>>>> Spoke to Warner Rep today concerning WONKA & CATS - here is what I was told..... (1 Viewer)

[Harry E]

I will not be purchasing anymore of your releases if
you keep up this practice. I don't mind if you give us
both versions but you are short changing your dedicated
customers by this.
And on another note why is Japan getting the Looney Toons
DVD's before we are.
These animated classics were made in America you would think
we would get them first.
And release the censored 11 cartoons. I mean your company
does'nt have any trouble releasing movies and music that
offend Christians. And most of that material really is junk.
Eddie Estes

 

[Sean Cullen]

Words can't discribe the anger I am feeling towards WB right now.
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[AdrianJ]

I was told that Warner Brothers did an extensive survey and found that family buying consumers prefer the Pan & Scan format.

I don't know about anyone else, but I would love to get my hands on this survey. Exactly who did they survey? Were they actually even people that own DVD players? How were the questions phrazed? What was the sample size? An exactly, how valid were the conclusions they reached?
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Adrian Jones

 

[Wes Ray]

I was going to buy Willy Wonka, but now that it's been announced as pan and scan, I will not. I have the pan and scan version on video, why do we need to buy another copy of it? I thought Special Editions were supposed to be for the fans? If you're catering to the family audiences and leaving the die-hard DVD fans out in the cold, why not just release another bare-bones disc? Why did you put the effort into the special edition if you were not prepared to go all the way with it? This is simply shameless.
I'm just glad Warner released Pee Wee's Big Adventure before they started re-thinking things under their current mentality.

 

[Luc Labelle]

There is no doubt your statistical survey is extremely flawed. As George Kaplan has already pointed out it should be weighted to reflect the DVD buying habits of the respondents.
Let us pause for a moment and extend your brilliant marketing methods to a broader scope. We then find out that 95% of the world's population does not like watching movies on DVD (seeing that 95% do not even own a player).
Now let us use the Warner Brothers method of statistical analysis and decide to release all DVDs completely blank because the large majority don't like watching movies on DVD. In the meantime, the 5% who actually watch movies on the DVD players they own are left to purchase completely blank DVDs or nothing at all. Educated that they are, they chose nothing. But heh, you only lose 5% of the market (who happen to purchase 100% of the DVDs, but who wants to hurt their heads by actually thinking).
On a serious note, let me just say that widescreen DVDs can and have sold million(s) of units. Should this market be completely ignored. NO! While you may believe your profit margin on a widescreen release would not be high enough; I find it hard to believe that the cost of preparing the product for an OAR release can possibly be that high. I figure the cost of producing the added-value extras would be higher. You now lose the entire market that most desires the investment you have made towards supplemental material.
I will never buy non-OAR, as well as all my friends and family members that I have convinced to buy DVD players.

 

[Rob Lutter]

Warner... you may not realize this, but by making so called "Family" movies Pan and Scanned... you are missing out on a bunch of the market. CHOICE is what is at stake here...
Let me make an example...
I drive a car and have always drove a car... and all of a sudden you (the car manufacturer) see that "Hey! SUVs are selling better than cars!" Even though they eat gas and are hard to park, and you decide, "Heck! Why even bother making cars!" You take cars off the market and decide to dedicate yourself to making SUVs because they are great for the soccer moms of the world... Well guess what, I am a single male student and don't want to pay for the gas or the hassle of a huge SUV. So I go to your competitor to buy my car instead of you because I have the choice if I want an SUV or a Car...
see what I am getting at?
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Robert Lutter

 

[Joe Fisher]

Dear Warner,
I will not buy any Warner Bros issued DVDs until I have a concrete guarantee that ALL WB DVD'S WILL HAVE A WIDESCREEN VERSION ON IT!!!. This includes any past, present, or future titles.
Thank You,
Joseph E Fisher.

