Sony's Blu-Ray accepts WM9 (1 Viewer)

[Brian-W]

I think everyone needs to get away from the Betamax comparisons for one reason: Betamax failed because Sony FAILED to license the technology to other consumer electronics companies.

This is clearly not the case here. And with practically every major electronics company backing Blu-Ray, it's premature to think HD-DVD actually has a shot.

 

[StephenP]

Almost every studio has stated they will not participate in a war, and will support only one dominant format (we shall see if they hold to this.) With blu-ray devices being produced and already available (in japan at least), I can't see hd-dvd having any real effect other than making the blu-ray group improve its specs prior to mass production and worldwide release.

 

[Nick Laslett]

The Playstation 3 will play Blu-Ray discs.

This should give the format a huge lift. There are 70+ million PS2s out there.

The console is due to hit the US in Fall '06.

 

[Grant H]

But, hasn't it been stated the X-Box 2 will use HD-DVD? There are a lot of X-Boxes out there too. Maybe Nintendo needs to jump in there with the swing vote.

It only makes sense for a game console to go with the higher-capacity disc though. Even if one format had an advantage as far as a video codec (and that doesn't look like it will be the case anymore) games aren't all video playback. The PS3 could be a keeper...if they get some decent controllers for it.

 

[Marc Colella]

For whatever it's worth, not only will HD-DVD players have a 6 month jump on Blu-Ray to the market, the XBOX2 (which rumors say will include HD-DVD) is slated to be released before the PS3.

 

[Grant H]

I don't know that a 6-month head start will have much of an effect on the decision of the movie studios. Dreamworks, Paramount, and Fox all took a while to come around AFTER DVD rolled out.

With the new codec news, I'm hoping the studios make the right decision and choose Blu-Ray. Why shoot yourself in the foot right away with a more limited storage capacity? Let's hope Blu-Ray picks some kick-ass audio formats too.

 

[Lee_eel]

I have some questions that i would really appreciate an answer to!

Will this new technology eliminate artefacts like pixelation, blocking and edge enhancement.

Can the new format cope better with elements like rain, fog, mist and skylines.

will the discs contain full bitrate D.T.S soundtracks.

will the picture be more comparable to the cinema.

I think this may come across as naive but what the heck!

 

[Gary->dee]

Thanks for the info, Joe.

My main concern: when designing the forthcoming PS3, I really hope Sony has an eye towards maintaining the Blu-Ray lens/laser emitting device. What I mean by that is if you own a PS2 and rely heavily on it for watching DVD movies like me(probably not a lot of people in this forum ), it eventually has a problem reading discs because of dust build-up on the lens. I tried using various DVD lens cleaning products and none of them worked. Last week I finally got frustrated and ripped off the little sticker that voids the warranty and took my PS2 apart to try and clean the lens because it simply wasn't able to read a lot of my discs any more(new ones too). I was able to get to the lens and wipe it with a Q-tip and some DVD lense cleaning sollution. Now my PS2 seems to be able to read discs better.

Sony needs to make the upcoming PS3 have a self-lens cleaning system or something installed or else after a couple of years of usage people might have to open'er up and perform their own maintenance.

 

[David Forbes]

This is far from certain. Neither ROM specification for either disc has been finalized yet, and the target dates have already shifted several times.

About the name Blu-Ray and HD-DVD...

Shane is right in that there are licensing fees that must be paid to use the name "DVD," which is why the Blu-Ray name was created for the next-generation high-capacity optical disc.

And please get rid of one misconception right now: Blu-Ray does not equal Sony. The Blu-Ray Disc Association is formed from more than a dozen companies, including Dell, HP, Matsushita, Pioneer, LG, Phillips, Samsung, Sharp, and others. Sony is a big player, yes, but they are not going this alone and this is not comparable to Beta.

The VC-1 compression scheme from Microsoft that both formats have adopted is not an application and players will not be "mini-PCs." VC-1 is just like MPEG-2 -- a compression algorithm. All Blu-Ray players will have to decode MPEG-2, MPEG-4, and VC-1.

I very much doubt you will see combo players. Audio specs have yet to be determined, as well as DRM. DRM may very well rule the day for the studios as to which they will back, and that may also accelerate the timeframe to launch so they can get "un-pirateable" movies out in circulation. But video-wise they are very similar -- Blu-Ray simply has greater capacity, and more memory (usually) wins, especially when you have heavyweights like Dell and HP in the Blu-Ray camp.

PlayStation 3 will definitely have Blu-Ray. The HD-DVD X-Box is still very much a rumor at this point and may never materialize.

