Star Trek season 2 (remastered) (1 Viewer)

[Lou Sytsma]

Watched Disc 3 with my son tonight. He kept asking to watch one more each time an episode ended!

Journey to Babel was excellent of course but Metamorphosis really worked on me the most. As Carabimero previously pointed out the shot through the scarf works so much better with the enhanced detail.

Not having seen the remastered episodes until now I can understand the complaints where the quality of the CGI Enterprise shots varies from one episode to the next. Overall I still give them a big thumbs up.

Too bad Volume 1 of the Symphonic Suites did not include the soundtrack for Metamorphosis. It would have been a perfect fit with The Paradise Syndrome and Is There In Truth No Beauty suites.

 

[Ockeghem]

I've read with interest your posts on these suites, Lou. I'm saving my pennies for them, too.

 

[Carabimero]

I refuse to buy the 2004 version of season one to get the right mix on this, since I am fast becoming spoiled with the better transfers on TOS-R. I already bought season two again (2004) to get the missing DOOMSDAY MACHINE cue that was dropped on the DVD-5 version.

As for MENAGERIE, I'm just going to switch to the French channel when that scene with the plant comes up, since there is no dialogue. At least the mix is correct, though in mono. Then I'll switch back after they let the plant go. Annoying inconvenience, but at least the correct mix is accesible on the DVD.

I notice these things because for me when the world is spinning out of control I can turn to STAR TREK and watch it and feel like it hasn't changed, and I confess to get a certain emotional security out of that. So it's really sad when even small things are changed (don't even get me started on THE FUGITIVE!). In this case, whoever mixed it had no idea what the original scene called for, or they just forget. I suppose I should be surprised. I'm not.

The scene with McCoy talking to Pike, my point is, McCoy starts the sentence with his intended meaning in mind before the beep. True, the beep occurs during the sentence, but McCoy says something like, "I see you're still beeping no," and he STARTS the sentence way before the beep.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Scott, Volume 1 of the Suites is the more Symphonic of the two and its only 3.99 on iTunes.

 

[Ockeghem]

Carabimero,

I'm not as concerned with those aspects of TOS as you are, but I understand why you (or anyone) might be. I take performance practice and pitch and tuning systems quite seriously, and realize that change from what one might expect can be annoying. In some cases, it is not tolerable for me. For example, when works are played too fast (even though in the correct key), on the 'wrong' instruments, or when I hear a work that is (e.g.) in C-sharp major rather than C major, it is something I cannot listen to for very long. Such 'change' can do incredible violence to the music, and can in some cases bastardize the intention of the composer.

 

[RickER]

I agree completely with what you say Scott, regarding the music. For me, i know it so well i can tell when its not the real deal. Most shows, i wouldnt care. But with Trek it has to be the original music cues.

I have been reading with interest on everyones thoughts of season 2 R on DVD. Glad you guys are enjoying it. Once again, like you say Scott, the effects quality can change with the CGI. Sometimes the ORIGINAL was better! Of course i think to this day, a physical model is better than a CGI rendering. Not saying you cant do good things with CGI. But, as with a model, you have to think about the shot your making. Will it look real?

I have noticed that the sound is going bad, on The Cage, or maybe it was The Menagerie? I cant recall now, but the scene in question would be Pike first waking up in his cage, and when he goes "home". You can hear a warbling in the music, and a muffled sound in the dialog. I have noticed this since the first DVD release. The LD was fine. So i can only assume that at some time during the 90s the magnetic tracks started to turn. I am no expert in these things. if i notice it, i have no doubt you guys would too!

 

[Nelson Au]

I'll be watching part 2 of The Menagerie and I'll listen for that muffled and warbling music. I guess I'll have to unpack the laserdiscs too to compare! Boy, I thought I knew Star Trek back to front, but you guys are finding stuff I missed. I must be getting old.

The beeping when McCoy speaks to Pike must have been an error from the original production. I am not surprised, they made lots of those. As you guys know, in Arena, Sulu is hitting buttons on his console and there's no sound effects.