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:alien:

 

[Sean Moon]

I just realized I should hurry now and see Osmosis Jones in a theater NOW, since it will more than likely be pan and scanned on DVD whenever WB decides to butcher it.
Also need to hunt down the old first edition Iron Giant DVD now, as it is looking more likely the SE will not be OAR.
Is Warner trying to make a bad anme for themselves.
I like having a choice on what to watch, but wasnt widescreen only doing fine? Look at the sales for Gladiator, Matrix, and Cast Away!! Widescreen sells. It is not like it hurt their sales!! In my opinion adding the choice for PS to the market is only confusing customers more, as more releases have the choice, the more they expect it, and the more you drive a portion of the market away as you stop OAR. By only supporting OAR, you give the niche market what they want, and have a golden opportunity to EDUCATE the rest of the market, instead of letting the inferior product win. OAR now is futureproofing my purchases, as I will be able to take even better advantage of them when I get a 16x9 set, as many more people will.
Warner has now lost any shred of respect I and I am sure countless others have had. Unless there is an about face, I will never buy a Warner product again, and encourage customers at my business not to either, as this current practice is unforgivable.
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[Antonio_M]

What I hate is how Warner is silently quiet about this. They give no warning to those who supported them and bought their DVDs. That is what hurts. The fact that they didn't tell their widescreen supporters as to why they are removing widescreen in favor for 4:3.
And no word to the public since Willy Wonka. You have to be there constantly to get an answer from them.
But don't worry, cause most of us are good people, you can't get away with it. Mother nature has a tendency of biting you in the ass in the long run.

 

[Brian W. Ralston]

Hey Warner.....want to know another reason why the new Willy Wonka DVD will fail in its Pan & Scan format? This disc was released before...although without extras. A lot of people bought this disc. A lot of families bought this disc already. In your research how many of these families (the "Joe Six Pack variety") will go back out and purchase this movie a second time just for the extras. I know people in that category and they will not by it again simply because they already own the movie and it would be a waste of money. These are the people you seem to be targeting with the Pan & Scan only release of this new DVD BUT these are the people who are not fanatical enough to re-purchase a movie they already own.
It is the hardcore DVD fans who will go out and buy movies two and three times when new editions are released AND it is this fan base that demands original aspect ratios on all their movies. So.....someone making these decisions at Warner is out of touch with who will buy a "Special Anniversary Edition" of Willy Wonka. Don't just "consider" doing a widescreen Willy Wonka disc. DO IT!
Don't ignore the DVD fan base which has made this medium into what it is today. Don't ignore the artist integrity of the directors and cinematographers by re-framing their movies into a Pan & Scan version just because the lenses on their motion picture cameras produce a rectangular image and today's TV screens are mostly square. Don't ignore these facts and continue to release Pan & Scan only editions (..like the up-n-coming Cat & Dogs)! I have no problem you including a Pan & Scan version on a disc IF YOU DO NOT REMOVE THE ANAMORPHIC WIDESCREEN VERSION ON THE SAME DISC.
A lot of "Joe six pack" consumers do not even know the difference between letterboxed images and Pan & Scan images. Why was the decision made to provide content to this lowest common denominator, rather than educate the public about the difference? (An example would be FOX's Die Hard DVD which has the director talking about why he prefers shooting in widescreen and it shows both versions in the interview to show what is lost as a result). In my "research" among my friends, once they are shown the difference and it is explained to them, they prefer the widescreened image and get use to it being shown on a square TV. When these same people you are catering to in the VERY NEAR FUTURE go out and buy widescreen HDTV sets, their Pan & Scan movies will now have bars on the left and right. Did you ask them if they knew this fact? They won't be happy then I will guarantee you that...because their screen isn't filled. I can hear them now, "I paid all this money for a widescreen TV and the picture does not even cover the screen." You want to include a Pan & Scan verison on the DVD for families? Fine. Don't leave out the widescreen as a result. Put both on. Will space and extras suffer....of course, but other studios seem to be handling that well. Perhaps Warner will have to look into more two disc special editions then to handle this.
For me, NO WIDESCREEN = NO SALE. NONE! ZILCH! ZIPPO! EVER!
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Regards,
Brian W. Ralston
"Success is a journey, not a destination." - Unknown
[Edited last by Brian W. Ralston on August 17, 2001 at 11:23 PM]

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I think Patrick is correct that some day when 16x9 TVs are norm the public will then demand Widescreen because then they won’t want all that “wasted space” on the sides of the screen. The question is how many years will it take?

