So, I finally started watching Battlestar Galactica (1 Viewer)

[ATimson]

Originally Posted by RickER


I will have to remember to skip the boxing episode when i get season 3 on Blu-ray. Makes my blood pressure rise thinking how bad it was.

Supposedly, the extended version is a lot better.


I haven't worked up the nerve to try it.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Those of you listening to the negativity about that

particular episode --- it may be well deserved -- but

just remember some of us think it's one of the best

episodes of the series.

I am now halfway through Season 4.5. I expect to

be done with the entire show tomorrow or later this week.


So far, the season is dragging its feet. It seems as

if all the major conflicts have been resolved. Hope that

it will be able to deliver some of the emotional impact

of the former seasons.


Where I am at:




Zarek and Gaelen have agreed to team up and form

a mutiny.

 

[Paul_Scott]

Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein 60#post_3702596

I am now halfway through Season 4.5. I expect to

be done with the entire show tomorrow or later this week.

Four seasons in just over 3 weeks? Pretty intense Ron.


FWIW- I remember not liking the boxing ep all that much, but I can't exactly remember why. It could just be because I wasted about 10 minutes watching the extended version directly after the broadcast cut until I finally realized what was going on.

Hope that it will be able to deliver some of the emotional impact

of the former seasons.

I have problems with the wrap up (which includes creative decisions initiated from the end of season 3 on), but the one level the finale, and last 1/2 season, ultimately did work for me was the emotional one. Of course after I gave it a little time to sink in and I started to reflect on it...


I'm looking forward to your summation.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Today is a big day. Made it up to the final 2-part finale,

Daybreak, which I will watch this morning.


Season 4 has been pretty dull for the most part -- not really

living up to the rollercoaster rode of the previous 3 seasons.

However, overall, I am still very much enjoying the show.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

73 episodes in 23 days


This morning I finished watching the final three
episodes of Battlestar Galactica.


The first thing I wanted to do was go back and

read the conversations many of you had in our

HDTV programming forum while the show was

being broadcast. Then, thinking about it further,

I did not want to be influenced by anyone's opinion

when given mine. So here it is...


I went from being extremely high on this show

into a slow fizzle towards the end of Season 4.


I don't know how to explain it other than I thought

the show got a bit soft. Let me put the rest of my

thoughts in spoiler form...




By season four the humans and cylons were

joining forces. The show turned vastly away from

confrontation between two enemies into a storyline

about faith and Kara leading the surviving humans

to their new home.






To be fair, I don't think I could have thought up a

better storyline. It seemed like the most natural

progression the show could take. I'm just not very

happy with the final few episodes -- especially with

the finale coming off as being a little too corny.




I have to say, I was fooled by who the final

Cylon would be -- but very disappointed that it

was Ellen -- my least favorite of all the characters.










Overall, I would rate the experience of watching

this show very high. For the first three seasons

I think the show was unstoppable. As the show

progressed through its final Season (4 - 4.5) it

seemed as if the writers were running out of

ideas what to do with these characters.

As a side note...


Being a huge Seinfeld fan I was surprised to

find two big references to the show within BSG.

The first involves dialogue concerning "the swirl."

The second is the name given to a pilot -- Costanza

(referenced in Season 4).

 

[Jonathan Peterson]

I have to say I agree with you Ron about the last season. Like you my wife and I watched the entire series in a short period of time once it had finished it's run on TV. I felt the mini-series and the 1st and 2nd seasons were outstanding. Once they arrived at new Caprica for me at least the show lost it's way. Also they made a much bigger deal out of the five cylon models and the big "One will be revealed" quote. When they did reveal the 5th one, I thought, big deal. The only show I really liked was when they put Balter on trial. Can't remember which season that was, I think it was late in the 3rd. I felt that was one of the best in the whole series. The final episode I agree was a bit corny but it still hit enough emotional highs for it to be a satisfying conclusion.


Overall the new series was a much better show but I still find the original to be more fun. ;o)~

 

[Will_B]

I too felt like in the last season the air went out of the tires. I appreciated that they changed the visual effects -- suddenly space battles were all gold and red -- but the storyline itself did not pull together. I think there was the writers strike at some point around the last season? Or maybe just before? I've thought perhaps the problem was that this interrupted the writers' train of thought so badly that it couldn't quite recover.


I liked the


I liked the...

mutiny ...subplot, but the larger plot about the search for Earth got convoluted, to say the least.

I still display the action figures, but mainly on the strength of the mini-series and the first couple seasons.



I hear that The Plan (a tv movie) tried to undo the damage, by explaining the impossibilities (like how the Final Five just happened to be exactly the same age as their doppelgangers, and other plots-elements-that-went-nowhere.) But the last season of the show put me off the show so much that I haven't yet bought The Plan.


