The Battle of Britain: 2 Disc SE will include Walton's original score! (1 Viewer)

[RichardCrowther]

In that case, I think I'll wait to see if any future R1 release of this SE version comes complete with non-butchered picture.

Typical for MGM in PAL-land, sadly. :frowning:

 

[Steve Christou]

eh? What happened? Who is this guy? What?

 

[Maggi Magg]

Well RichardCrowther
the R1 bare bones edition did NOT have the locaction captions burnt in either, they were player generated.
So waiting for this movie to be released with the captions burnt in is gonna be a LOOOOOOOOONG wait for u.



Cheers
Maggi

 

[Steve Christou]

arrgh Maggi we finally get a fabulous 2-disc special edition on region 2 with stereo sound, very nice documentaries, commentary etc and this guy looks for any excuse not to buy it, and is willing to wait indefinitely for some magical region 1 NTSC edition with burnt in subtitles, oooh hold me back someone!

 

[Maggi Magg]

I´m getting this 2-disc edition later today
Can´t Wait

Cheers
Maggi

 

[RichardCrowther]

And I find that remark contemptible. Criticising someone for holding a position contrary to your own (and with such a trite response) is not my idea of respectful posting. If you have a point to make, make it. If you were intending it as a joke, a smiley wouldn't have looked out of place.

 

[Gordon McMurphy]

The original 35mm camera negative has no 'burnt-in' titles. The original duplicate negative and original 1969 prints would have, though, but why use them when you can create a new - and better - print from the neg?

It costs more money and takes more time to create optical titles on a 35mm Panavision print than create electronic player-generated subtitles.

I don't like location titles on films anyway. There are more subtle and artistic ways of establishing a (new) location.

Use this LINK to get £1.50 off any DVD at CD WOW and thus get Battle of Britain for £12.49 - and then select to be charged in US Dollars and save a few more pence!

 

[RichardCrowther]

Very true. Which is no doubt why the new release looks as good as it apparently does (no generation loss). On that score, MGM are to be applauded.

The problem is, however, plyer-generated sub's never look right somehow, very sharp against an otherwise filmic-grainy background. They just don't work. Add to that the many cases of such captions either being changed or missed off altogether on more than one release (in both R2 and R1), the lack of effort put in to match the new captions to the original fonts or position or size, or even attempt to make them appear on screen the way they did in the theatrical version (for instance, "typed" or "teleprinted" , or "whooshing" on to the screen to name but three methods) and the whole process seems like an exercise in laziness. The wonderful font used in the LotR films, and preserved on the R1 releases, has been replaced on the R2 by a nasty, blocky white text, that drags you out of the film. There must be some kind of artistic (and cheap) compromise that suits all parties.

 

[Steve Christou]

Oh really? Well I find your excuse for not wanting the region 2 sp.ed ridiculous, come on you should be more than happy that there's an option to remove captions and subtitles from the frame and see the image without, as someone who loves taking screengrabs I almost wish the credits were player-generated too. Oh and here's a smiley.

 

[RichardCrowther]

Er, thanks. I think.

 

[Douglas R]

I don't know exactly why Walton's score was dropped - according to Tony Thomas's book Music From the Movies, UA executives listened to the music and said "the music stinks get someone else". The film came out at a time when the dramatic symphonic score was going out of fashion and I suspect that UA decided to go for a more "pop" score which was what Ron Goodwin provided. Especially as they no doubt realised that the film was not actually very good and that a catchy tune might help it. Fortunately Laurence Olivier insisted that some of Walton's music be used, threatening to have his name removed from the credits if it was not.

 

[keith/uknuts]

Well i think this is healthy to debate about the different
scores and i injoy all the comments made as they are constructive. But as much as i like the walton music that to my ears sounds oh so very english it dosent quite sound
right during the german scenes.The goodwin score especially the military march for the germans fits the bill perfectly in my opinion.During the film when i had the walton score on there where lots more parts of the film which had no score compared to the goodwin score.Now i know walton only wrote about 30 mins worth or so for this
film and to be honest i think it was a tad too short for my likeing and didnt quite define the film overall.Saying that the battle in the sky part of the score was infact
brilliant and fitting in every respect and nothing else
could have sounded better.

 

[Mike_Richardson]

MGM released a bare-bones R1 version just a year ago, so I severely doubt there's going to be a Special Edition re-issue in the US anytime soon -- especially for a catalog title like this that likely sold very minimal numbers here.

Chances are the Special Edition was geared towards the European market in the first place, and may be exclusive to that region.

 

[Maggi Magg]

I have to agree with keith/uknuts about the score.
Also i found the Walton soundtrack lacked surround activity.
Both in DD and DTS.
I have to put a question mark about having that track on the disc in both flavors taking up precious bitrate.
It would have been enough just in Dolby Surround for my money.
That said MGM should be proud of this release and the PQ is very nice.

 

[Douglas R]

I'm surprised that no-one seems to like the Walton score. I think it is vastly superior to Ron Goodwin's music which is fairly typical of his military-styled, boys own adventure, approach to scoring war films but simply isn't in the same class as Walton.

Walton brings a more serious approach, notably for example as the German bombers approach and bomb East London when his music is suitably menacing. Curiously Goodwin doesn't score these scenes at all. Neither composer uses a lot of music and I think the film could do with more. Nevertheless, apart from that bombing sequence, it's surprising that both composers often supply music for similar scenes. For instance, after one dogfight, a British plane is downed in the sea and both compoers use that moment to introduce music (although that may of course have been suggested by the producer or director).

The film was originally made in mono so it's certainly good that a genuine surround soundtrack has been created for this DVD.

 

[Steve Christou]

William Walton's old fashioned 'classical' approach to music scoring didn't fit this film at all and wouldn't have seemed out of place in Henry V. Ron Goodwin's was far more upbeat, stirring and appropriate, the filmmakers themselves thought so, and so it seems do some of the Walton fans on this thread.
At least you have the option to only watch the film with Walton's classical renderings, instead of Ron Goodwin's famous 'military-styled' themes.

 

[Anthony Neilson]

I just got this recently and would agree that it's a great package overall. I haven't yet watched the film but my one complaint (based on the first twenty minutes) is that there's some fairly drastic Edge Enhancement going on.
It's almost like a Ready-Brek glow around the characters whenever they're silhouetted against the sky (apologies to non-UK readers who probably have no idea what that means - it means the E.E is BAD !)

 

[Steve Christou]

Oh wow! I've watched it twice already and noticed no such thing, maybe your tv needs fine tuning? My copy was flawless. I thought you guys were going to wait for the NTSC edition, what happened?

 

[Anthony Neilson]

That's odd, Steve. I'm pretty sure the problem isn't with my TV. It looks like a straightforward example of E.E.
It might just be my disc but I've never heard of such a problem before.

Anyone else agree / disagree ?

 

[David Allen]

Mark,

Could you explain further your comments regarding Anvil and their comments to you about their role in the Battle of Britain DVD soundtracks? Could you post their email to you on this forum?

-------
After posting my review for "Battle", I got a very nice email from Mike Anscombe at Anvil Post Production who put me right on a few things that I'd got wrong (thank you Rykodisc's liner notes for the soundtrack CD!). Anvil Studios are still operating and worked closely with MGM on the restoration of the movie soundtracks (not least the Walton score).