I doubt it... Then we'll just end up with 16x9 pan-and-scan. Less image chopped off, true, but still censored. I don't see how a studio can make such a distinction towards family films... If anything, the adults are more against it than the children... They're more accepting of these types of things. Bring up a generation on widescreen, and you'll no longer have to worry about pan&scan versions.
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My DVD Collection

 

[Erwin]

Well, this is very sad. I used to have no knowledge as to what WidescreeN was when I first bought a DVD player. Now, it's a preference that I have because it feels like a movie, and it makes me feel comfortable in knowing that the movie has not been modified. Warner, I really don't know why you feel FAMILY titles must all be Pan&Scan only. My daughter's favorite film is one of your Widescreen titles, "The Iron Giant", and she has no complaints about WidescreeN.
You know, DVD player do have this thing called zoom which is pretty much the same thing as Pans& Scan. I use it sometimes on my JVC player and to me, I see no difference. Most people, and this is a fact, (atleast from the surveys I have taken

) people who like Pan & Scan don't mind watching 1.85 X 1 Widescreen movies. So, why Cats and Dogs is Pan & Scan is beyond me. Disney may have took awhile to bring amimorphic to there titles, but atleast they were Widescreen. Who would have thought, Warner who set the standards for DVD is now being overshadowed by DISNEY. Disney has totally blown me away with their DVDs in the last 2 years (Bug's Life, Tarzan, Emperor's New Groove, Toy Story 1 & 2: Now these are some serious family titles). When Disney and Universal release Pan & Scan, atleast they give an option for WidescreeN. WidescreeN is the in-thing-----it should be the only standard, but a choice is good thing too. Please don't forget about releasing WidescreeN, Warner. Look at the sales of the Matrix, Warner, probably the best selling DVD of all time (I think it is), and it's only in WidescreeN.
Ron, thanks, for bringing this topic to the forum as I think this is something WE and several others agree on.
[Edited last by Erwin on August 17, 2001 at 11:34 PM]

 

[Anthony Thorne]

I'm not intending to boycott Warner discs. There are (currently) too many good Warner DVD's coming out (and a lot of recent one that I've yet to pick up) that seem like excellent purchases.
However, like the above posters, I have a preference for widescreen. I realize that WONKA is open-matte, but a widescreen presentation would have been preferable.
I've noticed that some companies are releasing widescreen and pan/scan versions on different discs. I understand that MGM did this with their recent SILENCE OF THE LAMBS Special Edition. I bought the widescreen version, but expect that some folks may buy the other. Either way, no-one is put off and everyone gets a version that they are happy with.
If Warner felt compelled to offer a pan/scan version of a particular film in the future, it would be interesting for them to also release a widescreen version and compare the sales. Things might vary on a title by title basis but I expect that 'Special Edition' titles in widescreen might be more popular than those same titles released in pan/scan. The family market does exist, and I've met people in their late 20's/early 30's who dislike letterboxing. These latter folks though weren't very big DVD collectors, and I have a feeling that folks who are inclined to buy a DVD on the basis of intensive 'Special Edition' content are, by and large, the same folks that prefer the widescreen format. I haven't seen too many threads bemoaning the open-matte presentation of FEARLESS on DVD, but if a new Special Edition with Weir/Bridges commentary was released in open-matte, the complaints would be many.
Disney are releasing a lot of childrens features to DVD, and many of these are in widescreen or include widescreen as an option. I have a lot of respect for Warner and really appreciate the efforts shown in remastering current and catalogue titles - a lot of recent Warner discs really raise the benchmark for presentation on home video, and I am happy to purchase them. Pan/Scan and open-matte presentations of films that were originally screened in widescreen are the one thing that will prevent me from picking up a disc, however. I just get the feeling that the viewing experience isn't quite right. I think pan/scan is fine for VHS, but on DVD I prefer the letterboxing.
I understand that not every family with a DVD player is going to invest in thousands of dollars of home theater equipment, and I don't think it's the end of the world if these people are given a pan/scan option. Folks who prefer this option do exist, (though probably not in great numbers on this board). What I think though is that including an additional widescreen version, either on the same disc or as a seperate release, is a good policy for those of us who prefer to see movies in this way. If a widescreen WONKA was also being released at the same time as the pan/scan version, the complaints on this board would be nil.
Warner, you are welcome to have a lot of my money. I will happily purchase numerous Warner discs, snapper case and all, so long as they are in widescreen or offer widescreen as an option. If widescreen is not included, I will shrug and buy discs that week from another studio. There are too many good titles on the market for me to pick up a disc that isn't completely satisfying to me as a consumer. The widescreen option is satisfying and I will support it with my wallet. Pan/Scan and open-matte is less satisfying, and I will pass those discs over for something else.

