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SVS: Love and Hate

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Nick Breckon, May 15, 2004.

  1. Mike Keith

    Mike Keith Well-Known Member

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    This could be a problem with your processor.

    I had the exact same problem with my old Pre/Pro, I have 2-DIY Maelstrom Sonosubs that I knew were capable of insane levels before mechanical limits were reached, but I kept getting that terrible clack during loud bass passages. I assumed the same as everyone hear, that I was just at the limit of the sub so I turned up the subsonic filter on my Mackie sub amp to about 15Hz this of course helped, but I was still left wanting. Then I tried a new Processor for a free trial period, my old processor was a 5yo Sony TA-E9000ES, a good processor. The new processor was a Parasound Halo C2, I threw in Master and commander and let the auto-cal do all the Levels and Distance, turned off all subsonic filters and set the THX settings to THX ultra sub ON and no limiting or compression of the sub frequencies. The first cannon blast was so startling and incredible loud and clean that I thought fore sure I would launch the driver cones across the room, the shockwave concussions from the cannon blast was so strong you could feel the weight compressing your chest cavity. I had never heard bass from my system so clean and loud. Over the next few weeks, I threw everything I had at it to see if it would bottom out, but nothing can phase these subs now, my Behringer FBD can completely stay in the red for several seconds and still no mechanical limitations can be heard. After some experimenting I have determined that this processor has a much cleaner signal, it's the only reasonable explanation, nothing else has been changed, just the processor. I have not bottomed out my subs once since the switch, every DVD that I had made notes about the bass levels in the past were no problem, plus they are so much louder I can hardly stand to be in the room at reference levels.

    I’m not disputing what everyone else hear is saying but it’s my experience that the signal going into the amp is directly related to the overall performance of the subs, and before anyone says it, no there was nothing wrong with the old Sony Processor, it was recently back to the factory for a clean bill of health and all the latest firmware and mods were installed, my old Carver Pro had the same problem as well. If you have ever set on a test bench and driven a input signal into a amp stage you can clearly see that when the input signal degrades just a tiny bit the scope will show the output simply amplifies this tiny inaudible trash into a titanic ugly output waveform, after all that is what a amp does, trash in, much louder trash out.
     
  2. Nick Breckon

    Nick Breckon Well-Known Member

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    Well, surprising results to say the least!

    First, I re-calibrated using DVE to a 75db reference level on all speakers. The SS filter (not to mention the phase dial) made no apparent difference to the SPL meter on the DVE subwoofer tone, so I put it on the standard 20hz with no ports blocked and calibrated the sub level to 88db. Now, to even get down to 88db, I actually had to set the gain knob down from 2/3 to 1/2. Yes, it's still quite high compared to reference, but the DVE disc is apparently undercooked by at least 10 db, or so I hear. Plus I like my bass at reference if I'm going to be listening well under reference, which I often do. In any case, those were my settings going into the test.

    I played Master and Commander's first few minutes at the same volume level as I have been the past few days (15db off of the 75db reference), and WOW! Am I more of a wuss today, or did the sub actually OUTPERFORM itself when it was set a full notch-mark down (perhaps as much as 12db higher)?! SPL peaks of 110db (!!) on the heavy cannon fire, and shaking windows in rooms on the other side of the house. The sub handled the final cannon burst with ease and sheer power. This is all resulting from simply setting the filter from 12hz to 20hz, and actually reducing the sub volume by 10-15db. Apparently the 12hz stuff was causing such a stress on the sub that the middle ranges were requiring a much higher power level (a full notch on the gain dial) to perform. It almost feels like the equivalent of offloading the bass load from the front speakers - finally I'm hearing the sub how it's supposed to sound.

    Pretty much all of you guys had it right. Thanks a lot for all the help! This forum really is a model community for the internet.

    Oh, and while I have a second, thanks again Ron and Tom. You guys are just unbelieveable in a time when I call tech support for something and end up talking to someone in Bagladesh. I mention SVS to practically anyone I meet now who enjoys movies. I've even got my old dork of a dad wearing an SVS shirt. Now that speaks volumes.
     
  3. Garrett Lundy

    Garrett Lundy Well-Known Member

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    Thats not much of an accomplishment. Dorks, dweebs, geeks, and spazz' love the SVS "Sub-Human" shirt. Except my GF's 5-year old nephew. he thinks it is scary.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Tony Genovese

    Tony Genovese Well-Known Member

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    Only if you press the English button. If you press el numero dos, you actually end up speaking Spanish to someone in the US! Strange but true.
     
  5. steve nn

    steve nn Well-Known Member

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    With the authority a SVS sub has in the lower hz material I find it hard to under-calibrate. The SPL will still be there when called upon.

    SPL peaks of 110db (!!) on the heavy cannon fire, and shaking windows in rooms on the other side of the house. The sub handled the final cannon burst with ease and sheer power.

    In the size room your in Nick, your cookin! Fire at will you scurrrrby dog [​IMG]
     
  6. Jim_F

    Jim_F Well-Known Member

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    This is consistent with my experience with my TA-E as well. Perhaps it applies to other pre/pros. I've got my Buttkickers dialed in pretty well, but sometimes they make an awful racket on some particularly hot DTS tracks at high volume (M&C was one) My solution for the lifetime of my processor is to use the DD 5.1 track on these particular discs, which usually keeps everything shuddering nicely.
     
  7. Nick Breckon

    Nick Breckon Well-Known Member

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    Minor update..

    I found that, while Master and Commander was hitting highs of 110-115db, other discs such as LoTR: Two Towers, Matrix Revolutions, etc.. were considerably underpowered with the reduced gain, at normal listening levels. This goes back to how much I just LOVE the discrepency between the LFE tracks from disc to disc.

    So I flipped the baby back up to the 2/3 notch. Obviously I won't have a problem with other dics, but if it bottomed on M&C with these settings, as it was before, I'd have to simply deal with the reduced power.

    Well, that's not the case. With the SS filter, all my bottoming problems have been eliminated.. and M&C is hitting 125db at peak cannon shot. These blasts hit you like a hundred tons right in the gut. It is ridiculous loud. This sub is kickin' out so much air, I'm almost wondering if perhaps it's too loud - if it bottoms, would I even hear it? Normally the noise is so distinct you can pick it out, but with it this loud..

    Is it possible for a sub to half-bottom? As in, smack the bottom a touch, but not enough that I would notice in the middle of such a loud scene? If that could be the case, it'd be a major problem, wouldn't it?

    There's always a little disbelief.. but really I'd just like to believe this filter fixed all my problems and slink back into HT heaven.. [​IMG]
     

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