Star Trek Into Darkness (2013) (1 Viewer)

[Gary Seven]

Nelson, when the blu ray of ST:ID, will you get it?

 

[Ockeghem]

Nelson, when the blu ray of ST:ID, will you get it?

Gary,Is that a trick question? Of course Nelson will get it.

 

[Nelson Au]

Absolutely I'll be getting the deluxe 3D Blu-ray/blu-ray/DVD digital copy set! (Spoken like Chekov in ST-TMP)I've only seen STID once, but there were things I liked. And I'd like to see again. But likely when the disc is released.

 

[Brandon Conway]

Spock and Scotty's objections to Kirk's initial desire to simply follow Marcus' orders in the heat of the moment are, to me, just as compelling as that speech about not killing…today in A Taste of Armageddon. In a way, I find it more compelling because it allows for character growth on the part of Kirk (who sets aside his own impulse for revenge, after giving it some thought) rather than just presenting a Kirk who has the correct stance ready at hand. It's easy to be the one with the right answer. It's more difficult to acknowledge your first impulse might not be correct and then taking action to correct it--the latter shows us character growth, the former simply states he's reached maturity. The younger Kirk is still growing into the one in TOS. This change in his perspective shows us this rather than simply telling us.

Now, don't get me wrong, I quite like that episode (I've even used it in a class as an example of pop culture reflecting the concerns of the day) but I'd hardly call it a sophisticated lesson.

That was my favorite moment of the film.

 

[PaulDA]

That was my favorite moment of the film.

It was among mine. I also liked the scene where Pike dresses down Kirk. The transformation from cocky assurance that he'll be rewarded with the first five year mission to the crushing disappointment of being demoted is very well played by Pine.

Yeah, I doubt many execs would be seeing dollar signs with that pitch.

There is an audience for a more intellectual form of sci-fi (and motion picture in general) but it is (and always has been) a rather small minority. As such, films for that audience are necessarily less ambitious in available resources and represent, even with reduced budgets, a riskier proposition for studios and investors. Star Trek TMP had the pent up audience starved for new Trek to offset the smaller audience (while often viewed today as unsuccessful, it was actually very successful in its day--however, it was considered a disappointment by most of the fans). Wrath of Khan, on a much smaller budget, went on a very different path--an emotionally, rather than intellectually, driven story and was a rousing success (relative to expectations). Trek movies have gone down the same path, to varying degrees of success, ever since. As budgets rise, there is no reason to expect any different going forward. The more intellectual stories will have to be non-Trek movies or in a possible Trek TV revival.

The next movie will be about a giant machine that swallows planets and Kirk discovers another starship destroyed by it. And it's surviving commander tells Kirk it's on it's way to Earth. And he has to stop it.The execs will love that. Lots of destruction along the way. And Carol will be expecting little David Marcus whose home on Earth.

While I'm not sure this will be the next story, an updated take on The Doomsday Machine does have potential.

 

[Ockeghem]

Nelson,

On another Forum I've been having conversations with a couple of posters who believe that The Doomsday Machine would make for a nice film. One poster suggested a Borg connection, although they said that the timeline wouldn't necessarily make sense to have this adversary so early (I did mention Regeneration). The poster also wrote that they could see the beserker as an early prototype absorbing things along the way. I think it's possible.

 

[Nelson Au]

Not sure the Borg are old enough for this current generation of film goers to not already be aware of them. I can see the wrath of the fans if they saw the next film with the Borg! . I can see a connection with the Borg and the Doomsday Machine. Kinda makes sense. Or perhaps the doomsday scenario is still valid and it's a way to defeat the Borg by another species.

 

[Sam Favate]

Not sure the Borg are old enough for this current generation of film goers to not already be aware of them. I can see the wrath of the fans if they saw the next film with the Borg! .I can see a connection with the Borg and the Doomsday Machine. Kinda makes sense. Or perhaps the doomsday scenario is still valid and it's a way to defeat the Borg by another species.

One of the few Trek books I read (and remember) had the Doomsday Machine built as a response to the Borg. (Vendetta, maybe?)

In any case, if one of the new Pine-Quinto movies (I won't call them Abrams movies, since he is not likely to direct the next one) were to feature the Borg, it would signal to me that they are completely out of ideas. Under no circumstances should the Borg be used in another feature film.

 

[Chuck Anstey]

One thing that keeps being mentioned is the cryotubes inside of explosive torpedoes. I thought it was stated clearly that Khan removed the explosives to make room to hide the cryotubes. That is why McCoy had to open the torpedoes at the end; not to save the other supermen's lives but to make room for the explosive element.

 

[PaulDA]

One of the few Trek books I read (and remember) had the Doomsday Machine built as a response to the Borg. (Vendetta, maybe?)

In any case, if one of the new Pine-Quinto movies (I won't call them Abrams movies, since he is not likely to direct the next one) were to feature the Borg, it would signal to me that they are completely out of ideas. Under no circumstances should the Borg be used in another feature film.