 

[Erwin]

Another thing is that WidescreeN is not only for the elitist. Although I wish I could afford to be one

.
I have always enjoyed looking at all these home theaters that I don't own though. I have a 32' television. A 32' television cost about $400 which is a 1/3 of what a computer cost.

 

[Rollie]

I tend to agree with others in this thread, however I would like to expand on several points.
1) Give us a widescreen presentation of the movie. If Pan & Scan is absolutely necessary, make it an option on the disc. (video setup: ex. Anchor Bay, Columbia)
2) If two aspect ratios on one disc are impossible due to disc size give us seperate Widescreen and Fullscreen releases.
3) I'm no expert on surveys, but I do know about profit. If there truly is a market for Pan & Scan then the demand must be met. But, don't alienate your customers who prefer the original aspect ratio. Release 70% of "Movie A" on DVD in fullscreen and release the other 30% in Widescreen. Let the disc sales speak for themselves.
Have a nice day!
P.S. Ditch the snapper.
[Edited last by Rollie on August 17, 2001 at 11:48 PM]

 

[CharlesD]

quote: I used to have no knowledge as to what WidescreeN was when I first bought a DVD player. Now, it's a preference that I have because it feels like a movie, and it makes me feel comfortable in knowing that the movie has not been modified. [/quote]
Erwin brings up an excellent point. He is far from alone. I did have some preference for widescreen before getting into DVD thanks to the Sci Fi channel, but watching DVDs over the last few years has completely changed they way I perceive and watch movies at home.
Why is it that DVD has been such an incredible success? Because of the content of the discs: the complete movie (not a cropped and altered version of it) the director's commentary, deleted scenes and the other extras.
But here is what Warner doesn't seem to understand: all that extra value stuff is meaningless with out the entire movie being there!
What's the point of hearing a director explain why he shot a scene in a certain manner when 40% of the scene is missing? What's the point of listening to a Special effects guy talk about an effect when its been cropped, panned & scanned?
If you're going to put P&S versions ONLY why bother at all? Why not stay with VHS?
No OAR = NO SALE
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-- Will Work for Five Million Dollars
[Edited last by CharlesD on August 17, 2001 at 11:58 PM]

 

[donald p]

