Directors Star Wars vs Lord of the Rings. (1 Viewer)

[Sam Davatchi]

May be you should make this thread in few weeks. For the moment we have enough of ugly matters with the Star Wars DVD release!

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Tom,
My quote had nothing to do with you or your polite first post. But those of us (on either side, both, or neither) have seen similar threads go crazy.

It just takes one nut. Trust me

Tim, I agree with Haggai. Accept your destiny

Take care,
Chuck

 

[Andres Munoz]

Oh no, not one of these bandwith hogging threads again!

I cannot just simply choose one of them. They all (along with the Matrix Trilogy) hold an equally very dear place in my heart.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

It's really not fair to compare the two. George Lucas isn't half the writer that Tolkien was, and I bet Lucas would admit this...at least to himself.

When the writing for one series is so superior, the other series is starting with too severe of a handicap to have a chance. The Star Wars flicks are so inferior that it isn't even funny.

Does anybody here actually think that if the Star Wars stories were just novels, not films, that millions of people would be buying them decades from now? No freakin' way.

The story just isn't there. Sorry, Star Wars.

 

[Kenneth]

Well, I think the comparison was meant to compare the two franchises as movies. If we analyse them as literature they both have their weaknesses (and I am an enormous fan of LotR's). The 20th Century was actually very good in terms of establishing "modern" mythologies. I would rank them in this order:

LotR's
The Land of OZ (L Frank Baum, not the continent )
Cthuhlu Mythos
Narnia
Star Wars
Conan

I am sure there are a few I missed but those stand out as the literary mythos of the last century.

Kenneth

 

[JonZ]

ANH vs FOTR: ANH
ESB vs TTT: ESB (Sorry but I find TTT to be a very average film)
ROTJ vs ROTK: ROTK (I find Jedi to be almost unwatchable. I watch the space battle at the end and the scenes with Luke,Vader and the Emperor, but cant stomach the rest. I skip right thru it)

Winner: Star Wars

 

[Dan Rudolph]

I think Gandalf would kick Yoda's ass, but Luke Skywalker would beat Frodo down in under 2 minutes. As for Darth Vader vs. Count Dooku, err Sarumon and Leia vs Eowyn, I'm not sure.

 

[Tim Glover]

But I really do love them both No one's buying are they?

 

[Chuck Mayer]

We're not saying you don't love them both, Tim!

We are saying that you ARE a SW nut. "Viewed as" isn't part of the equation.

LOTR has nothing to do with it, in any shape, way, or fashion.

Take care,
Chuck

 

[Dennis Pagoulatos]

Kenneth, Lew, Lou, Shawn, Andy, RobertR, Michael:

"I find your lack of faith disturbing."

Seriously, I would take many of you to task here for completely dismissing Lucas as a director! The original SW is so revolutionary in so many ways, one of them being the directorial style and fast paced (though extremely coherent) editing. I would actually argue that LOTR's directorial style and editing was much more incoherent since PJ had to split up the shooting into so many different units that he didn't have any control over. And the inconsistencies got more and more obvious in TTT and ROTK after he fell way behind in the shooting schedule.

I wouldn't choose between the 2 series though, because quibbles aside, I love them both. SW obviously holds a special nostalgic place in my heart, since I was just shy of 8 when I saw Empire in the theater (and I barely remember seeing SW at 5 1/2 yo!)

-Dennis

 

[Kenneth]

Dennis,

As long as we don't have to appologize to you like the captain did to DV in TESB

I agree that as the director of Star Wars Lucas was supurb. However, I think his track record for follow on efforts was sporatic. I stand by my pick of Jackson as director :p)

I will grant several points in Lucas and Star Wars direction:

If there had been no Star Wars there never would have been a LotR's trilogy on the big screen. I think Lucas broke down too many barriers that allow the Sci Fi/Fantasy genre to be a successful choice for budding directors.

I think the risk of Star Wars was far greater than the risk of LotR's both for Lucas personally and for the film studio. Lucas was a rising star and was risking a promising career on a project few expected success from (of course he was repaid financially for that risk down the road ). The risk for Jackson wasn't as great since he was a relative unknown when he started LotR's.

SW is a more traditional myth (in movie form) than the LotR which had to refocus some of the mythology in adapting Tolkien's work to the silver screen.

