finally start buying the movies I love instead of sitting here listening to the rhetoric for the rest of eternity.

 

[Heresy]

This format "war" has turned the world on its ear when Microsoft comes out on top because of moral implications.

 

[nolesrule]

And, of course, someone could write a program that completely automates the process.

 

[MarekM]

it should certainly not be BD ?

Marek

 

[Bill Hunt]

I think if this thread has proven nothing else, it's proven that some of the decisions being made by early adopters to purchase one format or the other are being made emotionally. And I don't mean that in a bad way - people are absolutely entitled to their feelings and opinions. But it's really sad that it had to come down to this and I think we're all going to suffer in the long run for this format war, whichever side you've come down on. And I agree with at least a few of you above, in that here is WAY too much hype being served up by BOTH camps: Blu-ray Victory Inevitable?! Star Trek exclusive on HD-DVD in 2007?! Ugh. I wonder if those responsible for all this even feel guilty anymore, or if they've moved past that to doing anything possible to make sure their format wins no matter what (or at least making sure the other camp's format DOESN'T win)...

 

[Cees Alons]

Marek,

Which is hardly about the format itself, but mainly about the parties (some of them) behind it. See my above post.


Cees

 

[MarekM]

ok.
Marek

 

[DonovanCampbell]

OK,
having lurked a LONG, LONG time, I've got to call you on this. If you do a little checking, you'll quickly find that 'Sony/BMG Music' is a completely separate company, 50/50 owned by Sony Corp and BMG, but not organizationaly part of either corporation. It is a spinoff company with multiple owners, but no majority owner. The company has board members from both owners, but neither has any excessive influence beyond their position on the board.

The 'rootkit fiasco', as you have so ignorantly put several times previously, was proposed by BMG engineers, who should have know better than to try to put the genie in the bottle 20 years later, and approved by the board (made up of Sony and BMG directors, who accepted the word of BMG engineers.

To place any blame on Sony corporation, or to insinuate any kind of 'corporate' moral compass on something that in reality has nothing to do with the consumer electronics division of Sony corp. smacks of ignorance, which is especially wrong from a HTF moderator.

In other words, ask the US Justice department about the 'morals' of Microsoft corporation, compared to just one part of it. How many companies, in which they have a financial interest, are of compelling moral fibre?

And, in terms of 'consumer friendly', how EXACTLY do neutral format studios serve the long term goals of studios and consumers. Does making 100,000 copies of each format cheaper than 200,000 of ONE agreed on format? And how does one title on two formats encourage others to choose a format over another one.

Exclusive studios are not 'consumer UNfriendly', but are a competitive advantage for their particular format.

Donovan

 

[Bob Black]

Well, the only aggressive quote I have even seen from the HD-DVD group was a quote by Universal's Craig Kornblau in September, stating “The reviews are in and HD DVD is hands down the leader in picture quality, audio experiences and interactive capabilities that have never been seen before...Look at the blogs, look at the reviews by the early adopters and even look at the mainstream media – HD DVD has maintained its first-to-market advantage and delivered on the promises of providing the best high definition image and sound quality at the best value for consumers today.” Considering the floundering that BD was experiencing during this time, these quotes are an accurate assessment of the general public's feelings.

Compare to the quotes from the BDA:

July: Mike Dunn - "First of all, the format war is really only going on in the press. Come the late fourth quarter, starting in November, Blu-ray is going to be showing huge numbers. The early adopter is going Blu-ray, and I think it will be readily apparent to that crucial second tier of consumers that Blu-ray is the obvious choice...The penetration of Blu-ray is going to be in the millions of households by early 2007, compared to less than 100,000 households for HD DVD. And, it will penetrate faster than DVD did — going from zero to 10 million households like a rocket. Once the delta between the two formats begins to widen like that early on, it becomes a Blu-ray no-brainer for the consumer.

August: Mike Dunn - “Blu-ray is the superior high definition format and come this holiday season it will be evident that it is really the only choice for consumers that want to enjoy pre-recorded high-definition content at home. It’ll be that simple. It fully delivers on the promise of a next generation format and Blu-ray represents the bright future of the $50 billion global home entertainment industry and the inevitable successor to the incredibly popular DVD.”

January: "I visualize this big 'game over' button," says Sony's VP and chairman Victor Matsuda, who incidentally also serves on the Blu-ray Disc Association's Global Promotion Committee.

"The success of Blu-ray Disc is unprecedented," said Andy Parsons, chair of the U.S. Promotions Committee for the Blu-ray Disc Association. "With unmatched cross-industry support, including seven of the eight major Hollywood studios and two biggest players in the music industry, consumers have voted with their wallets for the format that offers the widest array of hardware and content on the market."

"We are looking forward to this pivotal year and the ultimate establishment of Blu-ray as the high-definition packaged media standard. Infact, Blu-ray sales performance surpassed HD-DVD for the first time the week of December 24 and did so by an impressive 20 per cent. What's more, by the end of the first quarter our research shows the sales gap widening to Blu-ray outselling HD DVD by a 3.5-to-1 ratio," noted Mike Dunn.

__________________________________________________ _______________

As you can see, there is absolutely no comparison between the 2 camps. The same arrogant clowns from the BDA continue to prove themselves strutting asses in this war of words. And don't forget the "Victory Inevitable" brochures they spread around CES last week, further proving their persistent spin, lies, and misrepresentation of facts which they cling to. Look, I understand marketing. I also understand bull*hit & deceit, which is the cornerstone of the BDA. How anyone can pull for these imbeciles is beyond me.

 

[DeeF]

Are people really excited about the BD titles announced at CES? It seems to me... they're trying to play catch-up, but they're way behind.

I bought The Searchers on HD DVD nearly 6 months ago.

When the BD camp announces:

The Sound of Music
Lawrence of Arabia
Star Wars IV, V, VI
Pinocchio

then I will take some interest.

 

[Robert Crawford]

You're right about one thing and that is you're emotionally involved in this format war now. Also, you're not the only one as there is plenty of emotion being expressed by proponents of both formats on the internet.

Also, how many more times do we have to keep rehashing the same HD DVD vs. Blu-ray points that have been prevalent on this forum for as long as I can remembered?