Dear Warner Brothers
Once again, I have to wonder where this "family survey" was conducted. I will say that I'm not doubting your word, but I have to ask:
Was the survey 10,000 signatures strong?
Because that is how strong the signature regarding Willy Wonka is.
If we take a third of that as gospel, you will see that is a significant loss of revenue on one title. But beyond that, you stand a chance of losing the respect of the very people you helped bring into this industry.
I was a video sale rep when DVD was first introduced and I recall my Sales Representative from Warner telling me how DVD was a gift to the industry as well as the collector. The key word used over and over again was "choice." I will admit that I didn't buy it at first because I had no concept of aspect ratios or any interest in details like special features.
Now, ten years later, I find myself, an avid collector of the format with a collection of over 2500 DVD's and I have watched the fullframe ratio only when I have no choice in the matter.
The main difference there was these were discs that offered no choice, and had I been given the option, I would not have bought them. Now, DVD is a different market and I'm a different person. I have a choice in the matter and I will not support Pan & Scan only discs. There are far too many studios that are doing the right thing by us and offering us that choice. Both Universal and MGM have agreed that there is a demand for Pan & Scan, but they offer the buyer the choice at the outset. It makes no sense that you cannot do the same thing.
I suspect that the entire issue is confusing at the moment, but you can do a good thing by taking a few voices seriously. The members of this forum are some of the most respected individuals in this market, and they do not make threats lightly. Without naming names, I can assure you that I am in a position to support the fact that sales on Willy Wonka have dropped significantly. I can also attest to the fact that Cats & Dogs did not get off to the strong start that the title should have, because it is a wonderful film.
Ultimately, there are a multitude of choices that you can make to appease both family audiences as well as collectors as well as recognize that they are often the same people. Dual sided discs are one option, multiple pressings are another, but always at the same time. You cannot make one choice suffer because you deem the other more worthy
I also have to add that the forum members are really doing a good job supporting this case. I applaud those who are remaining civil, as well as those who are making the short statement of:
NO OAR=NO SALE
Because numbers and mature discussion will solve this so much quicker than the obscene expression of outrage that is sitting on all our lips
Finally: I have to add that the views expressed are that of myself as a collector, and I apologize if any of this sounded officious, because I truly did not mean to berate anybody or insult anyone in this forum that I consider the best out there.

 

[Michael Allred]

Warner Brothers, lemme ask you something.
When you released widescreen only DVD's, did you ever receive a backlash from consumers where you were inundated with phone calls, emails, letters and petitions from thousands of people saying they only want "pan and scan" and will refuse to buy a disc if it's not full screen? That some of them will refuse to buy WB titles *period*?
I didn't think so.
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My DVD collection--> http://members.tripod.com/~evilbaby/DVD_Collection.html

 

[Jeffrey Forner]

Warner;
I think what's so frustrating about all this is that it could so easily be a win-win situation for everyone involved--for the families you want to target with your DVD releases, for the serious home theater enthusiasts who want to see their movies presented in widescreen, and for your studio as well.
The solution is very simple: Just put both the Pan & Scan and widescreen versions on the same disc! That way, everyone is happy. Those families get their TV filled, we get our widescreen presentation, and you sell more copies of your movies on DVD.
I seriously don't understand why you can't even consider the possibility of doing this. The DVD format was designed to give consumers a choice of formats. You've been able to provide both versions of movies like The Iron Giant in the past. Why can't you do this any more? Your actions indicate that you are unwilling to give consumers this choice and it will hurt you in the long run. None of us will buy a movie that is not presented in its original aspect ratio, and we constitute a large portion of the people who buy movies regularly.
In the end, I pray that you will come to your senses and release the films as they were intended to be seen--in widescreen. I don't care if you continue to release movies in Pan & Scan as well if you belive that will help you sell more DVDs. After all, this is a business and you are in this to make money. That's perfectly understandable. All we ask is that we are given a choice in the matter.
Thank you for listening.
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-J.Fo
Live in the Minneapolis/St. Paul Area? Wanna meet local HTF members? Click Here!

 

[SteveMc]

I, too, will not be buying any DVD that isn't OAR. My want list is around 50 titles right now and I obviously can't buy them all so I am always looking for some to cross off. There goes Wonka, Cats & Dogs, and any other Warner title that isn't a must have for me (even if it is OAR).
Even people who don't like the "black bars" can change their mind once they get used to them. Most of my friends hated that I only bought widesceen VHS three years ago originally. Now they ask for widescreen all the time. True not everyone likes them, but gives people who do a choice. Everyone wins.
I told my girlfriend this week that Wonka was coming to DVD and she was so thrilled. She grew up on this movie. Until I told her why I would not be buying. "That's stupid, why are they doing that?" Of course that seems the be what we are all trying to figure out, but I couldn't give her a good answer and as such she replied "That sucks. Don't buy it." I won't be. Pre-order cancelled and scratched 6 must have warner titles off of my list.
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Crash
"I don't even own a gun, let alone many guns that would necessitate an entire rack."
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