>>>> Spoke to Warner Rep today concerning WONKA & CATS - here is what I was told..... (1 Viewer)

[PhilipG]

It is high time we went on the offensive!
Trying not to sound clichéd, but we have one weapon on our side: and that is the truth. We know of the butchery that is pan&scam, as well as with open-matte/Super-35 (pan/scam of effects shots, slight cropping of the edges). We know that very few people, when faced with this truth (via screenshots from widescreen.org or otherwise), still prefer their TVs filled.
But here at the HTF, we're preaching to the converted.
Studios like to promote their new releases. If J6P is purchasing on-line, then (s)he needs to be made aware that new releases are butchered pan/scam.
1. We post extensively on other forums - especially those set up on Warner's official site. In as many separate threads as possible.
2. In particular we target on-line stores, such as Amazon, with low-star reviews, explaining why.
3. Those of us who write disc reviews for DVD sites - again, write poor reviews, explaining why (perhaps just a "This movie is pan/scam, with some extras, 1 star").
4. We continually ask b&m stores for anamorphic widescreen versions of Cats&Dogs, Wonka, etc, and ask "Why not?" when they say they don't have them.
5. We pre-order pan/scam titles, and cancel the same orders at the last moment (preferably with a polite email saying we weren't aware that the discs didn't have the "standard widescreen versions included, which our kids prefer".
So there's my 5-point plan. Who's with me?

 

[Matt DeVillier]

Warner -
no OAR, no sale. it's that simple.
Matt DeVillier
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My DVD collection

 

[SteveK]

Regarding this "extensive survey", was it a survey of DVD owners only, or was it a random survey of the population? If it was a random survey, probably 90% or more of the respondents don't own DVD, may have never seen a DVD, and have no intention of buying DVD. Is it wise to base your marketing decisions on people who can't use your product even if you do cater to their wishes? Before I had my DVD player, I would have answered that I prefer P&S on all movies, not just "family" fare. I used to hate widescreen, but now I can't stand P&S on any movie. The person who doesn't yet own a DVD may not have had the opportunity to make that same transition from preferring P&S to preferring OAR. Again, is it wise to base your decisions on people who can't use your product?
I don't have a marketing degree, but somehow that doesn't seem wise to me. Even if it is true that "families" prefer P&S, does this mean that P&S should be the ONLY choice? Would Joe Citizen decide not to buy a DVD because it includes both the P&S and OAR versions? No! Would the person who prefers OAR decide not buy a DVD for the same reason? No! But would he buy the DVD if it only offered the P&S? No!
WB, you're not going to alienate anybody if you at least offer a choice. OAR-only would be preferred, of course, but please don't offer us P&S only version of any movie. Just as I don't subscribe to any premium movie channel due to the lack of OAR, I will never buy, or even rent, ANY movie if it is only offered in P&S. Period.
Steve K.
Edited to (hopefully) improve readability.
[Edited last by SteveK on August 17, 2001 at 07:50 PM]

 

[ScottR]

I really wish that Warner would reconsider any recent decisions made regarding P&Sing family films. It is nice to have choices in the market, and I guarantee that sales on these titles will drop off tremendously....come to think of it, maybe classic musicals would sell better. No need for letterboxing (on most)....hmmmmmmmm.

 

[Mike A]

I'll vote with my pocket book too.
NO OAR NO SALE!!
Market Research? Does your market research also tell you that it's worth alienating the "hardcore" DVD/Film buffs. A sale is a sale right? Why leave out a percentage of people by not including an OAR transfer. It's not that hard!!
Look at Dreamworks and Disney as good examples of how to treat "Family Entertaintment".
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Mitsubishi 55807
Toshiba 5109
Yamaha RX-V496
DVD Collection

 

[Bill Crosthwait]

Warner, I have no problem buying a DVD with OAR widescreen and Pan Scam on it. But when the DVD is released with only pan & scan....I will not buy it and I will personally make sure that my friends and family will not buy it either.
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Bill
My DVD Collection
[email protected]

 

[Paul Wu]

Ron, you ask us to keep it civil. But you must realize how difficult it is to be civil when the parent of DVD, the one who has done so much has gone astray. It's like looking up expecting a nice smile, but we get our headsmacked. Why? What did we do? Did we not buy enough titles? Sure we've been critical of snappers, and want OAR, and Anamorphic transfers, but is that really asking so much? To have the best presentation possible, aren't your movies worth it?
As the saying goes, you can't please all of the people all of the time. And it is plain to me that you are choosing to satisfy the average consumer.
I think you ought to do another survey to try and determine how much influence us DVD enthusists have. All my friends know that I've got a DVD collection that just past 200, and they ask me what to buy, as well I tell them what not to buy.
You know, it used to be that if I saw a WB movie, I knew that a great DVD would be produced. Now I no longer have that assurance.
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Paul Wu
"There are three kinds of people in this world; those that can count and those that can't."
Anyone in the Vancouver, BC area interested in meeting up? If so, click here.

