Taking DVD Requests For SVS PB2-Ultra Review (1 Viewer)

[Edward J M]

Last night the PB2-Ultra took Reloaded at Reference Level and shrugged it off.

The mastering level on Reloaded is actually conducive to playing at/near Reference - a pleasant surprise compared to some overcooked DVDs that just blare at -13.

 

[Ronneil Camara]

Hi John,

I love the part very much when the JAP dropped the bomb and pierced the upper deck of the ship downto the other bomb compartment. The shot was taken outside the ship when it blew. That part really shook my house and a little of my vision. YAYKS!!!

Ronneil

 

[frank manrique]

How about U-57 (depth charges)?

or Mel Gibson's The Patriot (real black powder cannons volleying in a real acoustical environment--the first battlefield scene--produces truly concussive bass output that's more felt than heard!)?

...and what about tchaivkosky's 1812 Overture (CD) on Telarc's label (the finale will sock you in the stomach...not to mention setting the legs in your pants wildly flutering and flapping! At least that's what my 16-46 octet does when put to work)?...

-THTS

"...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."

 

[Jon-C]

Ed,
I can imagine the look on your face after the FLASHBACK scene

...


As soon as you FEEL the bass of the opening title, you know you're in for one helleva ride !

 

[Edward J M]

Yep, the needle on the B&K swept up to 119 dB (C-weighted fast at the seat) at the very end of that scene, and I probably at least raised my eyebrows.

I watched Revolutions last night at RL and again the PB2-Ultra had no problems whatsover. Even when things got very hairy and the bass was intense and sustained, the PB2-U still stayed very dynamic, keeping sound effects distinct and separate, and making the stretch for that last dB of deep impact whenever the sound track called for it.

 

[Lee-c]

frank manrique: Are you saying you have 8! 16-46's??

If so, that's just insane! In very wonderful sort of way.

 

[Lee-c]

Ed, since you have such a super capable subwoofer, it would be interesting to see how it performs
near it's upper limits.

Can this sub with the mighty Ultra drivers handle the particularly bass-potent moments in
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring at full reference? Or Star Wars: Attack of the Clones
at reference? Almost no sub could, but yours might be able to. Or if, upon watching your
drivers excursions as you ratchet up the master volume 1dB at a time, you think you can't
reach full reference on these movies, you could tell us how far you were able to take it.
Since this is the ultimate single SVS sub next to the B4+, it would great to see what it can really do
when unleashed.

Also, the superb church organ music that was recorded by that fine fellow on the S&V forum
would be great to see some accurate numbers on.

Those would be my requests for the PB2-Ultra test.

 

[Edward J M]

Hi Lee:

As we've discussed a few times around here, Reference Level is more of a playback volume than it is an arbitrary Master Volume setting. Yes, we calibrate to RL with Avia, etc., but the mastering levels on DVD are so disparate that no one MV setting works equally for all DVDs.

Underworld is a perfect example. I can hit RL playback levels at -13 on the MV. On other DVDs, it takes a much higher setting.

I can tell you this, the PB2-Ultra can easily hit RL playback levels (115+ dB bass peaks) at the seat in my room. Honestly, RL is usually a bit too loud for comfortable extended listening. I prefer anywhere from -10 to -5 RL depending on the DVD.

The room definitely starts to complain before the sub does - things start to buzz and rattle, despite my best attempts at exorcism.

 

[Lee-c]

Ed: I know what you mean, -6 or -5 is about as loud as I like to go on an intense action movie.
Not because of the bass necessarily, but just because *everything* is VERY LOUD at that level
and going beyond that it becomes a bit much. And as you point out, it does vary quite a bit
from movie to movie. When I said "reference" in regard to the above movies, I didn't mean
it in the strictest sense because they both run hot. But as in, if you set the master volume to
what is the DD reference point on your gear, could the sub handle it. I think even the PB2-Ultra
might not be able to, but corner loaded and if the viewing position wasn't too far away from the sub
and in a room your size, hmm, maybe...

Of course, the only way to know is to give it a go. Certainly I would not consider these volume
levels tolerable for most people. But when one has one of the very finest subwoofers on earth,
it is extremely interesting to know what it's really capable of. And it could certainly come
in handy knowing where the real limit is if one wanted to demo a movie to someone and
absolutely stun them with what the sub can do when running full bore.

 

[Edward J M]

Sorry Lee - not going to abuse the merchandise looking for the "limits" of the PB2-Ultra. Maybe if it were your $2,500.....

The real point of measuring DVD playback levels is not to see how loud the sub can play per se. It's to demonstrate the enormous dynamic range and non-compressed clean output of the sub at any reasonable playback level.

When the going gets rough, lesser subs give up the ghost and puke their guts out or severely compress the peaks. In comparison, the PB2-Ultra stays completely composed and is totally unflappable, clean, and dynamic, even at Reference Level playback volumes. You can't ask much more from a sub than that and the PB2-Ultra delivers in spades.

 

[KeithY]

Lee-c,

I did ATOC at RL with my 2U...don't know all the tech
terms, but it was incredible! Have done a few others too,
like U571, We Were Soldiers, Blackhawk Down, Gladiator and
SuperSpeedway Mach II ed and Toy Story 2. I got beat bad
by this sub can't wait for my wife to leave so I can put
the next disc in.

