So there was no EE on TPM? (1 Viewer)

[Artur Meinild]

From the Van Ling chat:

VanLing: THX maintains that there was in fact NO edge enhancement used in the trasfer of Ep1. That being said, I've had a lot of discussions with Rick Dean, the head of THX's Digital Mastering Program, and he really wants to find out what people are perceiving to be EE and he want's to do a workshop here in Los Angeles where we go through the entire process of going from film to tape with an audience and showing that there is no edge enhancement being done, and to get to what people think they are seeing. I've suggested that when this workshop happens, that folks from all over get in on it. I've suggested they invite whomever's interested from HTF (and can afford to fly themselves out to LA).

So my big question is: What is it then? What is it on "The Phantom Menace" DVD that looks *exactly* like heavy edge enhancement, that has fooled many of us, including experts in-detail video analysis, but yet it isn't... Anyone care to enlighten me?
Take a look at Bjoerns analysis for details:
http://home.t-online.de/home/bjoern....TPM/TPM_01.htm
So if the workshop ever happens, be sure to report back to this board/thread, because I'm really curious about this strange phenomenon. Or maybe THX is just full of crap, who knows?

 

[Kyle McKnight]

Wow. That's great that they're "stepping up to the challenge." They're definitely standing by their product.

 

[Troy LaMont]

Well,
I didn't get a chance to participate in or read the transcript of Van Ling's chat, but the TPM/EE issue has bothered me since day one!
Obviously somebody's trying to pull the wool over somebody's eyes! TPM definitely has some type of anamoly going on and I know my vision is fine. Anyone here wear EE glasses?
I can't imagine why it is that the folks at Lucasfilm (and THX) don't see what so many other people are seeing. It was so blatantly obvious to me the moment I started watching the film and I thought it to be a major deterent from throughly enjoying it (but that doesn't stop me from watching all together).
Glad you posted that link Artur to Bjoern's site, because I think that's it in a nutshell.
Anyway, I'd fly to LA to take a look at the process and to examine the film up close and personal with someone from THX/Lucasfilm so I can walk up to the screen and point out what it is they are supposed to be seeing.
Troy

 

[WilliamJulien]

On thing is obvious, Van Ling has never watched The Phantom Menace on DVD.

 

[Tom-G]

Just a quick question before I head over to Bjoerns' site...is edge enhancement noticeable on analog RPTVs?

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Whether or not there 'is edge enhancement being done', there are enhanced edges on many titles including TPM, and it is hurting picture quality substantially. When trailers and/or overseas versions have much less 'enhancement', something is going on!
Maybe somebody is 'trying too hard' on the transfers for the R1 release copies. :rolleyes
Why is it that 'quick and dirty' transfers like those used on Academy screeners do not have enhanced edges, then when the 'official' disc comes out, the edges are enhanced (see Cast Away).

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Just a quick question before I head over to Bjoerns' site...is edge enhancement noticeable on analog RPTVs?

If the set is set up well, absolutely. With correct sharpness and SVM settings, edge enhancment is noticable on my 'living room' TV, a 27" Wega!

 

[Artur Meinild]

Just a quick question before I head over to Bjoerns' site...is edge enhancement noticeable on analog RPTVs?

Indeed so! I can clearly see EE on my 32" widescreen TV, it's absoloutely visible on both tube and RPTV's!

 

[Leo Kerr]

To join the bandwagon, both the plain tabletop player I use onto a 20" direct view shows something that looks suspiciously like edge enhancement, and on the PC drive playing onto a 20" progressive monitor.
Now, maybe the machine Mr. Ling was playing on didn't have an Edge Enhncement knob.
Maybe it had a Sharpness knob.

 

[Carlo_M]

Before you all start questioning the credentials of a man who works in the industry, maybe we should give this a chance to happen (the workshop).

People have started using EE as a catch-all phrase for every halo they see on their sets. There could be multiple reasons these appear. TPM was done almost entirely digitally. Perhaps the artifacts were introduced there and the film to dvd transfer just brought it over as is? Or any other number of theories.

There are halos there, no doubt about it. But can you definitively swear on all you hold dear that you're absolutely sure it's EE? I can't.

Let's give this a chance before we start slamming people who, quite frankly, know more about the process than 99% of us.

 

[Clinton McClure]

Anyone here wear EE glasses?

I guess you could say I do. When I take off my glasses, everything blurs so there are no hard edges anywhere.
Whatever the reason for EE, it had to be something done during the DVD mastering because I do not see halos like that on my LD version.

 

[Artur Meinild]

Let's give this a chance before we start slamming people who, quite frankly, know more about the process than 99% of us.

I'm very eager to hear the results of this workshop, and I hope they give us a good explanation. I still think they screwed this transfer, and my faith in the THX brand has dropped a lot with this DVD release.

 

[Gruson]

When it aired on FOX in 480p a couple of months ago, there was a lot less EE and my LD also has less.

THX is full of shit, that is EE. I still believe the LD sounds better too.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Both the LD and the DVD are sourced from the same High-Def master. It has been theorized that some compression tools introduce halos, but if the LD lacks halos, than THX is not lying.

 

[Carlo_M]

No, but it looks exactly like EE, and the R2 copy has much lesser ringing. I don't care how the rings came into be, but the result is definately ENHANCED EDGES in the picture, hence the term EDGE ENHANCEMENT

Ah, herein lies the problem.

Edge Enhancement, as they are talking about it, as a process used at mastering that introduces these halos. If the halos are introduced by some other process (like what Jeff Kleist wrote) you are seeing enhanced edges but NOT Edge Enhancement as the people who author DVDs know it.

They are NOT the same in this context, and all the people here saying "THX is full of..." and "Van Ling doesn't know..." are really talking out of their...

 

[Mark Zimmer]

As was mentioned in part of the lengthy EE thread on TPM some months ago, apparently some compression machines (I think Sony was mentioned) will add what appears to be EE without the operator doing anything. Thus, Van Ling could be correct that no one *added* any edge enhancement, but it could also be true at the same time that there is tons of EE present on the disc.

For those theorizing "it's part of the movie", no one saw it on the big screen, and it isn't visible in the trailer portions of the same scenes.

Regardless of what happens, it looks like shit and the studios ought to take action to prevent it happening. If the machines are adding it automatically, recalibrate them or junk them. It's utterly unacceptable. I don't care what you call it.

 

[Dan Brecher]

Both the LD and the DVD are sourced from the same High-Def master.

You sure, Jeff? I didn't think they were... Especially since the DVD is a different cut of the movie.

Dan (UK)

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Back when the disc was announced, I think it was Bill Hunt who asked if they did a new transfer,or were going to use the digital master for the DLP projection. They replied that they wanted it to look like film, and did a top-notch high-def back at the initial video release.

 

[Tom Ryan]

On thing is obvious, Van Ling has never watched The Phantom Menace on DVD.

This is just disrespectful, and unneccesary. Ling has done a lot of great DVDs, and he doesn't need to be insulted. I doubt that he's just making this up or is inept. It may turn out after all that there IS no EE, but the halo effect is from something else.

-Tom

 

[Artur Meinild]

It is important to notice that I personally hold *nothing* against Van Ling on this matter. I'm certain he's speaking the truth, besides he wasn't at all involved with the video transfer.

However, I blame THX/Lucasfilm for putting out a transfer below the standard we are expecting for a high-profile release like Star Wars.