"TERMINATOR: The Sarah Connor Chronicles" Season 2 Thread (1 Viewer)

[Inspector Hammer!]

Me either and this is a point I meant to bring up. She has proven more than anything that she is one tough nut to crack and to have a piece of metel penitrate that skull of her's is highly unlikely. And while we're on the subject of her "injuries", it seems that getting hit and pinned between two trucks fixed her limp as well lol.

I wouldn't even want her around now, if she can go berserk like that once who's to say she won't crack up and turn bad again out of nowhere or the next time she get's into a scuffle with a terminator who hits her on the head?

The termie chick is whacked!

 

[Ken Chan]

Terminator canon is problematic because the movies were not entirely consistent, but that's wrong

T-1000 and T-800 are the series. Model 101 looks like Arnold. In T3, he's a T-850, Model 101 (not clear what the series upgrades are). Robert Patrick is some other model. Given that the T-1000 was the one and only advanced prototype, it didn't matter as much. Of course, you can strike the "one and only" part now -- we're making a TV show!

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

That's fine for the "real world", but why must that apply to the invented rules of this universe? Perhaps it was reaching that point of "human" conciousness, that self-awareness that we call a soul, that caused Skynet to destroy the world.

 

[Mike Soltis]

I thought the T-1000 reveal was a bit soon. They should have strung that out for a couple weeks at least. But this is typical of the dumbed-down and desperate writing we have now...hurry up and hook 'em.

After all it is Fox...

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

It doesn't go that deeply for me, Adam. Skynet destroyed the world because it was a thoughtless machine bent on it's own self preservation and decided to wipe us out, in the words of Kyle, "in a micro second".

At least a psychotic human KNOWS, somewhere in his mind, that it's wrong to kill someone but does it anyway, the distinction between that and Skynet is that it never understood from the get go what was right and wrong, it expended no thought at all to wiping us out.

In short, it had no conscience whatsoever.

I'm trying to see it from your perspective but it's hard to leave behind the baggage of how I feel about machines in my real life and the way they're depicted on the show, it's very hard for me to separate them in my head.

In short, for our argument, you think more like John and I tend to think more like Sarah.

As for John reactivating Cameron, he has to be smarter than that, he had no idea that Cameron would be okay again when he revived her, even if the gun wasn't loaded she could have gotten hold of him and broke his neck before Sarah and the others had a chance to react.

I can understand all the subtext your talking about with regards to John but again it didn't go that deeply for me, you saw John doing something noble that speaks to how he will conduct himself as a leader with empathy as where I saw John do something incredibly reckless that could have resulted in his death thereby destroying all that Kyle, Sarah and the future resistance had been fighting for. Heck, even Cameron herself (I am aware of the oxymoron of constantly calling it "her" even though I know that it isn't human, so that isn't lost on me) stated to Sarah to not allow John to ever do that again.

Dang it, Adam, now you got me goin' and talkin' like I care about this show!

 

[Holadem]

The matter of "machines and feelings" is older than the hills, and has been a staple of Science Fiction since... well... gee. It's seminal to the genre. See BSG for as thorough and in depth an exploration of the subject as you're ever gonna see on TV. So I don't see the need for the grave warnings about religion. The BSG thread was just fine.

I generally agree with you John, about Cameron == toaster. But the beauty of a masterpiece like BSG is that it challenges your assumption and maybe belief sets. It helps that the machine in that show are behaviorally and anatomically indistinguishable from humans, right down to their reproductive functions (and the females toasters vary from serviceable to jaw-droppingly hot! )

--
H

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

Well, you know how things can get here, Holadem, one person says one thing and suddenly it turns into this big thing where moderators get involved.

I only said what I said earlier because that's what it comes down to for me I guess. I believe that we have a soul, an esscense that goes somewhere when we die, something that machines do not possess, we're alive as to where machines can only mimic being alive.

Others milege may vary but that's just where I stand on the matter.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Good! It's not just the qualities as a leader. Assume that there is a God in this universe and Skynet is his mechanism for a biblical act of judgment, punishment for humanity's excesses. It would explain why all efforts by both sides to preempt the future war fail time and time again; God wills the war to happen. In this scenario, John Connor is essentially Noah, an instrument of God's will to preserve the purest and best of humanity to rebuilt the world. Within this framework, John's reckless actions are in fact acts of faith and awarded accordingly.
Mind you, this isn't what I think is going on. Or even necessarily an intended perspective for what's going on. But considering the religious overtones of the show -- the religious FBI agent is spared, the T-1001 speaks of Babylon, etc. etc. -- it's one possible explanation for what's going on. That being said, my favorite religious bent is when the religious predestination angle is married to scientific, logical explanations.