 

[george kaplan]

Warner,
On the off-chance that you really do read this thread and care about what we have to say, let me raise the following (non-profanity laced ) issue.
Has someone high up in your organization looked carefully at this extensive survey?
How large is the sample (what are the confidence intervals?)
Is the sample truly random? (highly unlikely)
If not, how was it collected, and do you realize how unrepresentative your sample probably is of the dvd-buying population?
Did you count everyone equally, or did you weight the responses by how many dvds they actually buy? The correct unit of analysis for this survey isn't people, but dollars spent. Some people spend more of them than others, and their responses need to be weighted appropriately in order to have unbiased results.
How were the survey questions worded? It's very easy in survey sampling to skew the results with poorly worded questions. Did you ask about p&s only vs. OAR only vs. p&s/OAR together? Did you explain that p&s means losing picture? Did you ask not just "What do you prefer?", but "Would such a ratio actually prevent you from buying the dvd even if you loved the movie?".
It costs more money to do market research right than to do a poor job, but the cost of incorrect results can be millions of dollars in lost revenue. I strongly suspect that you're about to find that out in Willy Wonka, although I doubt if the suits there will come to the correct conclusion about why.
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13-time NBA world champion Lakers: 1949, 1950, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1972, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988, 2000, 2001
[Edited last by george kaplan on August 17, 2001 at 07:51 PM]

 

[Garry I]

I don't know what "market research" they are doing, because just about everybody here is against cropped movies. I do not buy cropped movies anymore. People are moving to widescreen tv's. With digital television getting increasingly more popular, people are more interested in widescreen movies and they are now realising that they shouldn't buy cropped movies anymore. I was looking forward to buy Willy wonka and The Neverendingstory 1 and 2, but i won't unless they are in their OAR. I hope WARNER reconsiders their plans on Family movies!

 

[GaryEA]

Warner,
quote: I was told that Warner Brothers did an extensive survey and found that family buying consumers prefer the Pan & Scan format.[/quote]
I don't buy it. Literally.
An "extensive survey", something you would think would be a comprehensive search for opinion, reverses the course of a major studio? Just like that, and at the risk of alienating another segment of the consumer base?
Let's face it; this has nothing to do with families.
WB surveys "x" amount of people regarding their family's preference while watching a DVD. ("Full-frame or widescreen?") The total of "y" is over "z" and WB decides that since the people that made up "y" were the majority, they then represent the present and future DVD community that buy family films and, presumably, have a family.
That's where the role of "family" ends in this decision.
Armed with a stack of statistics, Warner Brothers, once one of the leaders of DVD, reverses course only because the majority of families surveyed said that they preferred full-screen, sales will go up.
Again, their quote used the phrase "family buying consumers".
This is not about what families think or care about, as much as WB would like the DVD community think. This is a calculated decision to increase sales decided upon using a flawed theory of what a segment of DVD consumers think.
Either start filming "family" films in full screen format when you green light them, or quit insulting my intelligence.
I can't wait to hear about your new policies when widescreen television are the norm with the families you hold so dear.
"Do you prefer full frame or do you not mind the bars on the left and right of your screen?"
Oh yeah. It should be a real eye-opener.
Regards,
Gary
(still waiting for a logical reason why both formats cannot be offered on the same disc)
[Edited last by GaryEA on August 17, 2001 at 08:04 PM]

 

[Andrew Walsh]

You MUST give the consumer choice. If the reason you want to keep it single-disc is so you can continue to use your inferior snapper cases, then release separate OAR and P&S versions, and see which one sells better. Universal did it with Jurassic Park, which many consider a family film. Check their numbers.
Just understand we will NOT accept P&S. We will NEVER purchase anything but the OAR. We'll buy the same movie three times for extra features, but NOT ONCE will we buy P&S from ANY studio.

