SVS releases news on bookshelf & center (2 Viewers)

[John Garcia]

I don't really see a problem with DiAppolito designs at all. How often do people really sit 30 or more degrees off axis to experience some of that combing effect? All 5 of my speakers are Identical MTMs and I don't notice any combing. 3 pairs might solve that one for those who have a problem with a center (6.1).

 

[SVS-Ron]

Kevin,

The MTM (mid-tweeter-mid driver) arrangement, which is quite probably the most popular layout in the industry, can indeed have "off-axis" issues (where you are not sitting where the speaker is pointing), especially on phase cancellation and frequency response (FR) but we did several things to minimize any negatives (one thing you noted already. Some other things are less obvious).

Of course as most all speakers there will be an on-axis "sweet spot" but given +/- 15deg is pretty standard for centers, which allows pretty flexilble placement and seating options, we felt (and still do) that "on-axis" frequency response (among other things) was paramount, but watched the MTM performance very closely in other regards.



In this price range we feel this is about as good as it gets for quasi-anechoic performance. The rotating base for the center helps on the horizontal sound image of course.
I'm not at liberty to talk about crossover points, but can say we used some pretty costly components to keep things clean even at high SPLs. This is no "off the shelf" design but given a more or less classic layout, stuck to the basic premise that most consumers will sit in the usual sort of room we see every day.

And while we are working on the upscale speaker sets that might utilize other drivers in different arrays, I can't say if the MTM layout will hold there. Additional finishes are a given though.


Ron Stimpson

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Ron- Good to know. I'd be curious as to what "less obvious" things you did.


It doesn't take up to 30 deg. If you read the speaker reviews that S&V does, combing in a badly designed MTM center channel can occur at greater than 15 deg. Plus, some people do have their home theaters set up with the long dimension of the room parallel to the display and not perpendicular to it.

 

[John Garcia]

Well, that makes more sense and a key factor there would be badly designed (definitely seen those...). My speakers are still quite flat off axis both horizontally and vertically, so I would say they wouldn't fall into the category of badly designed. They take a noticable dip about 5kHz at 30 degrees (their data shows them at 10, 20, 30, 40 and 50 deg. off axis), but the midrange remains quite clean in all cases. The vertical off axis remains very flat, until his most extreme measurement, which is ~2ft above the original 1m test point.

I would expect SVS isn't just slapping these guys together, so I won't complain about the center. It's not the cener I'm interested in anyway...

You could also do a PB-10 + 2 pairs of sats in a 4.1 setup...

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Nice FR for a nerd, maybe. Can they be ordered with a hump around 100Hz and a broad dip in the presence region to make them more smooth 'n musicalish?

 

[Robert_Gaither]

I was assuming this but the thing is that you have a 2.0 setup but no LCR package for the future upgrade (Do you think for one dang minute they want to stop at a stereo pair after listening? ). I usually tell people when they get into hometheater to get the best LCR their money will let them (dialogue will draw them in), get a good sub next, and if budget must be sacrificed do it to the rear speakers (but if they can wait to buy another set exactly like their mains). To quote Eric Cartman "Ron, you're breakin' our balls".:wink:

 

[Warren_Sc]

Hi-

...just found this thread. I posted this over at AVS.
(PS I forgot how mellow this site is compared to AVS) The HT is Ron's (as was the beer).
---
Okay... As Ron said I stopped by this place to pick up something and the next thing you know 2.5 hours went by as I listened to the new SVS HT speakers. Lucky me, I happened to have my demo stuff with me in the car!

I will try to describe my listening experience. The first picture is where I heard them. The room has two rows of those futons, and some room behind for a nice walkway and some subs. I sat in the second row for most of my listening.

The fit and finish of these speakers are solid. Ron likes to point out there are no seams... because there are no seams... just nice clean lines. People may criticize the black, but I would rather have something understated than to have wood-colored stickers on my speakers. (In fact, since the cat shred the speaker socks on my mains I have been running them nekkid... similar black finish). There is no worry you might mis-handle these speakers expose the wood underneath the skin. The binding posts look heavy-duty.

The master volume on the Denon 3805 was typically set from -10db to 0db. We watched all of the movies at 0db. I'll assume that 0db is reference level.