 

[Steven_E_S]

Hi Ed,
Are you going to be checking out how the PB2 Ultra does with 2 channel stereo at all? My PB2 Ultra should be shipping sometime this week (I hope) and I'll be using it for 2 channel with Klipsch Khorns. I'm really starting to get excited and can't wait. The Khorn themselves will shake the room quite well but drop off pretty fast below 35hz. Have any opinion on this? Still not sure how I'll be setting up the Ultra. 25hz stock or 20hz with 1 port plugged. I have been known rarely to drive my Khorn close to 120 SPL while showing them off without a sub. Listening at 100dbs is quite normal for me though but mostly I listen in the 90's. Someday I'll get into HT but for now it's still 2 channel.
Thx'
Steve

 

[Lee-c]

Ed: Hehe, I know exactly what you mean. I certainly wouldn't want any risk to be taken
with your cool SVS sub (perish the thought). Which is why I made reference to the method you
mentioned using of monitoring the drivers to ensure no bottoming would happen. But, yeah,
I'd be nervous, too. No problem.

You do make a good point, about playing movies back at a level where you would actually watch it at.
Of course, then the question arises, if all DVD movies that run hot are to be turned down on the
master volume to a point where they roughly equal where DD ref. is supposed to be at, then why test
the sub against these various movies? I mean, there is absolutely no doubt that a sub
as excellent as the PB2-Ultra can handle 115dB-118dB peaks (in a reasonable room) every time
and sound great while doing it. The only real variable is that some movies go above and beyond ref.
and then the uncertainty begins.

What's your opinion on all that?

Hmm, it seems KeithY may have done some of this extreme testing already.

KeithY: What are the dimensions of your room where you played these movies at ref setting?
By "2U", I assume you mean PB2-Ultra? You mean to say you have your system calibrated to Dolby Digital
reference level with a SPL meter and actually watched those movies you listed with your master volume
control on your receiver set to where DD full reference volume level should be according to
your calibration?

 

[Edward J M]

I think maybe the better question is....if a DVD is mastered far hotter than RL, is that sufficient justification to exclude it from review? Clearly, the answer is no.

I'm not a slave to the MV setting, and I don't get hung up on the huge disparity in DVD mastering levels. I always list the calibration method, the amount the sub is running hot (if any), the decoding technology (DD or DTS), and the Master Volume setting. With those four pieces of information, you should be able to draw at least some rough parallels to your own listening environment and compare notes.

 

[Lee-c]

I agree. And I think think one of most important aspects to these tests is finding out just how
much hotter than ref. some of these movies are. So a guy watching the movie doesn't get blind-sided
by bass that's way off the chart when he has his volume turned up at or near ref. Which, of course,
could result in speaker/sub damage.

Your little run-in with Underworld being an example. Fortunately you had the PB2-Ultra,
so no sweat. But I bet it got your attention.

And by the way, that is just crazy how hot that movies runs. Is it like that in the mid-range, too,
or just the deeper bass?

 

[ToddTho]

I haven't seen this yet,how about the car crash scene on Final Destination 2?Theres a dts soundtrack too!

 

[Zack_R]

Not a movie request but I think this would be helpful in evaluating the spl during the movies in your review.

You may be planning to do this but here goes. I'd like to compare the max THD findings during the nearfield test with the prime listening spot .

For example if a 20, 22, 25, etc. hz signal yields 10% distortion at 100 db nearfield then this same volume equals "x" at the seat.

I think in knowing "x" we may be able to determine what frequencies you are hearing / feeling most in a high impact movie scene.

I know you are planning to run FR at the seats but wasn't sure just how loud you will be taking them or if THD would be considered.

 

[KeithY]

My room is roughly 5000cubed, with 14ft vaulted ceilings, large openings into the living/dining rooms and 2 hallways.
Have had the PB2 Ultra for just over 2wks, my system is calibrated at 80Hz using AVIA and a RS SPL meter.

I read last night that full DD reference is 85Hz. I'll give that a try tonight, since my wive won't home. So I watched at -5
of reference then :b At this level is where I can realy feel/hear the difference from my previous PB2+.

My PB2Ultra custom stained to coordinate with the decor

 

[Edward J M]

Hi Zack:

Running THD in all three states of tune from 16-40 Hz is extremely time consuming. I just didn't have the time to run a second complete data set at the seat.

With that said, I did have the same thoughts you did. SPL varies with the square of the distance, but room gain largely compensates for this loss below 30 Hz - at least in my room.

I decided to run THD at the listening position at 20 Hz in the 20 Hz tune just to see if the PB2-Ultra can deliver RL bass at 20 Hz and above at the listening position. I chickened out at 114-115 dB and THD still hadn't hit 10% (around 8% IIRC).

The reason I quit was because everything in the room that wasn't bolted or screwed down was rattling and buzzing (and this can also give false positives on harmonic distortion spectra), and indeed the entire room had gone into what I call "room lock" and the walls and windows were going into a sympathetic resonance mode.

I think it's safe to say the PB2-Ultra can deliver clean RL bass at the seat at 20 Hz and above - at least in my room - and that the house begins to complain long before the subwoofer does.

 

[Lee-c]

KeithY: Yes, that is correct. Using Avia you have to get to 85dB on the SPL meter to have it calibrated
for DD Reference Level. Then a movie would have to be played at whatever number on your receiver's
master volume dial that equals the DD ref. calibration point to play at the level you described
in the earlier post.