SVS or Build (1 Viewer)

[Rory Buszka]

The point, sometimes, is not to "equal" any design (that is, I'm not going to reverse-engineer an SVS to get that adjustable-tuning thing for my own sub) but instead to get something that's close, or competitive. As far as my sub is concerned, I have never found its limits with program material. That much bass would just be scary.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

You don't have to sell me on the worth (money being way down on my list) of building your own sub...my DIY credentials are quite in order. If you're going to draw a parallel between your sub (which I don't doubt kicks *ss) and PB12+ as you do above, however, you really should come equipped with numbers. Short of that, it's guessing.

The PB12 Ultras I use now are the best subs I've had, exceedingly well-made (maybe tough to tell from pictures). And, no, Tom wouldn't sell me the bare drivers...

 

[John S]

If you can spend a little more.. SVS has dual 12" subs in their B-Stock for $799.00.......

I think I have talked a customer into placing the proder for one.

 

[Lee-c]

For the record, SVS has not "outsourced" it's subs to China.

The only thing they are having done in China is the wood veneer finishes. And that
is only because they couldn't find any shop in the U.S. to apply the kind of high quality
wood finish they want in the quantities they need after the U.S. shop they were using for
a long time stopped doing the finishes for them. And they tried quite hard to find
a replacement shop in the U.S. All the wood-finished sub cabinets are sent back as empty shells
to SVS in the U.S. where all other manufacturing, assembly and testing are done in the SVS shop.

If you get a SVS subwoofer with the fine-textured finish in either black, tan, gray or white,
then those subs are made completely in the U.S. by SVS, *including* the cabinets. So, if you
want your cabinets made in the U.S., then buy one of the SVS subs with the fine-textured finish
and you'll have an American-made cabinet from the ground up.

 

[Ryan Schnacke]

IB does seem to be the ultimate sub. I can't wait for the hot Texas summer to end so I can install mine. But a pair of 12" quattro's is not the way to go (unless you already have a pair laying around). Instead consider higher excursion 15" woofers. The absolute minimum I'd recommend is a pair of the PE IB15's and a 240 watt plate amplifier. That would be $360 (+ shipping) for woofers and amp and it would go almost an octave deeper than the Quatro's at the same SPL.

 

[Rory Buszka]

IMO, the AE Speakers AV series is one of the best platforms on which to build a DIY subwoofer. Also, once the sales of the AV series generate some revenue, John plans to develop another line of woofers that is geared towards DIY efforts with a smaller budget limitation.

 

[Ryan Schnacke]

Agreed. I didn't mean to imply that the AV woofers were 2nd rate. They're probably the best value right now in quality woofers.

I have heard some folks on the IB Cult forum saying that now that John is taking an extraordinary amount of time to fill some orders for IB15's and is difficult to contact (cell phone or email). So I could see how some folks might hesitate to order. I personally wouldn't have a problem so long as I was given a firm shipment date when I place the order.

 

[Brian Tatnall]

So long as TC Sounds is doing the work none of those statements are true.

TC sounds is the subwoofer buildhouse for SVS.

TC Sounds outsources.

TC Sounds subwoofers are assembled in the US, but they are not made in the US.

 

[Lee-c]

Brian Tatnall: TC sounds makes the *drivers* that SVS uses in it's subs, SVS builds the subs in Ohio.
TC Sounds is an American company apparently noted for it's woofers. They build the drivers
to SVS's specs.

And SVS says this about it's ISD driver.

"We doubt you'll find a woof with more features or better performance in this class. How can we be so sure? Because these are made in the USA, just for us."

 

[billybob_jcv]

You can take this cr@p as far as you want to - where do you think the steel in the driver frame comes from? Or the screws used to hold the driver in place? Or the rubber in the driver surround? Or the transformer in the power amp? Or the copper wire in the cables? Good grief, we are living in a global economy - get over it!

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Since their performance is virtually unassailable in a frontal assault, people look for the tiniest chink in the SVS armor. See how far from the topic we are?

I'd likely only buy an AE woofer if I could walk into a store and bring it home.
Still have my original SVC AV12 in a PR box.

 

[Brian Tatnall]

How is that true when indeed that is where the drivers are manufactured?

Concerning TC Sounds without SVS they were more well known for their car audio drivers in the Eclipse lines before SVS. I've been keeping track of the company for awhile now...before SVS.

Now, to clear the air, I don't really care where they are made. I do however have a problem with misinformation. I think SVS makes some great products. From what I've seen the PB-10 is a real zinger.

I've used DIY subs with Adire Tempests, Adire shiva's, Adire Tumults, Styke AV-15's, Stryke HE-s, and a handful of Dayton drivers, some of the Peerless XLS line, Ascendant Avalanche, Ascendant Atlas, Blueprint drivers, and a few others.

DIY subwoofers can be done right and they can outperform some of the best offerings the finished market can provide, however most of the time I think if you are only going to build one sub and keep it for a long time...go with a finished product. It's taken me and the other DIYers I know a long to to find what we want. SVS and similar companies take a lot of the trial and error away.

 

[Parker Clack]

Don:

Sounds like you made an informed decision and it is one I know you are going to be happy with.

Let us know what you think when you get it and I want to see some pictures of it in your HT.

 

[Stephen_Ponte]

Brian - chill out man. Seriously. You don't even know half of the story. Unless you were one of the few that when thru every step of the process to develop, test, and build SVS products, and TC products - you're only speculating.

I'm glad you've been 'keeping track' of TC Sounds, and of SVS for that matter. Enthusiasm is appreciated, while banter and the attempt to spread 'misinformation', is not.

I hope all is well.