I think also one has to fault the showrunner for his passion for relying on things he does not himself understand. Let me try to explain that better. He talks in one of his podcasts about how he wanted a pigeon fluttering around inside a house in the final episode. He explained that he did not know what it meant, but that he dreamed about it or something, and he therefore figured it must have meaning -- so he put it in. Even though it might not in fact have any meaning. As a filmmaker, he's irresponsible for depending on the psychological concept that "any thing will lead to everything, eventually" (the fact that a therapist can ask a patient about nearly anything, and it will eventually lead to the root issues). It's sloppy, and it is conceited (to believe that any unexplained imagery from one's own imagination is inherently so wonderful and deep that it deserves to be used).


(And similarly, the best image of the series -- the Opera House -- was not paid off. Season upon season of build-up of the Opera House, and it turns out to be piffle. Irresponsible not to end that much more powerfully!)


Sloppy is probably the best word for the last season. Too many Earth ideas all flying around, none of them making much headway before the show is over. And the whole Final Five claptrap was just sad.


(The "Final Five" on Battlestar Galactica, and the "Jacob & the Man In Black" on Lost, are very similar in my book in being final-season waste-of-times. Maybe showrunners just don't know how to write last acts anymore.)

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Jonathan and Will,


Enjoyed reading your thoughts.


I was actually a little concerned about posting mine.
I know how many fans there are of BSG and I didn't

want to post anything negative that would spark controversy.


It's actually good to hear that there are others who
share a similar opinion of the show.


Warning: There may be some spoilers here


I think BSG fell into the same trap as LOST. You

begin with a great series and insert all these plots

and ideas that you hope get resolved. However, as

the show goes on for a few years you realize that

you are not going to be able to tie up all the loose

ends.

I watched a bit of the documentary on the last

disc of Season 4.5 called, They Have A Plan.
The show's producer clearly states that they

tacked "They have a plan" onto the opening

credits not really knowing what that plan was.
Some seasons later they had to insert a scene

with Cavil telling the other skin jobs that "there is no plan."


I think Jonathan expressed a lot of the same

concerns I had about the writers becoming a little

full of themselves with all these visions they inserted

in the show. The opera house is the perfect example

of that. At first we are led to believe there is something

very meaningful about the opera house. At the end

of Season 4.5, perhaps the very last episode, it seems

that the writers had to pull something out of their hats

to play that vision out and quite frankly, it did not work.


The final episode of the season is hampered down

by New Caprica flashbacks (Rosilyn in the fountain and

Kara meeting Lee) that really did not belong there. It

was as if the writers were lifting something out of the

LOST textbook by intertwining past character history

with present storytelling. It just didn't work in this case.


Though this criticism may seem harsh, overall I think

BSG is an amazing show. Read many of my initial posts

over the past 2 pages of this thread and you can see
that I had plenty of awe-inspiring moments during my

journey. I just wish they could have kept that magic

in motion for all 4 seasons.

 

[Sam Favate]

I also found many similarities to Lost, particularly in the way both shows ended.


Warning: Spoilers for Lost and BSG here.


Both shows ended with too much reliance on faith. What drew us in to these stories in the first place was the dedication to realism and the intensity of the plots and the way they unfolded in dramatic, yet logical fashion. In end, in both cases, we're left with several things that are not explained in any way other than some quasi-spiritual explanation. Even The Force had a more detailed and easily explained construction (midiclorians notwithstanding). It almost seems as though the writers didn't want to use a scientific explanation simply to keep the audience guessing - because we had already supposed that Baltar's visions of Six could be a chip implanted in his head or that he was a Cylon. It's a great trick when you can keep the audience guessing, but that shouldn't be more important than credibility. (Why do angels appear to Baltar? He's the Betrayer of Humanity, largely responsible for the death of billions because of his ego and lust. Why does God chose to speak to him through Angel Six? Similarly, there's no one on Lost who wasn't betrayed by Ben, and scores of people who were personally killed by Ben, and Ben constantly switches sides during the show and even during the finale, ultimately "rewarded" with that which he wanted - some control over the island.)


Nevertheless, I ultimately liked the BSG finale, and found it as satisfying - if not more so - than Lost's. BSG earned its place among the very finest shows ever on TV, and certainly among the top tier of science fiction shows. FWIW, I think the BSG writers kept it together more than the Lost writers did, although I enjoyed both shows.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

I think we can agree -- especially with the case of

LOST -- that the writers begin a series with a concept.

They never imagine a show will last 4-6 seasons so

there is no roadmap at day one for the complete layout

of what is to come.


For that reason the writers pretty much make things

up as they go along hoping that somewhere down the

line they can tie everything together.


It rarely works perfectly if ever at all.

 

[ATimson]

Originally Posted by Will_B

I think there was the writers strike at some point around the last season? Or maybe just before?

The last episode shot before the writers' strike was 411 (the first episode of "season 4.5").


I agree with the rest of you above - that when there's no plan, it usually shows. Good writers can usually wing it anyways - usually by plotting a season at a time, instead of trying to stretch threads over an entire series. (See Buffy, or Farscape, or modern Doctor Who.)

 

[TravisR]

I don't think there's any comparison between Lost and Battlestar Galactica and what each one made up as they went along. The writers at BSG didn't know who the final 5 cylons were. There's no way that Lost wouldn't have known something like that as soon as they brought it up. I'm not knocking BSG for that either (I thought the final 5 storyline played out very well) but it's apples and oranges.