In my opinion, classic jazz from the 50s and 60s is one of the best ways to test a speaker set-up. There are a few features I listen for. First, the tracks I listen to have great walking bass lines. When the bass is featured, you can hear the performance around the cross-over of the system as the bass-line walks up and down it. I listen for holes, bass-overhang, and presence, as well as articulation. When the rest of the band is playing, I make sure I can still hear the bass. Next, I listen for the sizzle and airiness of the high-hat and ride cymbals. Finally, the horns fill in the rest of the audio spectrum. I like to hear the imaging and smooth sound.

In particular, I like to use Miles Davis "Kind of Blue" and John Coltrane "Giants steps. The imaging on these speakers were great. "So What" feature Paul Chambers' bass talking, and the band answering. It really builds up before they get to the improve section. Every instrument was well-imaged and cleanly represented. On these old recordings there are a few notes Coltrane's sax put out that can fry a system and sound shrill... (I'd imagine the note is falling somewhere around a typical cross-over point and is tending to push the smaller speaker). These speakers did not flinch. Did I mention we had the system CRANKED? I had the same experience with "Giant Steps", "Spiral", "Blue in Green", etc. Solid imaging, smooth response... no instrument in the way of any other.

Another favorite piece of demo material I like to use is Dead can Dance "Into the Labyrinth". The track I use is "Yulunga (spirit dance)". (Before I go any further, no, I am not a hippy or a beatnik... I love Rock and Rap... these demo items make it easy to identify speakers' weaknesses.) This track really tests the dynamics and imaging of a speaker. There are a ton of instruments ranging from deep strings, to erie reeds, to haunting chants... and a BIG drum. (feel free to name all of the instruments if you know them.) I swear the front stage is divided into 9 discrete, imaging spots. The track builds up over 2 1/2 minutes, adding tension before the big drum kicks in and signals the arrival of all of the instruments. These SVS speakers passed this image torture test with flying colors. There are also a few "shrill" and "distortion" tests that can break cheaper speakers. Again, solid imaging, smooth response... no instrument in the way of any other.

Next we put in the Blue Man Group. This is the first time I had heard this disc... and the really Big Drum! We listened to this with the MV at reference level. We really wanted to pop these sealed speakers. When material is cranked this loud I like to listen for compression. That did not happen. These speakers maintained their composure nicely, and showed their dynamic range.

Now to movies... all at reference levels... Let me note the rear channels were not the SVS speaker. It was a direct-fire speaker of which I do not know the brand.

Master and Commander won an award for the sound... and these speakers showed why. We watched the opening scene (about 15 minutes long). Even with all of the cannon fire and carnage, the center channel kept the dialog clean. Russel Crowe kept his commanding tone. This scene can be tough to handle because of all of the effects and panning. If you remember, before his ship is fired on Captain Jack's 6th sense kicks in. We hear a very subtle sound (over the sounds of the sea) signaling him to look through the 'scope on more time. If your speakers are stressed, you will miss it. The SVS speaker showed their grace and played the sound cleanly and clearly. The active panning was really neat to listen to. I really liked this center speaker and it matches well with the mains.
(We used the DD track.)

We also listened to the Intro to Toy Story 2, and the Monsters Inc. trailer. I loved the way the narrator (I forget his name) sounded on the MI trailer... again, this center speaker is well done. Whereas the M&C has a lot of active panning in a realistic sense, he TS2 intro has a lot of panning in an animated sense... if I don't make sense... TS2 has exaggerated panning, which is neat to listen to, while M&C has subtle, but well-separated panning. Anyway, the speakers sounded great, with clicks and clacks popping out of the right spots. "To infinity and beyond" was never lost in the shuffle.

As I said, we listened to a lot of material over 2 1/2 hours. My ears were not fatigued in any way. I may be repeating myself (as I am not a writer)... solid imaging, smooth response, passed the "shrill test", matched well with the sub, clean, crisp sound, well-done center... this package is great! I am glad the 5.1 set was not available a few years ago because my wife would have not let me spend as much as I have.

I've been typing all morning... feel free to ask any questions and I will try to answer them. I did not stop by to listen to these speakers... and I am glad I got to hear them. For those of you questioning why SVS chose this "entry-level" product as their entrance into non-sub speakers, you've got to hear them. There's gonna be some competition in this segement... and retail has nothing on these speakers!