Bottom line. I think they are both great films that will stand the test of time and will (and should) appear in film history books.

Kenneth

 

[Quentin]

I am surprised this hasn't gotten uglier faster...

It's hard to compare the two, and even harder if you throw in "The Matrix". SW is a saturday matinee western. LOTR is "Lawrence of Arabia" on psychedelic steroids. "The Matrix" is a mind-bending, kung fu, sci-fi war movie.

They each take their unique genre combinations and run with them very well.

I think giving Jackson the nod for direction is tough - SW had three different directors! And, personally, I'd take Irvin Kershner over any of these guys!

It's also hard to compare writing and/or dialogue. You're talking original vs. adaptation. Obviously, any time LotR cribs from Tolkien, the writing and dialogue soar. But, I also give full credit to such wonderfully quotable lines as "laugh it up, fuzzball."

 

[RobertR]

Dennis:

I don’t completely dismiss Lucas as a director. I simply say that Jackson did a better job. I see none of the “incoherence” you refer to–not in editing, not in the performances, not in the dialogue. I thought Lucas was a promising young director because of his first three films–THX, AG, and SW. But he digressed, and today isn’t even close to Jackson as a director.

 

[JonZ]

"I think Gandalf would kick Yoda's ass...."

I never read the books, but this was one of the most diappointing aspects of these films.If Gandalf is such a great wizard why was he swinging a sword during the battle scenes - where were the locasts,fog,lightning,earthquakes,fire,etc?

I think Excaliburs Merlin or Dragonslayers Ulrich would wipe the floor with Gandalf(yes even Yoda would -Gandalf wouldnt stand a chance agains the little wrinkled ones lightsaber attack)

I cant believe Im even having this conversation.We sound like the guys from Welcome to Eltingville

 

[RobertR]

That's why you don't understand. Gandalf and others were strictly limited in what they were allowed to do. That said, it's absurd to talk about what a character in fictional story A would do to a character in story B (I'm reminded of the scene in Stand By Me where someone says Superman would beat Mighty Mouse because he's "real"). You would simply be making up a THIRD story with whatever "rules" you imagine.

 

[Lew Crippen]

Another difference is that while Peter Jackson directed all three LOTR movies, Lucas only directed the first Star Wars movie. Given that he only directed one-third of the original trilogy, it does not make too much difference how strong he is as a director.

For what it is worth (and I can’t speak for Kenneth, Lou, Swawn, Andy RobertR or Michael), I think very highly of Lucas as a director. So much so that in the AFI challenge, I have given American Graffiti my ‘masterpiece’ rating of four stars.

 

[Kenneth]

It's kind of a prime directive thing Gandalf was there to guide primarily, not be an overwhelming force (that's what got Saruman in trouble).

Or alternately, "locasts, fog, lightning, earthquakes, fires, etc; that is the path to the dark side."

Kenneth

 

[Haggai]

I think your argument for Lucas having had more at risk than Jackson makes sense, in that Lucas was just coming off a massive success with American Graffiti, but I don't think Fox had more on the line with Star Wars than New Line did with LOTR. Remember that Fox was just committing to the one Star Wars movie, with a not-small-but-not-huge-either budget, with no assurances at all of any sequels. New Line committed up front to three movies, at a pretty frickin' high cost--what if the first one had bombed? They might have lost their shirts.

Perhaps this also argues for Jackson having had as much on the line as Lucas, in some sense: had Star Wars flopped, Lucas still might have been "that guy who made two sci-fi flops but kicked butt with American Graffiti" within the industry, but Jackson with a LOTR flop would have been "that guy who made some low-budget splatter movies in New Zealand and then bankrupted a studio." Which one would have had a more difficult career path ahead of him? Maybe Jackson.

 

[JonZ]

ok got it

 

[Kenneth]

Except that because of the LotR's franchise reputation they were able to presell the release rights. Although Hollywood books never seem to show a profit for some reason they were actually well on their way to profit even before The Fellowship of the Ring was released. Also, considering how much video rights can be worth now they had a lot of fall back opportunities that didn't exist in '77.

However, I agree that had either film not succeeded it could have been career ending for the director (I think Lucas had more to lose since his star was very high after AG).

Kenneth