 

[Sam Favate]

I have to disagree. I think both shows relied on faith too much in their conclusions to storylines and mysteries set up along the way, and in both cases, that is what fans have been dissatisfied with, in large part.

 

[TravisR]

That's an element that some Lost fans may have been dissapointed in but I'm not really talking about that (and I still can't believe anyone wanted some type of silly fake scientific explanation for the show). That being said, the science vs. faith element of Lost was set up in the first season and was always a main theme of the series. While you may think that they relied on it too much for their ending, faith certainly didn't come out of nowhere for the last season. On the other hand, the ending of BSG seemed to come out of left field for me. Once again, I'm not knocking it, I just think a faith based ending fit much better on Lost than BSG.

 

[Walter Kittel]

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]and I still can't believe anyone wanted some type of silly fake scientific explanation for the show[/COLOR]

You are right about that. I wanted a coherent, rational scientific explanation for a show that presented many scientific mysteries throughout its run time, including a presumably science based alternate reality in its final season that ultimately felt like a big lie.


For this fan, of both shows, BSG's final season was much more satisfying, especially when it was all said and done. The spiritual elements were clearly established in earlier seasons and consequently the finale felt aesthetically correct, at least for me.


Just my $0.02.


- Walter.

 

[TravisR]

Originally Posted by Walter Kittel
You are right about that. I wanted a coherent, rational scientific explanation for a show that presented many scientific mysteries throughout its run time, including a presumably science based alternate reality in its final season that ultimately felt like a big lie.

This is a topic for a Lost thread but, like I said, I don't understand why anyone would want that. To me, a fake science answer (and what was presented could only be explained by fake science because they've shown many things that are impossible) is way more goofy than a faith based one. Faith requires you to say to hell with it and accept some things, fake science is just fake science.

 

[ATimson]

Originally Posted by TravisR

I don't think there's any comparison between Lost and Battlestar Galactica and what each one made up as they went along. The writers at BSG didn't know who the final 5 cylons were. There's no way that Lost wouldn't have known something like that as soon as they brought it up.

Smoke monster?

 

[TravisR]

Originally Posted by ATimson
Smoke monster?

I think they've always known the very basics of the smoke monster but even if they didn't, they didn't just take a character and arbitrarily decide that after a few years of them being human that they had actually been the smoke monster the whole time. BSG more or less threw a dart at a board to figure out who the final 5 were. Once again, I think that worked fine for them. I'm just saying that there's no comparison between what was made up on the fly of BSG and Lost.

 

[Will_B]

***LOST spoilers and some Battlestar spoilers ahead.***



I didn't mind the faith elements of either show -- in fact I LOVED the "faith" ending of LOST, I thought it was really clever to say "all those Dharma Initiative puzzles? They aren't the point. The point is 'live together or die alone'". And I didn't mind it on Galactica. Anyway...


But the comparison between the two shows final seasons, to me, is more about how each series felt it couldn't rely on the plot elements that had been established thus far, and created a new challenge that ended up taking up too much screen time at the expense of long-running ideas.


For Battlestar Galactica, the new challenge invented for the last season was the Final Five. (When they could instead have simply found Earth and dealt with whatever problem or situation they may have found in that...no spoilers here, just saying that could have been really compelling in itself. And without the Final Five burning up screen time, they could have wrapped up the Opera House and Baltar and Six and Adam and Roslyn and, well, just everything else much more freely.) (Plus, don't all sci-fi fans love



ruins? I was miffed they spent only like 10 minutes of screen time on the ruined Earth.



For Lost, the new challenge was Jacob and the Man in Black trying to snuff the Losties, despite the fact that for the all the previous seasons they hadn't been targeted at all. (When they could instead have simply had the Whitmore plot continue... a plot they undid completely with a brief line about how Whitmore had a complete change of heart, deus ex machina style.)


And that is what I mean about showrunners not knowing how to write a last act. They felt the need to invent something new -- which is usually what one needs for any season except the last season!

 

[hampsteadbandit]

I have to say I agree with you Ron about the last season. Like you my wife and I watched the entire series in a short period of time once it had finished it's run on TV. I felt the mini-series and the 1st and 2nd seasons were outstanding. Once they arrived at new Caprica for me at least the show lost it's way.


completely agree


I caught wind of the re-imagined BSG half way through Season 2 after stumbling across an episode on a cable TV channel whilst flipping channels, and after being blown away by the episode, which took me back to my childhood watching the original BSG and Buck Rogers on ITV in England


I HAD to know more, and was pleasantly surprised to purchase the DVD of the BSG Mini Series and Season 1, and soon Season 2


BSG then became an obsession, but as the show progressed, it lost the early promise of the Mini-Series and the first 2 seasons; and really lost its way, with the final "seasons" being quite weak, especially the ending


when you re-watch the mini series, and season 1 / 2, they are stunning, and set a standard which unfortunately the later seasons and extra elements like "The Plan" could not hope to match


"Razor" was actually very good though, and I have thoroughly enjoyed spin-off "Caprica" so far!