 

[Glenn Overholt]

This is going to back up on Warner in the years to come. After their 'average' family buys a DVD player and a widescreen TV, you'll be getting new letters asking for an explanation on why your movies are all 'square'.
What I feel would be the best solution is to put put both versions on the disks, and before the menu comes on, a brief explanation is given as to which version the viewer wants to watch is shown. This way they will learn what to expect in the future.
Oh, and as a side note on your new releases. It would take more time and $$$ to P&S a movie. This looks like you are going out of your way just to get us mad! Please reconsider.
Glenn

 

[David Lambert]

Warner...
I've said this so many times lately. I keep repeating it...in an effort to ensure that it gets communicated to you. I hope it gets read and understood.
We - most of us - aren't really asking for the elimination of Pan & Scan format films on DVD.
We simply want Widescreen to be available when the main presentation's Original Aspect Ratio is a widescreen format.
I own 746 DVD's at last count (I went on a buying spree this past week...Paramount and Fox if you must know!).
I average 31 DVD's per month. Keep in mind that not all months are 31 days...so I average more than one disc per day! (I, like a previous poster, am in my 30's, married, and have a child (not two like him), and could be considered "affluent" (we have two healthy computer-field-related incomes between us, own a new house and a new car and a new computer, etc.). We expect to purchase a widescreen television in the very near future (perhaps when the Tax Rebate hits...we're both getting bonuses at the same time as that hits us in Sept.!).
I only buy OAR presentation DVD's these days. My wife concurs. WE control the DVD-buying decisions in the house, since our son is only 3. As you'll see from my signature below, he doesn't mind watching Superman - a Warner Brothers release! - in widescreen.
He will also watch - over and over again to the point of mom & dad barfing - his widescreen DVD of Turbo Power Rangers (every once in a while we flip it over to MMPR: The Movie for variety, but he prefers Turbo). This disc - both films on both sides - are in widescreen.
Right now I own 100 Fox DVD's (13.4% of the collection) and WB is in 2nd place, with 96 discs (12.9%).
7% of my collection is in Pan & Scan. That number has dropped in the past almost-year, from about 12%. Two things made that happen: 1) I stopped buying ANY non-OAR discs (no matter how cheap), and 2) I started liquidating non-OAR titles (gave 'em away, sold 'em, traded 'em in). The process continues as I find avenues to liquidate them in to my best advantage.
Not surprisingly, here are the top 2 - by far! - studios who made the P&S discs I currently have left:
WB......16......33% of my P&S group
MGM......8......16% of my P&S group
Liquidating those WB P&S titles immediately - without any new purchases - will bring you down to 5th place at 8.4% (tied with MGM if I liquidated theirs, too).
Of course, all of my new purchases will be OAR. If WB makes fewer OAR releases on DVD, your share of our collection will go farther down, and farther down, etc.
Moreover, we will continue to show and convince all of our friends that OAR is the way to go. And the market will expect more, and expect more.
And you, Warner, will have shot yourselves in the foot. Because you took away the choice of the consumer to be able to purchase an OAR release. So, not as many people will buy your backstock of non-OAR ("MAR") titles, because they will become more sophisticated and, like the HTF patrons, will require their movies in widescreen.
And it will be your short-sighted strategy now...appeal to the masses at the cost of the more sophisticated consumer...that will have cost you more in the long run. You will save some pennies now by not investing in the OAR presentation on the same disc as the P&S. And in the long run you will lose the dollars.
Remember...it's YOUR loss. We, the consumers, will have *plenty* to choose from among the 11,881 titles already out, with more coming every day. And from studios who are far more friendly to the type of consumer I am (we are) than you are acting to be.
Thank you for listening to our input! We would be happy to support a studio like Warner, who supports us with great OAR releases...in __ALL__ categories of films!
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DAVE/Memphis
My 3-year-old enjoying Superman - The Movie in widescreen:

(Some of my DVD's are to the left side of the picture)

 

[Joseph S]

I'll be polite.
Note to Warner reps:
Just when we thought no company could ever do a worse job than MGM, along comes the folks at Warner Brothers North America.
You have infuriated the purchasers of your movies with a blatant disregard for the consumers that have made DVD what it is today. We own upwards of 900+DVDs. The average consumer wouldn't even rent that amount in 15 years. Your studies are flawed and you have lost all fans you may have had. People disliked the Snappers, but more so they hate being lied to. You told us that we would see Friends and South Park in season sets. However, that is not the case. All regions of the world have this, but Warner North America Region 1.
NO OAR=NO SALE!!!!!!!!
[Edited last by Joseph S on August 17, 2001 at 08:36 PM]

 

[BrettB]

Dear Warner Brothers,
A full 1/3 of the DVD's in my small but growing collection are WB titles.
I recently made a fairly expensive TV purchase for the sole purpose of better enjoying DVD's. Unfortunately, the only WB titles I will be enjoying are the ones which I already own.
Unfortunate for you, because you have lost a customer. Unfortunate for me, because you have forced me to abstain, not only from buying, but renting as well, ANY WB product.
It's not just one lost Wonka sale. It's also one more Citizen Kane left on the shelf.
I don't buy non-OAR titles from ANY studio.
And now I don't buy ANY titles from you (even the ones you treat properly).
snapper

pan & scan only

warner

 