I have to disagree. Not because I'm a particular fan of the Borg--I find them overrated as a "key adversary"--but I object to the notion that any element of a fictional universe should be off-limits to anyone writing or filming in that universe. This would be like saying no future film of Superman should ever use Lex Luthor, or Batman use the Joker, or Spider-Man use the Green Goblin, or…

I would be perfectly fine if the Borg are not used in any movie made by Bad Robot (even if Abrams does not direct the next one, I'm pretty sure Bad Robot will still be the production company in charge)--or if they were never used at all. But I also didn't think Khan would be worth revisiting and I stand corrected--so I wouldn't boycott a Borg movie either. As always, it depends entirely on execution.

 

[Steve Tannehill]

One thing that keeps being mentioned is the cryotubes inside of explosive torpedoes. I thought it was stated clearly that Khan removed the explosives to make room to hide the cryotubes. That is why McCoy had to open the torpedoes at the end; not to save the other supermen's lives but to make room for the explosive element.

It was the fuel cell that had been removed to make room for the cryotubes.

 

[Gary Seven]

Absolutely I'll be getting the deluxe 3D Blu-ray/blu-ray/DVD digital copy set! (Spoken like Chekov in ST-TMP)I've only seen STID once, but there were things I liked. And I'd like to see again. But likely when the disc is released.

I was curious since your taste in Trek seems to mirror mine. I'm actually on the fence regarding the purchase.

 

[PaulDA]

This was posted on a Trek board, regarding the alleged "lifting" of the climax of Wrath of Khan wholesale in STiD. It sums up why the new film is not a remake of Wrath of Khan quite well, in my view:

As it is, I don't see the scene as a complete lift at all. The resemblance between the climaxes of the two films is marginal at best: both are set in a similar location and feature a similar sacrifice. The dialogue is almost entirely new. The narrative beats are new. The thematic resonance is new.

The original scene was primarily a farewell and a confirmation of a relationship between characters. Kirk used emotion to express his friendship. Spock used logic to express hisfriendship. These are the roles these two characters embraced throughout the bulk of two films and three seasons of television. The scene wasn't meant to push its characters to new places. Rather, it affirmed the relationships that already existed.

The new scene is more interested in character development, ushering both characters through a moment of transformations and firsts: Kirk finally admits that he fears, finally faces certain death, finally earns his captaincy, and he does these things through what he perceives as a logical act taught to him by Spock. Spock finally admits his own internal strife and puzzlement about his logical side, and he recognizes that his act was essentially emotional, culminating in a moment of raw anger in which his Vulcan side breaks down entirely. These movements feel earned, and there are a lot of them. It's a tightly and carefully written scene.

None of the above beats are part of the original seven or so lines in Khan, which primarily highlighted Spock as logical and Kirk as emotional. The original gave us stasis we longed for between these two; the reinterpretation gives us character movement and direction. I guess I just don't see this scene as a direct lift or lazy appropriation of material from Khan; only the most perfunctory elements have been retained, with the themes, dialogue, and character interactions working entirely differently. It works for me, possibly more so than the original.

 

[Tino]

One of the few Trek books I read (and remember) had the Doomsday Machine built as a response to the Borg. (Vendetta, maybe?) In any case, if one of the new Pine-Quinto movies (I won't call them Abrams movies, since he is not likely to direct the next one) were to feature the Borg, it would signal to me that they are completely out of ideas. Under no circumstances should the Borg be used in another feature film.

I agree completely.

 

[Ockeghem]

Nelson,
After reading this article which includes several TOS references that can be either seen or heard in the new film, I may eventually see it in the theater. I'm still mulling it over.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/10-big-star-trek-references-in-star-trek-into-darkness

 

[Chuck Anstey]

It was the fuel cell that had been removed to make room for the cryotubes.

? Then how was Kirk supposed to fire the torpedoes at Kronos from the edge of the neutral zone, kill off Khan's crew when they go splat, and then get caught by the Klingon Empire for firing on them (I assume the shielding was going to fail so they would be detected in flight), which would then lead to the war Admiral Marcus wanted? With no fuel they wouldn't go anywhere. Secondly, why would Khan leave the explosive intact right next to his crew, which is activated the moment anyone tampers with the torpedoes?

The whole setup doesn't make sense regardless because with no explosives, Khan would still be alive after firing but no fuel makes even less sense as they won't go anywhere.

 

[Steve Tannehill]

Maybe there is some fuel left over. But I saw this yesterday and distinctly recall Carol Marcus saying that the cryo chamber with the body replaced the fuel.

 

[Chuck Anstey]

Maybe there is some fuel left over. But I saw this yesterday and distinctly recall Carol Marcus saying that the cryo chamber with the body replaced the fuel.

If that is the case then I am even more disappointed in the writing. Khan would have expected them to activate the torpedoes to explode because that is what he would have done and would be logical (the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few pyschopaths that will kill millions more). It only makes sense that he would be that stupid if he knew there were no explosives and the trick was Spock removed the cryotubes to put in the explosives.

 

[Citizen87645]

That's what I recall as well. I assumed the launch tubes have some sort of way to launch them, rather than just being passive containers. Even if the torpedoes veer off course, that's no big deal. The crew will die and they'll technically have fired on a Klingon territory.

Putting an explosive next to your loved ones does seem like a less than well considered plan however.

 

[Nelson Au]

PaulDA,that's was an interesting quote you lifted from the other board, gives me pause to rethink that.Scott, thanks for the link, I'll check that out!