I did watch The City on The Edge of Forever and it's music score is intact, as I thought it was. One thing I never totally understood when Paramount replaced the score when it first came out on video and LD. I understand they didn't have the rights for Goodnight Sweetheart to use on homevideo. But the rest of the score was altered too and I believe it was because it was inspired by that song. Which surprised me because it totally ruins the musical cues for the major moments in the episode. Just because the score was inspired by Goodnight Sweetheart, they can do this? It's really great for DVD, they acquired the rights and made it right! This episode really is special and the music was such an integral part.

Like what David said, it is comforting to visit the familiar world of Star Trek.

By the way, regarding the CGI, while there are issues with consistancy that really shows now with the DVD releases, while watching The Menagarie on the 2004 and 1999 discs, you really can see how unfortunately weak some of the opticals look. I know it's heresy to come from a lifer like me! They at times of course suffer from the blue screen color washing onto the model and you see the Enterprise engines sometimes shimmer or partially dissolve. One unfortunate casualty of the CGI was when they switched to the simpler model. I need to review some earlier episodes to confirm, but I thought I saw the fine ribbing on the rear of the engine caps are finer on the old model (like the 12 foot physical model) and crudely larger on the simpler model. To me that looks video gamey.

Oh yeah, DVD-5? I think you are referring to the single sided, single layer 4.70gb capacity disc used for the 1999 2 episode discs of Star Trek?

 

[RickER]

...and Sulu is hitting buttons so hard in Arena that Eddie Paskie , sitting at the engineering station, turns around to look at him.

 

[Ockeghem]

Excellent points! I really do agree with a physical model being better than CGI. But I wonder if I (personally) have seen the equivalent in art/skill with CGI as was created with models and make-up of years gone by? It would be neat to see the 'best of the best,' if you will, with CGI. I don't know if I would recognize it as such, however.

 

[Carabimero]

I'm keeping a running list of alterations I find to TOS-R, so if anyone has any they've found, I'll put them on my lift, or I can give you mine for your list.

 

[Nelson Au]

David-

Excellent idea for creating a list. But are you referring to little errors like the audio for the singing plant leaves in The Menagerie and stuff like that?

Could be the basis of another thread like the James Bond thread for that recently remastered DVD box set of the Lowry Restorations where they got the colors wrong on On Her Majesty's Secret Service. Are you thinking such a list could be used to bring to light to the studio?

 

[RickER]

I know its a season 3 episode, but do you think they changed the color of the beam from red back to blue, in The Paradise Syndrome, remastered? The only reason it matters is cause Miramani told Kirock to "make the blue flame come out of the temple".

I thought of that when someone brought up mistakes.

 

[Carabimero]

Well, my hope, however naive, is that if we come up with a list of incontestable errors, backed up with baseline proof, there might by a slim chance corrections could be made for Blu. But I doubt it--much of the work may already be done.

Still, I don't see the harm in creating a list.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Watched Obsession - one of my favourites. Good music during the episode too. Set imperfections are quite noticeable in Garrovick's quarters when he is lying on his bunk. Near his head you can clearly see imperfections in the wall and a loose piece of edging bulging out.

Love the closing shot with the anti-matter crater!

 

[Ockeghem]

Lou,

That is a great episode. The relationship between Ensign Garrovick and Kirk is priceless. Did we ever conclude that that actor 'dies' in the beginning of the episode (along with Leslie, I believe), only to come back in the episode (or in the case of Leslie, future episodes)? One of the 'dead' crewman (along with Rizzo, who survives at first) looks very much like the actor that plays Garrovick.

We watched The Man Trap tonight. Seeing as though that was the first episode of TOS seen by the general public, and seeing as though Sept. 8 is a week from tomorrow, viewing it seemed "the logical thing to do." I learned a couple of tidbits from that episode that I'm saving for the trivia thread, too.

 

[Nelson Au]

Regarding seeing defects and imperfections on the sets, yes I noticed that too Lou. And I have been noticing finger prints on set pieces too after Shatner had touched a panel or wall! Must be either make-up, or sweaty hands! Wait till you see The Ultimate Computer and the Jeffries tube sequence.

I saw The Man Trap last week too. Can't wait to see your trivia question Scott.