-SDP

 

[Brian Tatnall]

Sup spidey, sure things are changing now, how's the move from TC Sounds to SVS going? Liking Ohio? I'm not fully aware of how far along the changes are...sure.

Has what I've been saying been false for the past two years?

I hope all is going well with you too.

Mustatang

 

[Lee-c]

Brian Tatnall: I never said that SVS assembled the drivers, I said they build and assemble the
*subwoofers*, as in as a complete unit. The same way Ford makes cars, that doesn't mean they
make every single part themselves. This is so obvious and so commonly known that it's
needless to say it. But they are still "made by Ford", because without them it's
just a pile of useless parts. And they are still made in the U.S., even if not every single
part in the car is.

TC Sounds is an American company, that doesn't necessarily mean that every single component they
put into their woofers from the steel materials used on up originates in the U.S.

And I said that *SVS* doesn't have any work done in China on their subwoofers, except the wood finishes,
because they could not find anyone in the U.S. to do it any longer. SVS is not responsible for what
one of their U.S. suppliers might do to get some of the materials they need to build the woofers
that SVS uses. I specified that if you want a U.S.-made SVS sub cabinet, then buy only the
fine-textured finish subs. Therefore your "SVS PB Ultra" example (obviously with wood finish)
doesn't even qualify.

If I buy a custom-built bike made from titanium in a U.S. shop, but the titanium tubes
come from England that they need to make the bike properly, does that mean the bike isn't
made in the U.S.??

This is silly, it's a semantic argument, and thus pointless.

 

[John_RO]

The original post mentions that he is interested in a 25-31 PCi, a cylinder sub. Cylinders are much easier to build than boxes. Put very simply, all you have to do is consruct a top plate and a bottom plate out of mdf and mount them in some sonotube.

For the money, you cant go wrong with the 25-31 PCi. Tuning it lower is a personal preference. You get lower extesion at the cost of lower overall output. The 25-31 (baby boomer as I call it) can easily rock the house at 20hz without the lower tune option.

 

[Brian Tatnall]

I think semantic accuracy is important and if you read the FTC site I linked to then you'll find they don't believe semantics are pointless.

For a semantic arguement to become pointless usually people find out they are really saying the same thing. I don't think we are saying the same thing. There are valid semantic differences.

 

[Stephen_Ponte]

Hey Brian - You couldn't be more correct re: things changing. I think Darwin hit the nail on the head.

What you don't understand, is another angle of loudspeaker manufacturing all together. Do you know where 80% of all loudspeakers, and loudspeaker parts are sourced? Did you know that one key component (perm. magnet) to a driver simply cannot be sourced in the US? So where else are you going to go? According the FTC rules, that part cannot be deemed "Made in the USA".

My point is: So what's YOUR point?

You are intently arguing a topic that you clearly don't have a complete understanding of. Loudspeaker manufacturing, running a business, making waffles, whatever...if you don't know the subject completely (and in an objective manner) you demean your credibility.

Look, I know the internet is all about flapping your jaw, but come on man. Being "The Noid" and prodding people just for the sake of your own entertainment gets real old, real quick.
People come to these forums to learn, and help others about the hobby they love; not to make people angry and argue with eachother.


l8r

-SDP

 

[Brian Tatnall]

Stephen,

Sorry, I thought I was clear. My point was when Lee-c wrote, "All the wood-finished sub cabinets are sent back as empty shells to SVS in the U.S. where all other manufacturing, assembly and testing are done in the SVS shop" among other things he did so in error. All assembly hasn't been done at SVS since they have used TC Sounds for a portion of the assembly.

However, the conversation has progressed from that point and Lee-c wrote, "I never said that SVS assembled the drivers, I said they build and assemble the *subwoofers*, as in as a complete unit." I'm totally cool with that since it is accurate. I've got no qualms with Lee-c and was completely willing to let things die, but I'm more than willing to answer your posts, Stephen.

Previously, I asked you "has what I've been saying been false...." and received no reply from you. I imagine/hope if I'm wrong you would take the opportunity to correct me since you were eager to answer the rest of my posts. Your silence speaks louder than your words.

While you may be at the forefront of where SVS is going, your fresh blood there in no way, shape or form changes the way SVS has previously operated since conception. Even if you put SV Subwoofers under your name and make a formal announcement that TC Sounds is no longer the buildhouse because SV Subwoofers is now a bulidhouse in and of itself it won't change where SVS has been since you can only effect where they are going. I'm well aware that the Darwinian ball is rolling.

Concerning that 'other angle' I 'haven't' been thinking about, have you read my posts? When I'm writing about the individual pieces/parts of a driver, how am I NOT looking at it from the angle you suggest? The answer to your question is China. I didn't think it was a big secret and yes I was fully aware of the magnet situation, which is partially why FTC rules start to come into play. Although, I don't think the magnet is a big concern since it is probably in the same category as the propane barbecue grills example, I think the FTC would say: "An unqualified Made in USA claim is not likely to be deceptive because the magnets make up a negligible portion of the product’s total manufacturing costs and are insignificant parts of the final product." As you know magnets don't cost much especially for something like the TV Ultra when compared to the rest of production cost. It would be up to the FTC about the significance of the magnet and magnet cost compared to total cost would of course be driver specific.

However, since for SVS the cabinent is built in China and the driver pieces are built in China, but everything is assembled in the US then it falls into a different category with the FTC.

Stephen, if the forum is a place to not, "make people angry and argue with eachother" why do you not take some of your own medicine since you are very willing to do the same: "you demean your credibility", "flapping your jaw", "being 'The Noid'". If your stance was really what you proclaim it to be then you wouldn't be involved in the conversation the way you are.

Lates,
BJT