[todd s]

Warner,
My 2 daughters (3 and 6 years old) watch movies in widescreen(even if available in pan & scan). They have never once asked why their are those black bars. They don't care. But, I do and I will not buy butchered movies in pan and scan. I do not own a 16x9 set. But, eventually I and most of America will. And then the same supposed survey respondents will be complaining about the black "side" bars on all pan & scan movies.
If people want pan & scan. Fine! let them buy the movie on vhs. Why, can't you do what most studios are doing. They put both versions on the same disc or offer 2 versions. I had both Wonka and Cats & Dogs on preorder. But, now I have cancelled them. I am sad, but I cannot support your decision. If you decide in the near future to release them in widescreen, my preorders will be reinstated. Please be aware I purchase over 15 dvd's a month and my money will go elsewhere.
Thanks for your time and please reconsider this shortsighted decision.
[Edited last by todd s on August 17, 2001 at 09:19 PM]

 

[Chris Biggs]

I am going to be purchasing a widescreen television in the next two months. I feel I am behind the times by not having one already, but spending that much money on a television is going to make me want to make it look as good as possible. If you continue to refuse to release films in their original aspect ratio, I will not buy from you again. It was bad enough that you did such crummy treatment with the Superman sequels. These recent issues only tell us that you are not willing treat with respect the customers who brought you where you are. I hope you get the message of everybody here. It's going to cost you otherwise.

 

[Kami]

Warner,
Give the people Pan & Scan if you must, but also give the rest of us a Widescreen option. So many other studios offer both options, why can't Warner? Snapper cases aside, I used to respect Warner as a DVD studio. Now I'm boycotting all of Warner Bros' products. You will not get any more of my business so long as you continue butchering your films. You would think that a studio would take pride in the films that they own the rights to...to be honest, I don't understand this decision at all. Hopefully you will all wake up and realize that film is an art, and chopping off 20-50% of it totally ruins the director's vision.
Adam Koebel

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

Warner,
I said in an earler post in this thread that I am fully prepared to just write you off. Believe me, I REALLY don't want to do that! But you are breaking my heart over this policy of yours! What your doing is just cruel, plain and simple!
I've been a lover of movies since I could walk (many are from your studio) and i'm 29 now, and ever since I discovered what widescreen was, I have never went back, and I won't. I will never ever buy a film unless the OAR is available to me, never. As someone has said in this thread, PLEASE don't do this! I have many of your wonderful movies on dvd, all in their OAR, and I love them all dearly, and your decisions as of late is killing me! I really wanted to see 'Cats and Dogs' and now it looks like I may never see it. I was going to buy it sight unseen, not now. And furthermore, I will not buy ANY titles from you if you continue with this, and I have advised all of my family members and friends not to buy any discs from you either, they heartily agreed.
So, in closing, I beg of you, please don't proceed with this blind course of action, PLEASE! If you want to include a full frame and pan n scan version of your films on your dvd's fine, just please include an OAR version as well like you used to, is this so difficult? That way all parties are happy, and I don't even mind the snapper cases!
Good day.
[Edited last by John Williamson on August 17, 2001 at 09:55 PM]
[Edited last by John Williamson on August 17, 2001 at 09:57 PM]
[Edited last by John Williamson on August 17, 2001 at 10:11 PM]

 

[Keith Mickunas]

I've been collecting DVDs for three and a half years now and have well over 200. In all I have one movie not in its OAR, and that will be the only one I will ever buy that way. You've long insulted us with the snapper case, which anyone can see the disadvantage of. Now you continue the insults with your butchering of your family films and the "best of" releases of different TV series. In fact, because of the way you treat the South Park releases, you're forcing me to spend extra money on a region free DVD player so I can attain them through other means.
I think what bothers me most is the way you've betrayed the enthusiasts. We here at HTF are a large part of why DVD is the success that it is. In the early days we were out there buying all the DVDs we could afford, and boycotting companies like Circuit City that tried to destroy DVD. Fox and Disney treat us right, you don't. That's sad. Warner used to be one of the studios that we could point to as doing the right thing, now you are nothing but a joke. You're destroying art for the sake of the almighty dollar, and anyone can see that long term its going to cost you more than its saving you now. More and more people will reject non-OAR DVDs, and you're alienating your most loyal companies now. How exactly does that help your revenue?
Face it, whatever reasons were used to make these recent decisions were flawed. Someone there is going to need to swallow their pride and accept the fact that they were wrong. Change this now, it will only hurt more the longer it goes on.