 

[DavidJ]

Wow, I was planning on popping in here with a few quick thoughts on the season two opener and find that there is quite a debate going on. I'll have to come back later for that as I need to get to bed...

I thought the opener was "eh." I just re-watched season one on Blu-ray and really enjoyed it the second time around. I even got my wife into she didn't want to watch it season on tv). We were both really looking forward to it and I was underwhelmed. From the season preview, it looks like it will pick up.

 

[Jeff Cooper]

Actually the default appearance of the T-1000 is not Robert Patrick, it's a metal blob. It only took Robert Patrick's shape because that is the very first human it came across in the movie. Remember there actually was a good human cop Robert Patrick that got killed investigating an "Electrical Disturbance".

 

[Citizen87645]

That's not the case either because Patrick didn't play the cop that got killed and the T-1000 had the Patrick appearance before it made physical contact with him.

If the we follow the logic presented in T3, then the T-1000 form was probably based on some human figure involved with the military.

 

[Zack Gibbs]

Yeah, T-1000 appears as naked Robert Patrick when he arrives in the time bubble, and he always reverts back to that specific appearance.

 

[Jeff Cooper]

Ah, my bad. I remembered that scene differently.

 

[Ken Chan]

Also, don't forget that the beginning of T2 is setup to be like T1: a Terminator is sent to kill John, and a lone protector was sent to save him. It's not until the shooting starts that we are supposed to be pleasantly surprised by the twist, that Arnold is actually the good guy. Unfortunately, all the advance publicity gave that away So the cop could not have been played by Robert Patrick; and he wasn't.

 

[Josh Dial]

Indeed, but weren't you referencing John?

I think it would almost be unbelievable for him to NOT, at the very least, befriend Cameron (and the "love" he may or not feel for her need not be sexual). It's a creation programmed by him, for him. One would hope Cameron would be able to interact and "reach" John on a level even Arnold's model couldn't, otherwise, what was the point of sending back that specific model? I'm sure there were more advanced captured and repgrammed models available to be sent back.

Once again, it seems to me completely in-line with the series and its characters, to have John feel for Cameron, and Sarah to hate them all.

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

Adam, I guess the bottom line is that it, like anything else, all comes down to interperatation and point of view of the viewer.

And again, you John, me Sarah, you want to befriend them and I just wanna' blow em' up.

BTW, did it seem like Summer put some weight on this season? I thought she was too skinny and frail looking in season one but she looked more filled out in the premiere, I actually bought her as a Terminator more this time which is good.

 

[Citizen87645]

I thought most of that was the prosthetics filling out her face, but in the last year I haven't been able to help but notice she's started looking more womanly than her days on Firefly. Which is a plus.

 

[todd s]

You know a completely different way to end the show would be this. Instead of either they stop the machines from taking over or not. How about a situation where the machines still are created. But, because of some reason. They are non-hostile to humans. The old "Why can't we get along" scenario. And John and Cameron can be a part of why.

 

[Doug Schiller]

I have a question.
I started watching the show last year but gave up after the 90210 meets the Fugitive stuff started happening every week.
Does the Summer Glau character heal herself or will she look more battered as each show goes on?

 

[Quentin]

Ah yes, but THAT IS THE CORE THEME OF THAT SHOW. Are they toasters vs. are they human and the question of what sentient life is. The 12 are also fully biological. So, while they have been called toasters, it is a misnomer. No metal there. They bleed, they die, they give birth, etc. The line is purposefully blurred in order to explore the theme.

The theme of Terminator has never been (and IMO never should) about the cybernetic 'what is life' question. It's first and foremost about fighting a future war in the past and secondarily about how choices today affect our future.

The John Connor of that universe is not stupid enough to fall in love with a robot. And, in fact, she should not even have fully functional biological 'parts'. Her breasts should be armored and her parts should look like a Barbie. Terminators of this type are metal exoskeleton covered by flesh. We even saw a Terminator in this show cover himself in goo that turned into flesh. That does not make for functioning organs.