 

[Warren_Sc]

One of the things I like about the SVS speakers compared to some of the other brands is they make no apology for their finish. It is a nice, simple black instead of vinyl (simulated wood, or color). To me, the black is an understated "keepin' it real". Your preferences may differ.

 

[Kevin_Graham]

After a long hiatus from the HTF I just found out that SVS is making speakers in addition to their subs. I am thrilled to hear this as I would love to replace my five B&W speakers with SVS speakers that perform well with my 20-39 PC-Plus. Ron is there any chance we can get a hint of what you're considering for the Plus series of speakers? Are you leaning towards towers in front or...? What price range are you aiming for?

 

[SVS-Ron]

Kevin,

There's not a whole lot we can say now, other than I just saw some pics of one tweeter we'll be evaluating hard. The link for more will be here:

http://www.svsound.com/products-spks.cfm

And of course our News page. I expect it will be weeks, perhaps even months before we can divulge prices but a MTS-01 5.1 system with, a ball-park of 2-3X what the SBS-01 5.1 system costs probably won't be too far off. The PB12-Plus and PC+ subs will be logical pairings and included in various package options so you can probably do the math from there.

And "MTS" stands for "Mid-Tower Speaker", so that should provide some other hints on form factor ;^) It's a provisional name, but probably it will hold up till release. R/D can still strike out on other design paths but those choices are being winnowed down now.

There's actually more to do than is done on this mid-priced "Plus" oriented speaker/system package but the ball is already rolling. I'd guess that by mid-2006 the picture should be quite clear. Like with our entry level package just released, we know these speakers (and the "LTS" or "Large Tower System" still to follow) are entering a very tough market with some very good products.

We don't expect any of our speaker lines to be the only speaker anyone will consider. In fact we encourage anyone to compare others as best they can. Each new line that is released will be what we're ourselves convinced is the top or with the top products in any given price point. Just being able to say that with a straight face is challenging enough of course. To say "we're gonna slay all comers look out, we're it... everyone else sucks" is just a bit disingenuous and unfair to the many great brands out there I think. You want to know what other speaker brands we have used and know well enough to recommend? Just write us, we're not shy.

Will those other brands increasingly face a tough new competitor themselves? Yes, that's about it in a nutshell. We aim to be the best but well understand, other OEMs, big and small, do too. Consumers are the ones that ultimately benefit the most I hope. We're consumers at SVS ourselves after all (company owners have to listen to whatever we create in other words ;^). When you KNOW that's the case, you make sure you can live with your design choices!

Ron
SVS

 

[Kevin_Graham]

Ron,

I can't wait for the MTS speakers to be delivered to my doorstep! Thanks for the info.

 

[Greg Conti]

Interesting to say the least. I think the next friend who wants me to set up a system may get these. Not many companies making sealed bookshelfs these days. Makes sense though. Who would be running SVS bookshelfs without a SVS sub?

 

[Tim Hoover]

Ron, I've been looking at the SBS system and would like a bit more info about the speakers' physical durability. Due to family issues, I've already lost one of my ceramic Norh 4.0s to attrition, and have slightly damaged another. Is the SBS system small child-friendly?

 

[SVS-Ron]

Tim,

Well ceramic they are not. In fact because I'm an intrepid R/D wannabe, I managed to drop one of the SBS-01 satellites as I was getting it ready for the photographer. I did drop it on carpet and it did fall on one side, but suffice it to say it's a tough little speaker. It's braced and damped inside, the crossover is screwed right to the cabinet and the finish is reasonably durable too. It's the same vaccum vinyl process as used on the PB10-ISD and we've yet to have anyone damage one of those (they aren't as tough as out textured black on subs like the PB12-Plus but immunity to finger prints and the like is nearly as good).

Of course speaker elements would be vulnerable to sharp objects so use of the grills is advised to help mask the "little shiny's". The tweater is soft and can actually be pushed in and it'll pop back out (yes, I tried). As opposed to a metal or stiff plastic cone (with which you push them in, and then cry).

Hope that helps some. No speaker is totally invulnerable to the worst toddler so I have to also recommend placement where access is difficult. Stands for instance are not recommended, but rather shelf or wall bracket placement.

Ron
SVS

 

[David_Rivshin]

I just noticed that Secret's has published their review of the SBS-01 5.1 set. I would have liked more frequency response graphs, especially bookshelf only on and off axis. What they do show agrees with what SVS published before, which is always a good sign, though.