A new facination for me recently has been how well the directors and set decorators can so effectively redress and use editing and camera angles to make the one corridor set they have look different for various shots. Some are obvious, like Kirk's quarters. I have a floorplan of the standing sets and it's amusing to watch The Ultimate Computer, Obsession, I, Mudd, and other second season shows as well as first season shows and I can see subtle to larger changes made to the corridor set as well as sick bay and engineering. Sometimes I see they move a turbo lift location and I think I figured out how they could fit the shuttlecraft mock-up when there was no more room in the studio! They put it in the next stage. They actually have a turbolift placed in the location near where the transporter console is located! This location places it directly arcoss from the sick bay entrance. Fun!

 

[Steven_J_H]

Nice Thread. Thanks for the heads up about Costco. Picked Season 1.2 up for $55.49.

 

[Carabimero]

Still watching the season one set. BALANCE OF TERROR is one of my favorite episodes but it has a lot of plot holes in it. I don't mind photon torpedoes being called phasers, but how does the Romulan energy weapon keep up with the ENTERPRISE at "emergency warp" speed? Should have just been full reverse power. Any why didn't the ENTERPRISE simply move out of the way instead of try and outrun the weapon? Also, that one line about the Romulan War not allowing ship to ship visual communication single-handedly killed so many possibilties for the Earth-Romulan war, and all for the sake of one shot of Mark Lenard.

I understand it was a submarine story--and it's a great one, but a few lines of dialogue could've easily explained several plot holes.

Still, in my top ten though.

They also did a much better job in the early TOS-R episodes mimicking the original shots and the lighting. As the remastered series movies along, they stop taking as muchy care to mimick the original shots.

 

[Nelson Au]

David-

This was one of the earlier episodes shot, as you know. They probably hadn't gotten all the phaser and warp speed terminology down yet!

I was okay with the dialogue about not having ship to ship communication. As for the energy weapon, well maybe it tracks the target. But then why didn't the Enterprise fly over the energy barrier at the edge of the galaxy in Where No Man has Gone Before? Probably the same reason they didn't turn to avoid the energy weapon!

Oh yeah, in regards to the CGI Remastering, some rambling thoughts. This was the first episode done and shown. When I first saw it in broadcast, I had mixed feelings. The live action is excellently remastered. THey were very slavish about recreating the FX shots. Even down to recreating the positions of the stars in the opening titles. But the Romulan ship's cloaking and de-cloaking lacked something. It was too rapid or needed something like a shimmering effect, but in their early self imposed need to stick to the original, it didn't fully work in my mind. And the energy weapon didn't have the vibrancy the original optical effect had. The comet was excellent though, but I wished they kept the way it looked as they exited it on the viewscreen, it slowly got less and less.

In case you were not here or saw all the discussions we had when this first aired, one of the early criticisms of the CBS work was that it was lacking in variety of ship views. So as the remastered program developed, CBS Digital in interviews related that they heard the criticisms and worked on creating some new angles to photograph the ship from and added some new motions and banking and stuff like that. I think while they were at it, it was a good idea to break a little from what the original shots were and be creative. The Doomsday Machine of course pulled out all the stops. They added new views that followed the dialogue the original shots they could not have done in 1967, same with Tomorrow is Yesterday and The Ultimate Computer.

Regarding your earlier comments about the soprano, that was also heavily criticized here and other sites. She was much too forward. It was a nice try at recreating the opening titles music. But I don't understand why they couldn't use their ears as one measure of how close it sounded!

One thing I just read surprised me relating to the soprano. After Star Trek was renewed for a second year, the producers were looking for ways to save money as the budget to make Star Trek was cut further into the bone. One was to eliminate the sporano, as she would be getting paid each time Trek is aired, while a small sum of money, it still added up.

 

[Joseph Bolus]

It would take somebody with a complete working knowledge of "warp physics" to be able to answer that question.

I can tell you that the NCC-1701 warp nacelles were not designed with variable-geometry pylons; and without that versatility the ship probably couldn't move sideways while simultaneously accelerating to maximum warp speeds. (Either that or the author applied "creative license".)