 

[David Forbes]

It's doubtful DTS will survive onto either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Both formats will have to decode Dobly Digital, but both groups are also looking at lossless compression schemes like MLP (on the HD-DVD side) and lossless PCM (Blu-Ray). Both high-resolution lossless formats have at least eight channels of audio that are identical to the studio master -- right now DTS doesn't stand a chance (and shouldn't, as it would be notably inferior to either of these formats).

 

[Grant H]

Was DVD more comparable to the cinema than VHS? If material is authored properly, any HD format should look much more film-like. Of course, if you introduce the usual digital or video artifacts that show up in poor transfers, it will pull you out of the movie and remind you you're watching video. "Ooh, look how clearly I can see that edge enhancement in 1080P on my 65" HDTV!"

 

[Max Leung]

Does anyone know which format provides the highest sustained data transfer rate?

Microsoft's VC-1 is probably the best video codec right now for it's low transfer rate matched with high video quality.

However, add in lossless surround sound audio and Blu-Ray may not be fast enough, thus compromising audio or video (or both)...

 

[Lee_eel]

Grant H, thanks for that.

 

[Grant H]

You're welcome. Others here can give you much more detailed info, but that's just some general info I've picked up.

 

[Sean*O]

What are the odds that BOTH the PS3 and X-Box 2 will feature Blu-Ray drives?

If Microsoft is licensing they're CODEC for use with Blu Ray, they can't be too eager to help bury that format.

If they end up licensing that CODEC in both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, then MS does not really have a concern either way.

Will HD-DVD win the format war based on it's inclusion of the letters 'DVD'? People will still have to buy new players to play back a HD-DVD, and why couldn't the upcoming Blu-Ray players also backwardly support the MPEG-2 based discs of today?

 

[paul:hillsdon]

No, Microsoft's concern is with money.

 

[Lewis Besze]

Man that would piss off a few people here,but,as Grant posted it they do have a new lossless codec now,which should make it more "attractive" to the upcoming formats.
Personally I favor MLP ,but it isn't up to me.

 

[Brian-W]

DTS, Dolby Digital, and uncompressed PCM (96/24 max) are all supported audio formats on Blu-Ray. It's up to the studios to use them

 

[Dan Hitchman]

Hell, I'd go for 8 channel discrete uncompressed PCM at 24/96 any day of the week and twice on Sunday to DTS or Dolby Digital. I would assume DTS (full bitrate) and 640 kilobit Dolby Digital (both in the specs. so far) would be there to support backwards compatibility. Hopefully since uncompressed, high resolution PCM is in the specs. that's what the studio will use (or lossless compressed if extra space is needed).

The Blu-Ray consortium is supposedly looking at adding a lossless audio codec as well since with a 2:1 compression scheme it can halve the primary audio track's bitrate and probably add even more channels and higher resolution than that. Uncompressed 8 channel PCM at 24/96 takes just over 18 Megabits/sec.

To go with a tried and true lossless format like MLP (that's already in use by the studios to one degree or another) would be the best thing I believe so that it doesn't delay things even more. MLP can compress approx. 16 discrete channels with over 192 kHz sampling on each PCM channel.

According to some sources MPEG-4 AVC High Profile at 16 Megabits/sec equals a D-5 digital tape recording (of course, no one seems to be talking about what it would take for it to equal 2k or even 4k resolution masters). I don't know how VC-1 at that bitrate would compare.

Preliminary specs. for Blu-Ray call for such various resolutions as 1080p/24, 1080p/30, and 1080p/60 (probably source dependant). I just hope to goodness we can cut out all this interlace scanning crap once and for all.

ESPN has talked about shooting and archiving to 1080p/60 in order to get both ultra high video resolution, the benefits of progressive scanning, and super accurate motion capture.

According to one good, insider source from Panasonic (who shows up on the AVS Forum from time to time) these leaked specs. may be MINIMUM standards as Blu-Ray can theoretically hold upwards of 200 GB of data in their next version of manufacturing specs.

The buzz is that VC-1, MPEG-4 AVC High Profile, and MPEG-2 (more than likely for broadcast recording purposes) are now mandatory codecs for all Blu-Ray players. At what resolutions, component video levels, etc. I don't know.

Will it all be a bunch of hot air? I guess this month we're going to find out.

 

[Dan Rudolph]

I'm hoping it will support pretty much any resolution and framerate and have the ability to scale. That way NTSC, PAL and various computer movies could be put on without having to be re-scaled first and probably again at playback.