-- Dave

 

[Tim Hoover]

Ron - thanks for the info. Chalk up ceramic speakers to one of those bachelor purchases, and one that I'd like to NOT repeat in the future

 

[Jesse Sharrow]

Well ron. Havnt talked in a while. I am very very excited to see these things. But unfortunatly I have aquired more dunlavy speakers. So I have no use for SVS's. :-D But I may look into them for a killer bedroom system in the future. They look like they would give my dunlavys a run for their money. Well If u get a pair at your house I need to swing by and check em out. Well I shot u an email. Ill talk to u again.

 

[Kevin_Graham]

Any news about the mid-tower line yet?

 

[Jeff Adams]

Just thought that I would give my 2 cents about the SBS-01 sound system. I only picked up the front's L/C/R. For the time being I am still using my PSB's for the surrounds. I have only had the SBS set for 2 days and have had very limited time with them. But all I can say about this very small and extremely affordable package is WOW! I was very scared going with such a small bookshelf speaker as my mains in an open room. I didn't think that they would be able to play loud enough or handle the 140 watts of power that my Marantz SR-9200 would send to them. Well, let me say that they did fabulous on both counts. I was also worried that I was not going to like the smooth, neutral sound that a silk tweeter would produce. I was wrong again. It is a sound that I got used to real quick and am absolutely in love with it. I have always leaned more towards a harsher, brighter sounding tweeter or horn driver. I have been auditioning a lot of different speakers as of late and I was set on Klipsch's new Reference line. I had the Tower RF-82's and the RC-62 as my mains. I really liked them. I was sold and happy.

What brought my attention to the SBS system is that I wanted a new sub to go a long with my new Klipsch speakers and have always wanted and SVS sub. So to the SVS website I went. I saw the SBS set and was very intrigued, I proceeded to read all of the reviews on them and was hooked, especially with the price tag. I couldn't even believe how affordable these were. So I ordered the L/C/R and returned my Klipsch set just yesterday to Ultimate Electronics. The final price on my SBS set was $449.14 delivered! The Klipsch set was $1300. I just save $850 And am putting that towards my new SVS sub. Thank you SVS for putting out such a high quality product at such a spectacular deal. Keep up the great work! I am a loyal SVS customer now.

Anyway, back to my opinion on the sound of the SBS system and forgive me if I ramble on and jump around, I am by no means a professional reviewer or anything.

I started my test of them with some of my favorite cd's first. Cd's that I know and use often as speaker demo material. I listened strictly in stereo. The CD's I used were Chris Botti, Dave Matthews, Mighty Mighty BossTones And Enya. I like all the different instruments that are used in these groups, I feel it really gives the speakers a wide variety of notes. Anyway, I was floored by how good they sounded. I started at -25 on my receiver dial and slowly turned it up to a -5, these speakers held their composure and sounded like they wanted more. The imaging was spectacular. It was such a smooth natural sound that I was not used to coming form horns and metal dome tweeters. I actually find myself liking the sound of this silk tweeter more. Everything was so detailed. I could hear the pluck of guitar strings and the vocals were amazing. I just sat on my couch and closed my eyes. I felt that I was listening to a larger speaker.

Next test was movies. I threw a variety of high octane action at them,Mr & Mrs Smith,The Fast and the Furious, Master & Commander and of course Saving Private Ryan. Once again, they played loud and handled the wide variety of audio without a hiccup. One of my favorite test scenes is the Asteroid chase scene in Star Wars Episode II. There is a lot going on in that scene as well and I like to see how speakers handle the panning of the sound as the ships crosses over each speaker. Everything was very uniform and sounded the way it was intended to.

Conclusion, you really can't go wrong here, the performance is spectacular and the price is beyond affordable. Nothing in this price range even comes close to this system. And I stress "NOTHING" I tried a few different bookshelf set ups from Klipsch,Infinity, Paradigm and NHT. All of these setups were a lot more money and didn't sound as good as the SVS system.

I wanted to commend SVS on a system that was obviously put together with a lot of hard work. I am in audio heaven. I am anxiously awaiting on the MTS system. When that comes out I will move the bookshelves to the rear. Once again guy's, keep building a quality product at an affordable price and I will be an SVS fan forever!