Syndicated cuts, music substitutions..it's all good (1 Viewer)

[JohnMor]

Of course, taken to that extreme, then not even a single season of I Love Lucy on DVD is complete, as they use the syndication opening & closing credits of the heart on satin, as well as the syndication commercial fade outs. Not just the video, but the music too. Granted, on the 6th Season set they gave you option of the original openings, but not the closing credits, which remain the syndicated versions.

 

[george kaplan]

Well that's just a ridiculous oxymoron. By any reasonable definition, a pan & scan movie is most certainly incomplete.

 

[MarkHastings]

Complete:

Usage Note: Complete is sometimes considered absolute like perfect or chief, which is not subject to comparison. Nonetheless, it can be qualified as more or less, for example. A majority of the Usage Panel accepts the example His book is the most complete treatment of the subject.

 

[Linda Thompson]

Regarding ther P&S / hamburger analogy...here's a bit more accurate scenario:



But suppose I trimmed around the edges of your burger...the bun, the meat, and anything else which just happened to be positioned near the outer edge...and then served it to you as the "complete hamburger" which you, quite reasonably, assumed you would be receiving when you placed your order?

Would you accept it? And would you still consider it "complete"?

 

[MatthewA]

Well unfortunately in the case of I Love Lucy, those elements do not exist except in video transfers of beat-up 16mm prints. I wish they would give you a choice to view it as it aired originally (via seamless branching), but unless decent 35mm elements of openings and closings on all 180 shows turn up, that's unlikely to happen. If it did exist in that form and was unused, I would be disappointed. They did, however, go to great lengths to restore other missing footage to the body of many of the episodes.

I'm talking about stuff that still exists. Network versions of 20 year old sitcoms are highly unlikely to be gone forever.

 

[MarkHastings]

I don't need imagination, I have have facts to back me up here.

A series of shows is a set number of shows. A complete series of syndicated shows is a series of syndicated shows. The episodes may not be complete, but that doesn't rule out the fact that the series is complete.

Did you read the usage post? Everyone likes to post the defintion of the word "Complete" but they fail to read the usage of the word. The usage can be used to loosely describe something. Through it's 'usage' there is nothing wrong with saying "A Complete Series of Syndicated Epsiodes" - The usage allows this to be a true statement.

As it states, "Complete" doesn't always have to be used to mean 100% of all it's parts. Like I said before, even though the syndicated shows are not complete, according to it's usage, you can still call the series a complete series.

 

[Linda Thompson]

P&S cuts material away from the edges and leaves the middle, exactly the same as trimming off the edges of the hamburger in my example

You just said: "Just as if you cut away part of the hamburger, it is no longer a complete hamburger."

Yet you also state that a P&S DVD (in which the edges are trimmed away, exactly like the hamburger which you admit is incomplete without the edges which have been trimmed away) is "still a complete movie" and even "most definitely a complete movie."

Those statements are total contradictions. Please explain your reasoning.

 

[MarkHastings]

Linda, cutting part of the hamburger away is not the same thing as P&S with a film. That's why it's not a contradiction on my part.

Cutting part of the hamburger is similar to cutting scenes from a movie. In that respect, yes, the burger is no longer complete and the film is no longer complete.

IMO, taking the bun away is similar to P&S. The burger is still a complete burger as the movie is still a complete movie.

 

[ScottR]

Actually, with I Love Lucy, all of the seasons except 1 includes the original commercial transitions. And for that first season, the music for those transitions was restored.

 

[cafink]

Actually, that's exactly what it means. Your irrelevent "usage note" certainly doesn't say otherwise.

 

[AnthonyC]

See, you're forgetting about a crucial part of that second quote in the first quote: "the most complete." Yes, the first season set of The Cosby Show is the most complete version of those episodes currently available. But it's not complete.

"Complete" and "the most complete" mean two entirely different things. Using the book analogy, if a professor writes an expansive book on the Civil War, it could be considered the most complete book about the Civil War. But unless it includes every single tidbit, it is not the complete book about the Civil War.

 

[Dave Mack]

All I know is I tried to watch "The Odd Couple" marathon in NYC a couple of years back and the epsiodes were so butchered they were pretty much unwatchable. You could hear the cuts in the laugh track whenever they made an edit. It was jarring as hell. And also, complete small scenes were gone.
In "The Simpsons" there are jokes where the punchline is removed and vice versa. I recently got the (Thank god) uncut Roseanne Season 2 and after watching, Tivoing and comparing the epsiodes was absolutely amazed at how much was chopped. It's like saying you could edit a song to remove all of the space between lines and verses and it would be ok because you're still getting all of the words. In music, like in comedy, it's also about the space between the words. The settups, the pauses, it's all timing. When youy arbitrarily chop it up to speed things along you are changing the piece and IMHO, ruining it.

but what do I know...?

 

[MarkHastings]

You guys are right and I'm wrong.

 

[RoryR]

Syndicated Cuts do matter, I wouldn't settle for a movie with scenes cut so I won't settle for a TV show either.

Music Replacement, I couldn't care less - I want the shows not the songs, I'd buy the soundtrack if I only cared about the music. Its going to happen with The Wonder Years, and I'd buy it even if every song was replaced. If you care so much go buy the songs on CD and cue it up with your DVD player.

 

[Malcolm R]

you should realize that you might be missing some great tv on dvd.
Not really. There are far more TV sets that I'd like to buy, than I can actually afford to buy. So, if I choose not to reward studios who put out sloppy products, there are plenty of other choices on which to spend my money.

I'd love to own ALF on DVD, but will not purchase the butchered sets out now. I'd rather go without, and there are many other sets more deserving of my cash.

 

[RoryR]

Is there ever any point buying syndicated sets? I mean, you can just record them from TV. I know I would do that if a complete series turned out butchered.

 

[Dave Mack]

true

 

[JohnMor]

Yes, because in some cases the shows aren't being aired anymore: that's the reason I purchased the sets of The Doris Day Show, which I'm pretty sure are the syndicated versions. The DVDs are the only game in town for seeing that series.

 

[Ethan Riley]

Well, you can't just say, 'oh you should have taped the shows when they originally aired if you want them complete.' That's very unfair. Half the shows we talk about aired before videotape was available for home use. And just because you like a show, doesn't mean you taped it from day one. And another thing: for the most part, dvd is higher in quality than anything you can make at home.

 

[MarkHastings]

I pay for cable in order to get those syndicated shows and before DVR's, I paid for VHS tape to record those shows, so why then why is it now forbidden to buy them on DVD (which is MUCH better quality than anything TV can deliver) when it's perfectly ok to pay for methods of recording off TV at sub-par quality????

I mean, if I'm going to subject myself to recording them off TV, then transfer them to DVD-R, why put all that effort into it when I can just spend $40 for an entire series that's already on DVD??? I guess I have better things to do with my time - and I'm not so cheap as to do all that work and effort when I can just buy a set that's already done all the work for me